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Thread: Hell strikes once again, New built motor rises with problems

  1. #1
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    Hell strikes once again, New built motor rises with problems

    So about a week ago I finished installing my motor after having it bored, new pistons and basically everything else done to it. Brought it from a 2.5 to a 2.8ltr and used a cometic headgasket to lower compression. basically I've had nothing but problems since the first start up. Car runs great, drives fine, but it has began to burn oil, leak oil on both sides of the engine block which seems to be from the headgasket, oil is present in the coolant, and when i checked the spark plug wells I found oil covering all of them. All this from a new motor which hasn't even seen any real boost or WOT yet. If you guys could give me any insight on what you might think I am seeing I would appreciate it. I couldn't have a clue as to what is going on even.

  2. #2
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    Oil leaks on both sides of the block and in the plug holes points to the valve cover gasket.
    97 M3 - 8.94@164 - 8 sec street machine, all BMW driveline, factory ECU
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  3. #3
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    yeah but I just replaced those gaskets last spring. So i don't see how they could be bad already. Not to mention I seem to be burning oil or coolant sometimes.

  4. #4
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    i'm going to pull of this cometic headgasket and lay it down across the train tracks behind my garage. I think it's the biggest peice of junk designed. I don't understand why a thicker headgasket won't seal properly with 75ft lbs of torque on my arp headstuds. This is an extremely huge setback.

  5. #5
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    Where did you buy your HG from? I havent heard of any issues with the cometic HGs..

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron325iT
    yeah but I just replaced those gaskets last spring. So i don't see how they could be bad already. Not to mention I seem to be burning oil or coolant sometimes.
    When doing a full rebuild you should never re-use gaskets! I just had a problem with re-using my old valve cover gasket similar to yours -- spewed oil at about 1qt ~ 50-100 miles.

  7. #7
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    well i'll get a new valve cover gasket set and change those, but thats not what is causing the oil to burn, and the leaking all down the intake side of the motor. It's just tuff diagnosing a problem like this when the car runs good but still smokes. it looks like this upcoming week is going to be a tough one between work school and this PITA

    bought my cometic gasket from Turbochargerdynamics, he's a forum sponser i think.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron325iT
    i'm going to pull of this cometic headgasket and lay it down across the train tracks behind my garage. I think it's the biggest peice of junk designed. I don't understand why a thicker headgasket won't seal properly with 75ft lbs of torque on my arp headstuds. This is an extremely huge setback.
    As far as Cometic HG's go, It is all in the prep/torque. Your block and head need to be ground to a certain finish to ensure the best seal. You also need to follow the proper torque instructions as per ARP's web site:
    http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechInstall.html

    Did you torque and undo the head studs 5 times before a final assembly using an old gasket?

    I have used many cometic gaskets with zero failures so far. As long as everything is installed correctly they are great.
    97 M3 - 8.94@164 - 8 sec street machine, all BMW driveline, factory ECU
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  9. #9
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    ///3.0 TURBO 325

    oil leak

    My valve cover gasket did the same thing. Your valve cover may we warped. I had to buy a new cover.
    Matthew
    BMW 325i
    AA Stage II Turbo ///M3 3.0 Engine AA Stage II Clutch/Flywheel, AA custom turbo exhaust

  10. #10
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    One more huge thing, How is your breather system set up? Any chance you are pressurizing the crankcase? If so, you will shoot oil out of any seal, cover, cap, etc that oil can squeak out of.
    97 M3 - 8.94@164 - 8 sec street machine, all BMW driveline, factory ECU
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    BMW SOB's turbo E30 - 8.72@158.39
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike radowski
    As far as Cometic HG's go, It is all in the prep/torque. Your block and head need to be ground to a certain finish to ensure the best seal. You also need to follow the proper torque instructions as per ARP's web site:
    http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechInstall.html

    Did you torque and undo the head studs 5 times before a final assembly using an old gasket?

    I have used many cometic gaskets with zero failures so far. As long as everything is installed correctly they are great.

    Mike,

    You know anyone who will check out my head and block? Also, I am looking to get the block and head hot tanked to clean them... any place in the PA/NJ area?

  12. #12
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    i have the valve cover breather going back into the intake pipe right on the throttle body. large hose goes from black connection near front of fuel rail on the valve cover to pipe that is connected to the throttle body after the intercooler, and the small hose is going back to the ICV hose under the intake. this is the correct way of doing it right?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron325iT
    i'm going to pull of this cometic headgasket and lay it down across the train tracks behind my garage. I think it's the biggest peice of junk designed. I don't understand why a thicker headgasket won't seal properly with 75ft lbs of torque on my arp headstuds. This is an extremely huge setback.
    Before you blame the hardware, maybe you should blame the installer. 75ft-lbs is TOO MUCH. Over-torqueing the head fasteners can warp the block's deck surface and cause sealing issues just like you have.

    More is NOT better folks
    Nick Glantzis
    2005 330i ZHP auto with Technique Tuning turbo kit (currently For Sale)

  14. #14
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    Aaron, is the MLS the new style 7-layer and did you copperspray it? If youre pulling the head off, get a machine shop to machine it straight-

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    1995 M3 turbo - GT35R , 55#inj , SPA manifold , AA tune SOLD

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron325iT
    i have the valve cover breather going back into the intake pipe right on the throttle body. large hose goes from black connection near front of fuel rail on the valve cover to pipe that is connected to the throttle body after the intercooler, and the small hose is going back to the ICV hose under the intake. this is the correct way of doing it right?
    The correct way to pressurize the crankcase as soon as the motor makes any boost, blowing oil out of any gasket, seal, dipstick, etc. That solves one of your mysteries.

    At the very least just run a breather element right on the VC tube, or if you want to recirculate the blowby, run the large VC tube to a puke tank, and run a hose from the puke tank to the turbo inlet. I don't like to recirculate the blowby since oil in the charge piping/intake air can help cause detonation.
    97 M3 - 8.94@164 - 8 sec street machine, all BMW driveline, factory ECU
    02 M3 - 9.74@145 - Maximum PSI stage 2 turbo kit, stock motor, factory ECU
    16 M3 - 9.3@151 - Built motor/twins
    15 M3 - 9.2@162 - Built motor/single turbo/Ecutek
    BMW SOB's turbo E30 - 8.72@158.39
    follow our latest builds and upcoming events! - facebook.com/maximumpsi - instagram.com/maximumpsi

  16. #16
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    I've always known not to use a breather filter on the valve cover with a turbocharged engine. My intercooler pipe inlet that I routed the valve cover breather is sending pressure back into my valve cover you say? so I'm assuming I would have to plug that and run a vacuum hose from the valve cover to the piping between the turbo inlet and the air filter correct? Also I was never given propper installation instructions except for the little sheet that came with the cometic gasket which recommended dry installation only, and arp's little blue card that said to follow manufacturers torque steps for headbolts. Would you say I did the install wrong then? because when I originally installed them to 60ft lbs in 3 stages, after I started and ran the car and let it cool they were only at 35ft lbs when i re-torqued them. Which leads to the question would the headgasket be reuseable still?

  17. #17
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    George (ICS), Nick G and -- most recently -- Caldweb have all posted about installing the Cometic MLS. Despite Cometic's instructions, consensus is the 3 sprayed-on coatings of copper sealant is important.

    And yes, you can re-install/torque the headgasket provided it's not damaged.

    Neil
    MDORPHN - 2011 Alpine White 1 Series M Coupe w/stuff

  18. #18
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    Possible problems.

    1. Torqued too much 75lbs. Ouch.
    2. Didnt follow torque sequence.
    3. Didnt use copper spray.
    4. Gasket may not be seated properly.
    5. May have a warped head from over-torquing.
    6. Crankcase is being pressurized.


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  19. #19
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    Oil leaks on both sides of the motor?

    1) check on the intake side of the cylinder head...there is a little black sensor that plugs into the head that reads cam timing. If the this sensor was replaced without the O ring it will leak bad on the intake side.

    2) Check on the exhaust side of the cylinder head where the tensioner places the pressure to the guide rail. If this is not tight it will leak oil on the exhaust side.

    3) oil in the cylinder hole for the spark plugs is the valve cover gasket.

    4) For the Cometic MLS HG You should have had the block decked and cylinder head machined for an MLS HG < 50 microns IIRC It will look like a mirror finish.
    a) Coat the HG with copper seal. I use several.
    b) Torque the studs 65-70lbs I do sm increments of about 15,30,45,60,70 letting it settle about 10-30 minutes between torquing.
    c) once the car is ready to run... I let it idle without coolant until motor is warm then shut it down and let it cool.
    D) cometic HG can be re used.
    Last edited by Bassmaster; 03-17-2006 at 01:17 AM.
    1995 M3 Custom Turbo, Turbonetics T66 BB,72lb injectors, Sias Tuning PnP Tec 3, IBM T30,PLX M250 wideband O2 sensor,Blitz SBC-iD Built low CR 8.5:1 motor CP Pistons,ARP head & main studs,Metric Mechanic HP Valve springs,walbro 255hp,BMP FPR,Modified fuel rail # 6 SS feed line,3in ss custom magnaflow exhaust,Lower level turbo intake,AA six puck disc, Spec Stage IV PP ,AA differential bracket,AA strut tower brace,UUC UD Pullies,UUC short shifter,UUC tranny mounts,UUC clutch stop,Fluidyne HP radiator.M3 LTW wheels Est..1001 rwhp!

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  20. #20
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    awsome, well I don't have the option to have the block decked now that it is in the car, and my headgasket is flat well within limits. I will check again when i take it back off with the straight edge and feeler gauges, but I know there have to be ways to smooth out the surfaces some. Have you guys ever used scotch pads to buff the surfaces clear?

    also I bought a new allenhead bolt, washer, and O-ring for the cam sensor when I thought that was leaking. I'm gonna go with the bad routing of the valve cover vacuum hoses, and improperly sealed headgasket. So off comes the head again.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron325iT
    awsome, well I don't have the option to have the block decked now that it is in the car, and my headgasket is flat well within limits. I will check again when i take it back off with the straight edge and feeler gauges, but I know there have to be ways to smooth out the surfaces some. Have you guys ever used scotch pads to buff the surfaces clear?

    also I bought a new allenhead bolt, washer, and O-ring for the cam sensor when I thought that was leaking. I'm gonna go with the bad routing of the valve cover vacuum hoses, and improperly sealed headgasket. So off comes the head again.
    I feel your pain...Im such an unfortunate expert at removing the head I think the last time I removed it in 2hrs flat, turbo components and all. I had the repeated leaking HG symptoms . I've done it at least 5 times. Changing MLS gaskets, to stock gasket to new cylinder head Gobs of KW block seal (worked for a while)etc....after all that time and pain...come to find out it was my block was causing the coolant leaks, with no visible signs I change to a different 3.2 block and have not had a HG problems since.
    1995 M3 Custom Turbo, Turbonetics T66 BB,72lb injectors, Sias Tuning PnP Tec 3, IBM T30,PLX M250 wideband O2 sensor,Blitz SBC-iD Built low CR 8.5:1 motor CP Pistons,ARP head & main studs,Metric Mechanic HP Valve springs,walbro 255hp,BMP FPR,Modified fuel rail # 6 SS feed line,3in ss custom magnaflow exhaust,Lower level turbo intake,AA six puck disc, Spec Stage IV PP ,AA differential bracket,AA strut tower brace,UUC UD Pullies,UUC short shifter,UUC tranny mounts,UUC clutch stop,Fluidyne HP radiator.M3 LTW wheels Est..1001 rwhp!

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  22. #22
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    Seriously 75 ft-lbs is too much for a bmw engine? wow thats crazy, seeing as how we snapped several wrenches trying to get my sr20det heads off in highschool shop, and the manual required 115 ft lbs to re-tighten them... i think there were only 6 studs though, how many does the I6 bmw engine have? ive never worked on one yet... just seems odd to me!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotimportknight
    . i think there were only 6 studs though, how many does the I6 bmw engine have? ive never worked on one yet... just seems odd to me!
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  24. #24
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    Makes sense... double the studs, half the torque requirements about... got ya! thanks for the info.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron325iT
    i have the valve cover breather going back into the intake pipe right on the throttle body. large hose goes from black connection near front of fuel rail on the valve cover to pipe that is connected to the throttle body after the intercooler, and the small hose is going back to the ICV hose under the intake. this is the correct way of doing it right?
    Whoa whoa whoa

    Your valve cover should NEVER see boost!!!! It sounds like you have the valve cover breather piped to something after the turbo! That's a huge no-no!!!

    Those gaskets are designed to opporate under vacuum, you'll pop a good amount of gaskets by throwing boost in them. You need to pipe your valve cover breather BEFORE the turbo.

    Start snapping photos...

    Also, if you did buy your products from Turbochargingdynamics, then talk to them directly. They will give you 100% support on all products.


    edit: Doh! RTFT Tj! :p Looks like it's been covered. This is a quick fix. But you did say you have oil in the coolant, is it alot? Or is it just some oil the dripped into the coolant passages when you lifted up the head? But what these guys are saying is on the dot! :thumbsup
    Last edited by tjn182; 03-17-2006 at 09:21 AM.

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