Collecting Statistics on BMW auto transmission and Lifetime ATF

[hazardous111]

I got my tranny flushed last year at 138k again and this year about 2 months ago i felt my tranny begin to shudder if i would push it at all and occasionally miss gears. I took it into the dealer and was told my tranny is going and could quit on me any day now. Quoted at 5500 to get a remanufactured one!! My car only has 158k! Its not ATF, its WTF

[bimmerZ5]

I got my tranny flushed last year at 138k again and this year about 2 months ago i felt my tranny begin to shudder if i would push it at all and occasionally miss gears. I took it into the dealer and was told my tranny is going and could quit on me any day now. Quoted at 5500 to get a remanufactured one!! My car only has 158k! Its not ATF, its WTF

Well, waiting until 138K miles to do a tranny flush isn't exactly doing your tranny a favor. It should have received tranny flushes much more frequently!!

As for replacement cost, that is ridiculous! You can often find that transmission for under $700 used. If you want a remanufactured one, they are often less than $1000. For example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-4...spagenameZWDVW

I'm not saying buy from ebay, your luck with that will vary. But I'm saying the part is only about $1000. No way labor can be $4500!! (you can rebuild an engine over twice for that much labor!). Give your dealer the middle finger and talk to a reputable independent mechanic instead. This should be a fairly straight forward tranny swap (unbolt it, unplug harnesses, remove, install), I wouldn't pay more than $1000 for labor if that.

[hazardous111]

I would've done a flush before but I had just got it. The lady that owned it before knew absolutely nothing about cars. Therefore, it was not treated like a bimmer should be. And I have been looking. I think I found a tranny with only 80k on it for 500 plus shipping. Some of the shops here wont even look at bimmers and a more reputable one quoted me at over 2k for a rebuild...still kinda high

[bimmerZ5]

I would've done a flush before but I had just got it. The lady that owned it before knew absolutely nothing about cars. Therefore, it was not treated like a bimmer should be. And I have been looking. I think I found a tranny with only 80k on it for 500 plus shipping. Some of the shops here wont even look at bimmers and a more reputable one quoted me at over 2k for a rebuild...still kinda high

well, i don't think your dying tranny will fail immediately. start saving some money and have a AAA card with you.. just wait until it goes completely. if you're going to replace it, you can often sell the broken tranny to a rebuilder for them to use as a core. seek out your options. the transmission swap isn't necessarily difficult and if you're handy, or have a friend that is, you can probably even do it yourself.

[Critter7r]

Just for the record, BMW covers auto trans fluid replacement at 100,000 miles under the Extended Maintenance Program. Which would indicate to me that "Lifetime" fluid is expected to last about 100k.

[markovnikov5]

Hmm the poll here is a bit concerning
This is how I interpret the results:
_________________________________________________
..................Good ............ Failure............ Sample Size
No Change ....85% ..............15% ....................517
BMW Fluid .....83% ..............17% ....................164
Other Fluid ....96% ...............4% .....................146
__________________________________________________


To me this indicates the following:

On average out of 681 polls....
84% of bmw vehicles with bmw transmission fluid never had trouble, while 16% of vehicles with BMW transmission fluid had transmission trouble REGARDLESS of whether or not the fluid was changed

On average out of 164 polls...
96% of bmw vehicles with aftermarket transmission fluid never had trouble, while only 4% with aftermarket transmission fluid had transmission trouble.

So maybe the clue is just to stay clear of BMW transmission fluid? Then again theres no way to determine if the results are statistically significant, since the whole data collection process is 'un-scientific'. (but still scary numbers)

[icenine]

I've never replaced my 528i's fluid, and its still kicking butt at 165,000 mi. The previous owner gave me little info on the fluid changes.

Maybe I need to knock on wood now, eh?

Looking at that poll, maybe I need to get some of that aftermarket stuff.. A flush might be a good thing...
Is it supposed to grind when it changes from gear to gear? :p

[AwesomeIsLuke]

My transmission just failed today, I never touched the ATF fluid. Is there a way to change my poll answer?

[mhunter29928]

I'm a BMW tech at a dealer, here are my thoughts....
Lifetime fluid means the life of the transmission. The transmission is NOT going to last forever. If you have a regular interval of fluid changes performed, it MAY extend the life of the transmission. What is that interval? Who knows, it's supposed to be lifetime fluid. I would advise against replacing the fluid for the first time at a high mileage. For the simple reason that the clutch plate particals suspended in the fluid of a high milage trans would be "washed away" by a fluid change. The new fluid would be too "slick" for an old worn trans and lead to slipping problems. Just a therory...but I have seen high milage transmissions fail shortly after their first fluid change.

[Cyrix2k]

This will possibly be the last statistic from me. I sold my '96 318ic to my parents with 132xxx miles and no trouble has been noted with the automatic transmission. It still has the original fluid and has seen several autocrosses and somewhat severe driving.

[hawgripper]

I'm a BMW tech at a dealer, here are my thoughts....
Lifetime fluid means the life of the transmission. The transmission is NOT going to last forever. If you have a regular interval of fluid changes performed, it MAY extend the life of the transmission. What is that interval? Who knows, it's supposed to be lifetime fluid. I would advise against replacing the fluid for the first time at a high mileage. For the simple reason that the clutch plate particals suspended in the fluid of a high milage trans would be "washed away" by a fluid change. The new fluid would be too "slick" for an old worn trans and lead to slipping problems. Just a therory...but I have seen high milage transmissions fail shortly after their first fluid change.

You are probably right on the fluid change on an older car.
Back in march my tranny was have some shifting problems, delayed and hard shifts so I have the fluid/filter changed and blew the tranny 3 weeks later. Cost me $4 grand for a fresh build on mine, took the planetary out of it.
I kinda wished I had left it and I might have got a few more miles out of it, mind you I have 265,000 KM when it went and 293,000 on it now...

[angelinalove]

maintenance is necessary for any thing to keep safe for long time.

[Taylor Greenwoo]

^^^^^^ +1

SO much wrong info in this thread dont even know where to start, there is NO such thing as a lifetime fill. The longer the fluid is in the more wear elements are in the fluid thus making it abrasive and increasing wear.

[Taylor Greenwoo]

I'm a BMW tech at a dealer, here are my thoughts....
Lifetime fluid means the life of the transmission. The transmission is NOT going to last forever. If you have a regular interval of fluid changes performed, it MAY extend the life of the transmission. What is that interval? Who knows, it's supposed to be lifetime fluid. I would advise against replacing the fluid for the first time at a high mileage. For the simple reason that the clutch plate particals suspended in the fluid of a high milage trans would be "washed away" by a fluid change. The new fluid would be too "slick" for an old worn trans and lead to slipping problems. Just a therory...but I have seen high milage transmissions fail shortly after their first fluid change.

thats why I dont take any of my vehicles to any shop. No the trans wont last forever, and if you change fluid at reg intervals it most def will extend the life. all depends on conditions ex driver climate fluid etc. whats the interval, diff for every trans I personally would push much past 40k w/ a quality fluid. Yes many people run into problems with a 1st time flush at high mi. usually do to incomplete flush resulting with a lot of trash in the TC. "To slick" LOL not at all, atfs have a specific amount of friction modifiers which includes reducers and increasers. Some are more pickly than others like chryslers and ATF+4. But trans mfgs have specific specs that have o be met in order for the fluid to function properly...

[whittier96]

I changed the fluid in 2002 530i at 63000 miles with Valvoline Mercon V and after 5000 miles it seems fine. I disconnected cooler hose and pumped out old fluid as new was put in. I used 14 quarts total and cleaned pan and magnets when replacing filter.

[Taylor Greenwoo]

was the fluid burnt or anything? was a lot of metal on the magnet? did you notice much difference after the change? is mercon v the spec'd fluid?

[Wolfen]

I did mine last year with Mobil 1 multi vehicle synthetic ATF. It worked well but i drained it recently to replace it with AMS universal ATF. When i drained the Mobil 1 it turned markedly darker and smelled stronger then when i put it in. The Magnet has it's usual mud like metal particles all around it. The tranny drove well and shifted fine the entire time.

The New AMS Universal ATF, is rated to BMW's specs. Esso and all the good stuff. I must say the car feels better with it in it. But it may be in my head.

[zaborta]

I bought a 323i 2000 just 1 month ago. Everything seems just fine except for some window regulators....

it shows 137k.I'm facing no probs with my Trans.
how should i know if the previous owner did a ATF change. The owner is not around. do i have to drain some and look at the color.

[atlantisvip]

I got a used tranny about 2 years ago that had been sitting around "dry". This is supposed to be a good thing for some reason.. I'm thinking I should have done a flush after the first month it was in to get any crap out that might have developed during sitting.. Opinions ? It's an auto 4l30e.. Got it for $400 and did not have enough for the manual swap.. Paid another $400 to install..

[M51AB]

how should i know if the previous owner did a ATF change. The owner is not around. do i have to drain some and look at the color.

Because it's "lifetime" fluid, chances are it hasn't been touched unless the car was purchased from an enthusiast.

You could drain some fluid and guess, but considering how much of a pain it is to drain and refill these transmissions, if you're going to take time to check the fluid, you might as well change it.

Just make sure to check the bottom of the transmission pan so you refill with the right type of fluid.

[waterboy]

I got a 94 740i with 170,000 miles ( my second bimmer) I have had it for about 8 months now and have always notice a little hard shift from 2nd to 3rd nothing has changed in the shift pattern still a little hard shift no matter what. I want to do the trans filter change and trans flush (for good maintance)I have asked all the local atuo parts places and none can help me with what fluid I should use and the dealership says it takes a spec kind its like 60 bucks for the fluid I need can you guys help in the right directions and thoughts on this trany history.
(this trans has the large bolt in the middle of the pan to check the fluid)

[M51AB]

I got a 94 740i with 170,000 miles ( my second bimmer) I have had it for about 8 months now and have always notice a little hard shift from 2nd to 3rd nothing has changed in the shift pattern still a little hard shift no matter what. I want to do the trans filter change and trans flush (for good maintance)I have asked all the local atuo parts places and none can help me with what fluid I should use and the dealership says it takes a spec kind its like 60 bucks for the fluid I need can you guys help in the right directions and thoughts on this trany history.
(this trans has the large bolt in the middle of the pan to check the fluid)

I don't know much about the 7 series, but on my 3 series there's a sticker on the pan telling you what type of fluid to use; in my case, the bolt you're referring to isn't there just to check the fluid, it's used to drain and fill the transmission.

It can be a DIY project (you can buy everything you need from Bavarian Autosport), but if you're having trouble I would go to the dealer. They are expensive, but on such an important issue, you'll want someone who is actually trained specifically to work on your type of car.

If you're a BMW Car Club of America member, some dealers will give you a discount on parts and labor.

[NbAmTwE]

It would be very interesting to see a poll on what type of BMW it occurs most in. EX: list of car 325i, 330ci, 335i, etc. 1 series: 128i, 135i 5 series: 525i,528i, 540i, etc. 7 series: 740il, etc. etc. etc.
I think there is a trend to what engine sizes normally fail... I've noticed that a lot of the bigger engine BMWs have auto/manual Trans failure... just my perspective.

[waterboy]

The large bolt that is in the center of my pan is for checking the fluid and the drain plug is on the passanger to the bottom front of the trans its a allen headed bolt. got a good message from a few guys that PM me.

[M51AB]

It would be very interesting to see a poll on what type of BMW it occurs most in. EX: list of car 325i, 330ci, 335i, etc. 1 series: 128i, 135i 5 series: 525i,528i, 540i, etc. 7 series: 740il, etc. etc. etc.
I think there is a trend to what engine sizes normally fail... I've noticed that a lot of the bigger engine BMWs have auto/manual Trans failure... just my perspective.

I'm willing to bet it's mostly in BMW's with a ZF 5HP-19 Automatic Transmission. I recently started another thread on the issue which talks about the following article in the latest Bavarian Autosport catalog:

"Through contact with our customers, we have become aware that the ZF 5HP-19 automatic transmission (#A5S325Z) used in many 6-cylinder BMWs 00 thru 05 may suddenty lose reverse gear. This failure is the result of a broken clutch-pack snap-ring retaining lip (for the "D" clutch) on the main (D & G) clutch drum.

The repair entails the replacement of the drum, along with any other damaged parts. This is also a good time to install new clutch plates and seals, as in our master rebuild kits."

I have this transmission and have had trouble with reverse in winter, but it has yet to fail. I bought the car with 71K miles in late 2005 and had no problems the winter of 2006; however, that spring I had my local mechanic change just the fluid and gasket. The Bavarian Autosport gasket leaked and I then had my mechanic change the gasket with an OEM and check the fluid level. Starting the next winter, I began experiencing problems with reverse in cold weather.

I park in a garage and back down a sloped driveway, when the car is parked overnight and started with a garage temperature of about 20F or lower it will shift into reverse and backup just fine until it hits the slope at which point I need to rev up near the red line to get the car to creep down the driveway; once in drive, I have the same problem for about 100 feet then the transmission works fine.

I took the car to my local dealership who left it outside in sub-zero temperature last winter and could not duplicate the problem. Without any problems found, they updated the transmission's programming, which worked for a few weeks.

I stopped by my dealership this week with the article and they stated BMW has a service bulletin out on this transmission losing reverse gear. The dealer suggested I wait for my problem to occur again than bring it in and they will try to duplicate it again.

A very uneducated guess tells me because this only happens when it's really cold and the car is backing down a slope that the fluid level is low or there is an internal leak within the transmission. As a safeguard I'm having the fluid and filter changed by the dealer in the morning and I hope this works, but honestly I'm thinking there are seals inside the transmission that have leaked causing the condensed cold fluid to keep from properly lubricating the torque converter while the transmission is at an angle.