Followed BMW Lifetime ATF recommendation, did zero maintenance and auto trans. is fine.
Followed BMW Lifetime ATF recommendation, did zero maintenance and auto trans. failed.
Did an ATF drain/refill w/ BMW specified ATF fluid and auto trans. is fine.
Did an ATF drain/refill w/ BMW specified ATF fluid and auto trans. failed.
Did an ATF drain/refill w/ non-BMW ATF and auto trans is fine.
Did an ATF drain/refill w/ non-BMW ATF and auto trans failed.
yeah...i think that a flush could definitely do some damage. Atleast thats what i hear...but i think if one was to just remove the pan and drain as much as possible and refill...that cant do much harm!!!
Didn't do much of a flush but it's about 2 weeks after I drained and re-filtered/gasketed and refilled fluid... runs fine. How will I know if it fails? Will I skeeter off the interstate at 75 when the center of the car explodes or...
Nice thread/poll. Thanks for the info, I was actually curious about this issue as well. Running 95 318i at 65k with no tranny service and atf flush. Still running good
Whats very odd about Automatic E46 m3's is very weird..they're hard to find though actually but there's a guy on E46fanatics.com that ran like 12 flat or low 12s with automatic E46 m3, well of course its not stock but still thats pretty insane to see on a bmw hehe.
SINBIMMERS
automatic e46 m3??? i'm guessing you mean SMG-II? if so, that's not an automatic at all. it's a manual transmission with electro-hydraulics controlling the clutch via a computer. no torque converter, no planetary gears, nothing like an automatic transmission.Originally Posted by trBo328iKevo
anyone else to add to this?? excellent thread!!!
This past Saturday, I dropped the pan for the first time for mymodel year, car, mileage when you did the ATF change, and current mileage.
98, 528i at 100k miles. Even up until this point, the car had been
running and shfting in good condition. No signs of any tranny
issues at all. I just decided to do it since the car was almost 100k and
I wanted to have an assurance that my tranny will have a life
longer than just 100k. I wanted it to enjoy so many more miles
ahead.
When the pan was dropped, it said on the bottom of tranny pan "NO TOP-OFF OR REPLACING OF TRANSMISSION FLUID-LIFETIME FILL". We gave it a good ol' :fartman and proceeded on to taking the gasket and
filter and so forth. The fluid inside was really so dark, it was almost black. We didn't find any gunks of metal debris or
anything like that. Just dark luid was all that was poured out. Drained and refilled about 4.4. qts of Dexron III (BMW approved fluid for GM tranny on 98 528i).
When the work was completed, it didn't seem to have much effect on the overall performance of the car, but 3 days after the change, my goodness, the car shifts and moves so gracefully like it once did so many years ago and I've forgotten how beautiful that felt like until now. It is specially noticeable when cornering and accerelating at the same time. No sluggishness or hesitation.
I also changed my oil (put in 7 qts of BMW 5W30) and the car is born again.
Last edited by joyfret; 07-03-2006 at 04:58 PM.
did you use the castrol dexron III?Originally Posted by joyfret
Cosmos - Black l l Lux l HK l OEM clears all around l Depo HID's 55W 5000K l Strut bar
As far as the GM transmissions are concerned, i believe the newer Dexron VI would be an even better choice for ATF. According to GM, they plan to switch over completely as Dex VI meets all prior Dexron requirements and should allow for longer ATF change intervals. Although not available at every GM dealership, where it is available, it is about $6/qt which is comparable to a quality synthetic like Mobil1 ATF ($5/qt)..
I posted way back on page 1 about a 1996 328is automatic. Owned since 50,000 miles, changed fluid at 60K Red Line d4, 90K again fluid was clean, ust a slight gray haze on the pan. Used Mobil1 ATF (recommended for Dexron). Started to slip on the 2-3 shift under moderate acceleration. Talked to a transmission rebuilder & he recommended going back to the Red Line. After 3000 miles I changed the fluid & filter back to Red Line D4. Slipping has all but disappeared. Will change just the fluid again at 5000 (95,000 total).
Moral of the story, the fluid can make a difference. I gather that the elastomers (o-rings, gaskets etc) are sensitive to the additives in the various fluids
Yes, Castrol Dexron III.Originally Posted by qidm67
Oh, I forgot to mention that I've also
put in Lubeguard in the tranny. It's a good
protectant preventing slipping of gears.
When you do a drain/refill, there would be half of previous fluid still in the tranny. So is it o.k. to mix it with different kind of fluid?Originally Posted by bimmerZ5
By changing back to RedLine D4, did you mean you've flushed the old fluidOriginally Posted by choffa
out and replaced with RedLine? Or did you just do drain & refill?
Dropped pan , new filter & fluid. Certainly have a small amount of mix in there, I'll do a fluid drain & refil in a few weeks. From my reading, the fluids are compatible, so mixing shouldn't cause real issues, but I would like to get as pure as possible. Perforing well now, I was looking down the barrel at an overhaul, but it's fine now.
***Did an ATF drain/refill w/ non-BMW ATF and auto trans is fine.
I used Mobile ATF when I changed the transmission cooler at 112k. It runs like a champ. That is the only time I changed it and the car now just rolled over to 178k.
95 540i6 M Sport - 95 525it S52/OBD2 - 433k E36 328i5 - X5D that hit a pothole - IG: @justinmurray95
"Followed BMW Lifetime ATF recommendation, did zero maintenance and auto trans. is fine."
^^^^^^^^^^
Is this dependant on flooring it, mashing the gas pedal, flooring it at a dead stop, downshifting, etc?
Cosmos - Black l l Lux l HK l OEM clears all around l Depo HID's 55W 5000K l Strut bar
My 89 didn't have the lifetime fluid, but I did replace the tranny fluid around 140,000 miles or so. It has 245k+ miles on it now on the original tranny.
99 528i Currently 124,000 Miles. Never Changed. Since 100,000 Miles The Trans Has Harsh Engaging in To First. Light Throttle Acceleration leads to Harsh 1-2 Shift 2-3 Shift. Slowing down to a stop leads to a Harsh 2-1 Downshift. Re-Programmed DME per Service Bulliton, and got rid of the Harsh 2-1 Downshift. Still Harsh 1-2 Shift, 2-3Shift Shifts fine under heavy acceleration. Read out fault memory with GT-1 no faults stored. Reset Adaptations, Trans was fine for 1 week and the problems came back. Using SSS tried re-programming the EGS. Entered Basic Control Module #, and Programmed Control Module #, SSS would not continue after entering correct #'s. GT1 cannot identify the EGS module correctly - Conclusion Bag EGS Module ( the gt1 could not identify production date of the EGS, but is able to read all status's)
Will be changing the fluid with Red Line soon. Will know if it cures the problrm or not. I may be ordering an EGS module soon if this doesnt cure it.
Sorry for the long reply....
The concerns about changing ATF is rooted in two phenomenon. First, As miles rack up on a transmission, clutch debris that is not filtered ends up doing 2 really neat things. 1) It partially or completely blocks passages in the valve body (which is really a hydro-mechanical computer) and alters the behavior of the transmission. This usually results in lags between shifts, rough shifts, etc. 2) The debris gets on the clutch packs and can alter the friction characteristics of the clutches (yes, an auto transmission has clutches). Usually, the result is that the clutches tend to grab, contributing to harsh shifts.
Now, ATF has a high level of detergents in it because ATF usually has a fairly long service interval (i.e. >15K miles). When you put in fresh ATF (with all those detergents), the contamination that has built up in the transmission is now dislodged (some of it drains out, but most of it stays in the transmission). If the contamination dislodges from the valve body and gets filtered out, you end up with faster shifts (especially that P-R, or P-F). If the contamination gets washed around (say off the interior walls of the case) and doesn't get filtered out it can actually end up clogging the valve body. Symptoms in this case include no shifting whatsoever. (The Ford AOD family is infamous for this). In some cases, the contamination is the only thing keeping the friction coefficient of the clutch packs great enough to maintain movement. New ATF can wash that contamination out and you end up with no movement due to a lack of friction.
The traditional advice has been to NOT change fluid IF it's in really bad shape. In such cases, failure of the transmission is immanent and you should begin saving your pennies. IF the fluid is not burnt and there isn't a lot of contamination in the pan, you absolutely SHOULD change your fluid and filter on a regular interval (say every 15K, 30K, or 45K). For the longest time, the standard interval in the industry (i.e. when I used to work on cars for a living) was 15K.
Changing fluids can also alter the behavior of the transmission. IF using the same fluid brand/blend/standard/whatever, the new fluid will have different properties than the old fluid and shift characteristics may change. Moving to a different fluid (say from standard to synthetic) will also likely change the shift characteristics.
<o:p></o:p>
Here's a formal statistical analysis of the data presented thus far....there are more appropriate stat methods to use (e.g. survival analysis, logistic regeression, etc.), but I worked with what was posted.
Collecting all this data is really great. What you're really trying to do here is called survival analysis. The problem is that the data points you are most interested in come from the failed units. We might also extract the failed unit data and identify various characteristics like year, trans model, and maintenance (Y/N). We could then compare the average mileage of failure across the maintenance groups, controlling for the other factors. This would address the question, “Do transmissions that get maintenance ‘live’ longer than those that don’t?” Of course, the nature of field research is that we didn’t randomly assign units to either receive or not receive maintenance. Owners that do maintenance might take better care of their cars than those that don’t. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p>
I did run a Chi Square Test of Independence on the frequency data available thus far. I collapsed the BMW Maintenance and non-BMW maintenance groups to increase cell counts. This analysis test the following:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
“Is there a relationship between transmission maintenance and failure rates?”<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
About 40% of the 185 respondents indicated that they performed a transmission service on their cars and of those respondents, 5% indicated that their transmission failed. Of the 60% of respondents that indicated they had NOT performed a transmission service, 12.7% indicated that their transmission HAD failed. Assuming that no relationship between maintenance and failure exists, the 5% failure rate for the maintenance group is nominally lower than expected and the 12.7% failure rate for the non-maintenance group is higher than expected. The results of a Chi Square Test of Independence failed to find a statistically significant difference in failure rates across the maintenance and non-maintenance groups, χ<sup>2</sup><sub>(1)</sub> = 2.78, p = .130. It is likely that additional data points would produce a scenario where a statistically significant association would be found such that we would conclude that failure rates are higher in non-maintained transmissions. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Take it for what it’s worth. The results of this poll, at one end, show that servicing BMW transmissions generally is not linked with failure. On the other hand, the data also support the notion that NOT servicing a BMW transmission may be linked with a higher likelihood of transmission failure.
www.bmwtips.com/tipsntricks/Tranny/chart.htm
These charts might help you guys pic the correct ATF....
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this is great that my old thread here has survived thus far. i think the information provided here would be of interest to any BMW owner w/ auto tranny. how can we get the mods to park this thread? certainly a very relevant topic in this forum....
* if you decided against BMW's recommendation and did an ATF drain/refill with BMW specified ATF, and your auto transmission still runs great, please state: model year, car, mileage when you did the ATF change, and current mileage.
1997 328iCa (manf. date 9/96)
approx 71,xxx miles
I had to have it done as the transmission was removed to change a bad main seal. Also the torque converter was replaced (not due to transmission failure) when doing this they did a complete drain and fill.
approx 98,xxx miles
about a year later, I had a leaking transfluid cooler line, so when that was removed the system was drained and filled again.
2001 Z3 3.0i -Oxford Green/Sandbeige
2016 428xi -Estoril Blue II/Black
2018 430iC- Estoril Blue II/Black
2018 330it - Melbourne Red/Venetian Beige/Black
* if you decided against BMW's recommendation and did an ATF drain/refill with non-BMW ATF, and your auto transmission still runs great, please state: model year, car, mileage when you did the ATF change, current mileage, and which ATF fluid you used.
94 E36 320i filled Redline D4 ATF at 117000mile and now 124000 mile and no problem but i'll go back to BMW longtime and give it a try
I've never changed the fluid in my 740iL and it shifts fine at 142k.
I just had a car in my shop that had 45k and a blown trans (00 323iA) so I think it's not so much a fluid issue as much as it's a trans issue.
My 750 IL ( v 12) started showing this code in my dash board.
"TRANS FAIL SAFE PROG".
What should i do to fix this issue. by the way my car has 73000 miles on it.
Car's previous owner did all kinds of services promptly.
Any Ideas... ???????
Please Please help me
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