Collecting Statistics on BMW auto transmission and Lifetime ATF

[qidm67]

Hey.. you're right, you have the 4L30-E. I have a 5L40-E, but they are all GM transmissions.

It sounds like you want a straight answer. The problem is, there's too much rumor, contradictory testimonials, contradictory recommendations, etc. around this issue. That's the whole reason why I started this thread; to get a discussion going on this issue. So, it's hard to give you a straight answer (though, I will attempt one)... even seasoned transmission professionals will shy away from giving you a straight answer about this issue. Hence, my "best" recommendation is to gather as much info as you can and make the judgement call based on the information you researched. The freedom is yours (rejoice), but you will face the consequences of your choice (good or bad).

Now, for the straight answer... I can't give you the answer that will guarantee that your transmission will last a long time. But, if I were in your shoes, with your transmission (4L30-E), I would change the ATF and filter at least every 50K miles (maybe even every 30K miles) and I would use a Dex-6 ATF. And during the ATF drain, I would try to drain everything out as much as possible (trans, oil cooler, cooler lines, torque converter) for a complete flush. But that's just me... I'm not a transmission professional, but that's what I've concluded based on all the different information I've gathered in my research of this issue.

Thanks again for the response, I do appreciate it.
Of course I want a straight answer, don't you? Doesn't everyone? We shouldn't have to guess and go through trial & error on which fluid to try.
It should be straightforward on what fluid to use. Like you can go open the hood of Ford and it will state which fluid to use on the dipstick, usually it will state a "Mercon" number like IV or V.

On the other hand you have BMW transmission where there is no dipstick and on transmission oil pan it says "Lifetime Fluid, do not replace as it will void warranty" then it states a P/N. This is totally unacceptable.

It seems as though it would be a good idea to do a oil change.

Right now I have four in mind
-Castrol Dexron III
-Texaco ATF Dexron III
-Dexron VI (6)
-Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF

The Mobil 1 ATF seems a bit risky it is fully synthetic and I know Dexron III is not synthetic. So if the two were to mix or if the synthetic reacted with the "old stuff" it may create problems.

Dexron VI is a premium synthetic blend.

Here is product page for Castrol Dexron VI

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/secti...tentId=7028225

A few articles about this Dexron VI
http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...oto=nextoldest
www.zzperformance.com/miscftp/Dexron%20VI.doc

Was Dexron III semi-synthetic?

[bimmerZ5]

Thanks again for the response, I do appreciate it.
Of course I want a straight answer, don't you? Doesn't everyone? We shouldn't have to guess and go through trial & error on which fluid to try.
It should be straightforward on what fluid to use. Like you can go open the hood of Ford and it will state which fluid to use on the dipstick, usually it will state a "Mercon" number like IV or V.

On the other hand you have BMW transmission where there is no dipstick and on transmission oil pan it says "Lifetime Fluid, do not replace as it will void warranty" then it states a P/N. This is totally unacceptable.

I know your frustration about not having a straight answer. Everyone who's thought about this issue has felt the same at one point or another. My point is that through all my research on the issue, I've found that there isn't a definitive clear answer. What's left is trial & error, and hopefully with the best educated guesses one can make with the information here and elsewhere.

It seems as though it would be a good idea to do a oil change.

Right now I have four in mind
-Castrol Dexron III
-Texaco ATF Dexron III
-Dexron VI (6)
-Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF

The Mobil 1 ATF seems a bit risky it is fully synthetic and I know Dexron III is not synthetic. So if the two were to mix or if the synthetic reacted with the "old stuff" it may create problems.

Dexron VI is a premium synthetic blend.

Here is product page for Castrol Dexron VI

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/secti...tentId=7028225

A few articles about this Dexron VI
http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...oto=nextoldest
www.zzperformance.com/miscftp/Dexron%20VI.doc

Was Dexron III semi-synthetic?

The GM Dexron specifications don't specify whether an ATF should be synthetic or not. You can find fully and semi synthetics of Dex-3, same with Dex-6. Castrol's Dex-6 is semi-syn, and I think Valvoline has as Dex-6 that is fully-syn.

For myself, having a GM transmission in my BMW, I would just go with the best Dex-6 and skip the old Dex-3 stuff. Dex-6 can replace any Dex-3 and is backwards compatible and can mix with little ill effect. It should hold up better than Dex-3 under harsh use or extremely hot climates.

I'd have to check the technical documentation, but I believe your year model had Dex-3 as factory fill.

[chadmc5c]

Did my 328is at100k
Pelican had a good article on how to.
I can't imagine any fluid being lifetime.
It seemed to me the lifetime fluid came around about the same time BMW started including maintenance on the new cars.
used penzoil atf with filters from pelican.
car shifted better after fluid change.
had a fair amount of gray sludge on the magnet inside tranny.
wheel bearings next.
chad

[qidm67]

I know your frustration about not having a straight answer. Everyone who's thought about this issue has felt the same at one point or another. My point is that through all my research on the issue, I've found that there isn't a definitive clear answer. What's left is trial & error, and hopefully with the best educated guesses one can make with the information here and elsewhere.


The GM Dexron specifications don't specify whether an ATF should be synthetic or not. You can find fully and semi synthetics of Dex-3, same with Dex-6. Castrol's Dex-6 is semi-syn, and I think Valvoline has as Dex-6 that is fully-syn.

For myself, having a GM transmission in my BMW, I would just go with the best Dex-6 and skip the old Dex-3 stuff. Dex-6 can replace any Dex-3 and is backwards compatible and can mix with little ill effect. It should hold up better than Dex-3 under harsh use or extremely hot climates.

I'd have to check the technical documentation, but I believe your year model had Dex-3 as factory fill.

Do you know what Castrol Dexron III used to be, conventional or semi-synthetic?

[bimmerZ5]

Do you know what Castrol Dexron III used to be, conventional or semi-synthetic?

There were 3 Castrol ATF that I looked into when I first researched this issue:

Castrol Dexron-III/Mercon - conventional ATF
Castrol SYNTEC Dexron-III/Mercon - full synthetic ATF
Castrol Mercon V - conventional ATF

Granted, Castrol is HUGE, and they have products that are sold outside the US that they don't sell here. So, I'm sure they have other Dexron-III offerings that I don't know about.

By the way, what's the production date of your E36 325i? There were two transmissions used on that car, the A4S310R (pre-9/95) and A4S270R (9/95-10/95). Between 9/95-10/95, ATF was NOT considered Lifetime fill; that only started after 9/95. Regardless of production date or transmission type, they were factory filled with one of: (1) Unical Dex-III(D) - Multipurpose ATF, (2) Castrol Dexron III - Mercon, (3) Texaco ATF Mercon - Dexron III. Point is, you can simply use a Dexron III compatible ATF: absolutely so "special" fluids like the Esso or Shell was used in your transmission. And if it was produced prior to 9/95, BMW's recommended transmission service is applicable and there was no "lifetime fill" BS.

[qidm67]

There were 3 Castrol ATF that I looked into when I first researched this issue:

Castrol Dexron-III/Mercon - conventional ATF
Castrol SYNTEC Dexron-III/Mercon - full synthetic ATF
Castrol Mercon V - conventional ATF

Granted, Castrol is HUGE, and they have products that are sold outside the US that they don't sell here. So, I'm sure they have other Dexron-III offerings that I don't know about.

By the way, what's the production date of your E36 325i? There were two transmissions used on that car, the A4S310R (pre-9/95) and A4S270R (9/95-10/95). Between 9/95-10/95, ATF was NOT considered Lifetime fill; that only started after 9/95. Regardless of production date or transmission type, they were factory filled with one of: (1) Unical Dex-III(D) - Multipurpose ATF, (2) Castrol Dexron III - Mercon, (3) Texaco ATF Mercon - Dexron III. Point is, you can simply use a Dexron III compatible ATF: absolutely so "special" fluids like the Esso or Shell was used in your transmission. And if it was produced prior to 9/95, BMW's recommended transmission service is applicable and there was no "lifetime fill" BS.

The transmission was replaced by a dealership in 2001 at 53K miles, the part number on the invoice is 24-00-1-422-640.
When I enter it on Realoem it gives me the A4S 310R number.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...24&fg=05&hl=82

Now I don't know what they would have filled it with at the dealership. On the bottom of pan it states the transmission has the "Lifetime Fluid" and "Do not replace fluid as warranty will be void." Well the warranty is over anyways.

[bimmerZ5]

The transmission was replaced by a dealership in 2001 at 53K miles, the part number on the invoice is 24-00-1-422-640.
When I enter it on Realoem it gives me the A4S 310R number.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...24&fg=05&hl=82

Now I don't know what they would have filled it with at the dealership. On the bottom of pan it states the transmission has the "Lifetime Fluid" and "Do not replace fluid as warranty will be void." Well the warranty is over anyways.

That transmission is the pre-9/95 transmission and should have been filled with Dexron-III ATF. I would suspect the "Lifetime fill" sticker was something the dealership added later on. pre-9/95, there was no such thing as "lifetime fill".

Anyway, looking forward, If I were in your shoes, I would just use a Dex-6 ATF (synthetic or blend), and I would replace the fluid and filter at every major service interval (like 50-60K, or during inspection-II). If you drive in really hot climate or drive it really hard, then I would do it more often. Good luck though! At least you don't even have to think about the Esso ATF crap others here have to consider...

[Wolfen]

Are you guys dense? I see you guys asking questions that have been addressed in my post on page 11.

It does not matter if a fluid is fully synthetic. It's not a risk, it's an advantage. But i guess if your level of thinking is still on the level of thinking a fluid being synthetic is a possible issue then you need all the help you can get.

My 540 with a ZF tranny runs 100% perfect on Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. 5-10% increased MPG due to a reduction is parasitic losses and an increase in torque transfer efficiency. Firmer shifts. Cooler operating temps. YAY!

All autos will hold the 1st gear IF you start your car cold and drive immediately. It's not the tranny but the ECU telling the tranny to hold 1st, for the engines benefit of the equivalent of a rev out before shifting...bone cold.

EVERYONE should change their ATF like they change their engine oil, just not as often duhh. Lifetime fluid OBVIOUSLY means the lifetime of the tranny. What else could it mean? Your life? Car's life?

Change it already and be worry free. If your tranny is healthy then change it. If it's having symptoms, change it anyway but realise it's on it's way out. You may get more life out of it by changing it or not. Simple.

Start thinking for yourselves. Logic and common sense dictates it's good practice to change fluids. Anywhere there is heat and friction, there is fluid taking care of it and degrading as a result. COMMON SENSE. Nothing lasts forever. Fluids break down. Loose their viscosity, loose their shearing resistance, loose their film strength. Common sense. Replace them.

Worried about what fluid to use? Use AMS OIL UNIVERSAL ATF. It's fully synthetic. BTW: an ATF fluid being synthetic is what gives it the ability to be multi vehicle and universal, for those that understand the principles and requirements of ATF oils. There is no more reason to discuss this anymore all questions have been answered.

Vote on the polls and be done already. Some people must just like attention and a merry go'round.

No offense to those offended. Just tough love.

[Wolfen]

That transmission is the pre-9/95 transmission and should have been filled with Dexron-III ATF. I would suspect the "Lifetime fill" sticker was something the dealership added later on. pre-9/95, there was no such thing as "lifetime fill".

Anyway, looking forward, If I were in your shoes, I would just use a Dex-6 ATF (synthetic or blend), and I would replace the fluid and filter at every major service interval (like 50-60K, or during inspection-II). If you drive in really hot climate or drive it really hard, then I would do it more often. Good luck though! At least you don't even have to think about the Esso ATF crap others here have to consider...

NO ONE HAS TO USE ESSO. It's myth perpetuated by BMW and everyone else. Even BMW hadly has any models that use or used the ESSO for very long.

AMS OIL UNIVERSAL ATF will do for ANY ANY ANY ANY ANY ANY CAR.

If you don't like that way i come across consider that how i come across has no bearing on whether what i say is any more or less true.

[Doru]

Have a 2003 530 with 52000 miles. Never changed the fluid. Runs OK.
Previously owned a 2000 Volvo S60 with same setup: lifetime tranny fluid. Changed it at 70000 miles and there was a noticeable improvement in shifting. The deteriorating of the shifting was subtle, and was noticed only after changing the ATF transmission fluid.

[keefy6]

Changed mine at 134K mi. 7/21. Car shifts easier and acceleration is smoother. BMW technician recommended Castrol Dexron-III Mercon ATF as a replacement for BMW ATF. So that is what i used.

As a side note, i almost thought that it was motor oil that i was taking out because it was so dark. From what i've read and what i was told by the tech. It was overdue by 30k mi.

[qidm67]

Anyone have experience with the new Dexron 6 (VI)?

[pckl300]

"Followed BMW Lifetime ATF recommendation, did zero maintenance and auto trans. is fine."

I have done the above for all 248,000mi or 413,000km and the auto transmission is still in great condition

[pckl300]

Have a 2003 530 with 52000 miles. Never changed the fluid. Runs OK.
Previously owned a 2000 Volvo S60 with same setup: lifetime tranny fluid. Changed it at 70000 miles and there was a noticeable improvement in shifting. The deteriorating of the shifting was subtle, and was noticed only after changing the ATF transmission fluid.

Please enlighten me on what this Automatic Transmission Fluid transmission fluid is....

[Sicily1918]

Please enlighten me on what this Automatic Transmission Fluid transmission fluid is....

Department of redundancy department?

[Sicily1918]

BTW, I replaced my ATF on Monday (and the differential's) -- so far, so good. Feels a little smoother, too (granted, I had all of 42K miles on it).

Used Redline D4 ATF (and 70w90 for the diff).

[bigwiki]

Just drained/refilled(not flush) my e34 525i with 2 qtr of Chevron Dextron 6 synthetic. The trans shifts very smooth now. What a difference. I'm going to do that same to my Merc 300E this weekend.

[capn shawn]

But also consider the fact that the people that had failures and did nothing. Because "NOTHING" is what they're supposed to do. " as per bmw". So in essence the picture is becoming clear. Follow directions by BMW and do "nothing" and you will get more failures.

The sample population size of people that did nothing will ALWAYS be significantly larger by comparison due to human nature. There will always be more people that "DID NOTHING" as opposed to people that "DID SOMETHING". It's just a little philosophy in there for you to consider in making an accurate observation and drawing viable conclusions.

I did consider the people that did "nothing", it's line #1 that states that 13.7% of people that did nothing experienced a failure. The fact that there are more of them doesn't change the math because I am comparing people that did "nothing" to people that did "nothing".

You are right, there are always more people that do nothing, my post is to make sure that we are all comparing apples to apples. The original poll does not make this distinction at all and uses the total population to calculate the results.

[Cyrix2k]

I've done nothing in my 1996 318ic w. 124500 miles and it's fine. However, I will be draining and filling the tranny with new dexron sometime in the future.

[bimmerZ5]

hey.. i know this isn't the "ideal" place for the following, but i figure a LOT of people concerned about their automatic transmissions are subscribed to this thread. and in the interest of those folks and since I originated this poll/thread anyway, I'd like to inform people about the following link:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...bmw_trans.html

It looks like attorney's review this site. Perhaps if enough of us report the problems, it would become a profitable case for some law firm to pursue. Perhaps if that happened, BMW might get serious about maintenance on their auto/steptronic transmissions and stop with the "lifetime" bs.

[bimmerZ5]

I found this used oil analysis report of the ESSO LT71141 on BITOG forum. I believe the owner of that car has posted to this thread (hope he doesn't mind). Anyway, the results are interesting:

[TNM3]

I have a 2000 740il-never serviced trans. has 98,000, no problems with trans.
I will be serviceing it in the near future. I worked in the automotive repair buisness for over 15 years and there is no doubt that evry transmission will wear out. The only protection for longlife use is to change the trans fluid and filter. Alot of BMW transmissions are GM anyways. Changing the fluid will not cause any problems.

[jschweiger]

98 750iL 205K miles, never changed. Shifts as good as my 01 750 with 73K miles.

[whosyadadie01]

96 328i 147k and not a fluid change yet(shifts a lil hard tho but not shure if i should change it or not

[JollyRogerX]

95 525, transmission failed at approximately 170k, no changes.