Collecting Statistics on BMW auto transmission and Lifetime ATF

[corlessr]

2000 Z3 2.3 @65,400mi no known transmission fluid change. My thoughts on this are
1.Filter change?
2.Wrong fluid may cause deterioration
3.How do you check the level?

[sunman]

did a fluid change and filter with factory fluid. Tranny is fine so far after 400 miles 2000 bmw 540 wagon.

[speedcrazy1532]

2000 Z3 2.3 @65,400mi no known transmission fluid change. My thoughts on this are
1.Filter change?
2.Wrong fluid may cause deterioration
3.How do you check the level?

You can use Redline D4 ATF, The amsoil universal stuff they've been talking about, or the actual texaco stuff ETL 7045E. You take 7.8l without draining the torque converter and 8.8l with the tourque converter drained.

BMW part 83220026922

NOTE: If anybody has any doubts about what fluid they require, i have charts on years of ALL models ranging from 91-02 bmw's. Like the OP, i've done LOTS of reading on this subject. CHANGE IT. BMW was just trying to cut costs on their service plans when they made it "lifetime"

My trans at 105000 miles decided to stop going into reverse. After i changed it with D4 the problem got much better. It still happened but it was a HUGE improvement, less frequent. I just replced it all together because i got a huge deal on a low mileage trans.

[charlesb2003]

99 528i, 112,000 miles, trans never touched, shifts smooth as butter!

[capn shawn]

For the record, as of 7/24/2007:

• 16% of people that did nothing experienced a transmission failure.
• 22% of people that drained and filled their transmissions experienced a failure.
• 3% of people that filled their transmissions with non-BMW fluid experienced a failure.

Considering the sample size and how one vote can change the failure number by 1 percentage point, this is somewhat inconclusive so-far because the all-important information of how many miles you have is not included.

Most people don't change their trans fluid until at least 75K miles, so people that have not changed the fluid (as a population) generally have lower mileage cars and are not as far out on the old "bathtub failure curve"

Us with higher mileage cars are more likely to have a transmission failure just because of the wear and tear on the components. We also are more likely to have changed our fluid. So concluding that the small percentage difference between one population and another proves anything would be wrong.




PS: Dear God, please bless my transmission.

[bimmerZ5]

For the record, as of 7/24/2007:

• 16% of people that did nothing experienced a transmission failure.
• 22% of people that drained and filled their transmissions experienced a failure.
• 3% of people that filled their transmissions with non-BMW fluid experienced a failure.

How are you getting those numbers based on the votes collected so far?

if you're comparing against the entire population of voters, 8.48% did nothing and had a failure. If you're comparing against the population of voters that had a transmission failure, 66% that didn't do anything had a failure. Similarly, I'm not sure how you got the other % numbers either... other than maybe adding 19+3 (votes) to get 22 votes (not %). 34% of those that had a trans failure, drained and filled their ATF. 66% being almost double of 34%, your chances of a transmission failure is twice as much by doing nothing.

[capn shawn]

Oh boy, did I screw up that math! I did the math before posting and then quickly did it again while posting and forgot to add the two #'s together to divide by. Thanks BIMMERZ5 for the correction. Here are the true numbers and how I got them:

• 13.7% of people that did nothing experienced a failure
• 17.6% of people that drained and filled their transmissions experienced a failure
• 3.3% of people that filled their transmissions with non-BMW fluid experienced a failure.

****** PLEASE NOTE: the corrected math proves my original point (two post up) even more******

The 13.7% is based off of (43/(270+43)) where 43 is the number of failures and 270 is the number of non-failures in the group of people that did nothing

The 17.6 is based off of (19/(89+19)) where 19 is the number of failures and 89 is the number of non-failures in the group of people that changed the tranny fluid.

The point of my post is to compare apples to apples. The fact that there are more trans failures by people that did nothing is only because there is a larger group of people that did nothing. Also, your math is way off because you cannot combine the two populatons of people that have different sample sizes. You cannot say (as in your post) that your chances are twice as great to fail if you do nothing. On the contrary, the data shows that we who have changed our fluid have a slightly larger chance of having a failure.

My post was to simply state that this poll is showing your odds to be about even and that it appears to me that the slight increase in failures in cars that have been serviced is because those cars almost certainly have the highest mileage. Most people wouldn't service a transmission with 30K miles on it, but would service a 100K mile transmission. Which do you think is more likely to fail? Unfortunately, we cannot ask the guys with 30K miles not to vote. A more accurate poll would include many more choices to break up the cars based on mileage.

[KnowledgeSeeker]

98 528ia bought at 98k miles and did a fluid/filter change myself. at 100k miles did a fluid flush at a transmission shop.

I started with a rough 1-2 and 2-3 shifts (most noticeably under light throttle). This has been from when i bought the car and nothing has changed since the two fluid changes with 10k miles driven since.

I also reset the adaptive transmission recently which initially made the shifts worse and then quickly went back to its original condition. My next hope is the transmission eprom reprogram...otherwise i will have to live with these harsh shifts!

also no trans codes on car.

[coolfishy101]

1995 325i auto 127,000 3rd makes grinding noise and thumps into gear. Doing an auto trans fluid/filter change in 2 weeks when I have money. I'm going to use redline.

[Joseph Lattimor]

I have a 2004 BMW 525i with 125,000 miles. Having a problem with front end shaking at 60 MPH only. Also have problem with either the transmission or rear end, it seems to slip or spin when starting forward or starting backwards, at red lights or around curves. Some times it wont go in gear for about 2-5 seconds, Had the transmission fluid changed and it stills does it. Have a little rattling noise in left rear. Should I take it to a dealership and have it checked out completely. Can't find a trust worthy mechanic that works on BMW around here. Other than that, It drives great. Any suggestions or commets. Have never changed the fluid or checked fluid in the rear differential axle. would that help?

[spoonerDee]

97 328i with aprox 97xxx miles on the OD

to my knowledge fluid was never changed. car shifts very well, a little hard between 1st to second almost like the car expects me to push it but i dont, i might try the tranny reset i heard mentioned b4 on BFC see if that rids it, if so, then no problems at all.

i do drive it hard often and it shifts like butter then, but when i go easy it kinda doesnt from first to second.

[qidm67]

I have a 2004 BMW 525i with 125,000 miles. Having a problem with front end shaking at 60 MPH only. Also have problem with either the transmission or rear end, it seems to slip or spin when starting forward or starting backwards, at red lights or around curves. Some times it wont go in gear for about 2-5 seconds, Had the transmission fluid changed and it stills does it. Have a little rattling noise in left rear. Should I take it to a dealership and have it checked out completely. Can't find a trust worthy mechanic that works on BMW around here. Other than that, It drives great. Any suggestions or commets. Have never changed the fluid or checked fluid in the rear differential axle. would that help?

Is it under warranty? If so, take it to the stealer.

[unkel]

Hi all - I'm new here

'96 735i 137k never changed, tranny still shifts very smoothly

I was planning to change oil and filter, but seeing all these high mileage E38s with no problems, I don't think I'll go ahead

[ms97m3sedan]

Fluid has never been changed/no problems.

'97 m3 sedan
84k miles (not tracked)

[qidm67]

So what is the oil for the E36's that have the GM 4L30E? Is it Dexron III?

[bimmerZ5]

So what is the oil for the E36's that have the GM 4L30E? Is it Dexron III?

yeah.. more or less. depending on the year, BMW changed the factory fill fluid. but basically you can use Dex-3. Or, even better, use Dex-6 which is now available from Castrol.

[qidm67]

yeah.. more or less. depending on the year, BMW changed the factory fill fluid. but basically you can use Dex-3. Or, even better, use Dex-6 which is now available from Castrol.

What about all that fuss about the Esso and the BMW ATF fluid at the dealership? I can go to Autozone and purchase the Castrol ATF Dexron III?

[bimmerZ5]

What about all that fuss about the Esso and the BMW ATF fluid at the dealership? I can go to Autozone and purchase the Castrol ATF Dexron III?

The Esso and Shell stuff that BMW uses were only for the ZF transmissions. For the GM transmissions, BMW used a Texaco ATF. The 1st generation of these were just Dex-3 ATFs, then they switched to some ATF that no one really knows what it is. The truth is that the GM transmission is no different than the GM transmission they use in GM cars. BMW didn't put any "magic" into the 5L40-E that all of sudden made it require some "special" ATF. Dex-3 should be just fine. But GM is migrating from Dex-3 to Dex-6 on all GM transmission that required Dex-3. The Dex-6 specifications are all roughly about double what Dex-3 required. Supposedly, GM believes that with Dex-6, you can go about 100K miles without service. Hence, why I recommend just going with a quality Dex-6. They've been available since 2005-ish.. but were hard to find. Nowadays, Dex-6 is easier to find and not very expensive.

Granted, I'm no guru on the subject. I'm just telling you my own conclusions based on technical docs I've read and information that you can find via google. People fuss about a lot of things, just decide for yourself and face the consequences.

[Wolfen]

This is a post i made on another board about this topic.

BTW: 97 540 zf tranny (auto) . 43K Miles. Replaced with Mobil 1 Synthetic Multi vehicle ATF. Runs like a dream. Improved gas mileage by as much as 10%!!!!

I dog it out around town and ca't get the fuel needle to move from the "F" mark till i get about 60 miles. Easy 100Miles in the first 1/4 tank. Before 80-90 with never going above 2500RPM. The is eternally thanking me for it. So much energy was being wasted by the esso fluid. It all went into friction = heat.

Enjoy my debate about this with other forum members. Post follows.


HEAR ME OUT AND PLEASE PLEASE SCHOOL ME IF I'M WRONG.

It does not matter. Just about all trannies work on the same principle and use their fluids to do the same thing. Just like engines with engine oil.

For some reason trannies have this mystique around them. Engines used to be the same way. People used to argue with a fever that you can only use this or type of oil. Use this type of oil and your engine will cease etc etc etc.... Then there were always people that backed this up by stating that they ren such and such oil and their engine started to consume oil.

Trannies use fluids to:

1. transfer torque
2. lubricate
3. cool the tranny.

10 years ago when the tranny was filled it could have been a semi synthetic fluid. At the time there were no synthetic auto tranny fluids and all that was in the stores were dyno fluids. Things have changed since then and lubrication technology came a long way.

The ONLY consideration with fluid types is the following:

Some metal components in the tranny like it's clutches or valves or whatever can be made from metals like bronze, copper, stainless steel, aluminum etc etc... Some trannies have combinations of these different metals. So fluid type becomes important because trannies can't have ANY varnish buildup or it will start to fail.

Tranny fluids are very high in additive packages that may corrode some of the metals and cause premature failure. This is the SINGLE most important reason why there are different fluid specifications.

Incidentally it's the same with Manuals. Use the wrong fluid formulation in a Manual and it can eat you synchros if they're made of bronze. Use the correct fluid and it will run for a long time.

So, as long as you use a Synthetic fluid In there, you have nothing to worry about. The new synthetic tranny fluids will not react or corrode any metals in the tranny because they don't have to have the additive packages to keep them from causing varnish buildup because they are fully synthetic.

This is why the NEW purely synthetic fluids are now regarded as almost universal in their applications. Mobil 1 ATF, AMSOIL Universal ATF are to be used with with no worries.



UPDATE:

My tranny seems to be transferring torque much better as the days wore on. Currently when i come to a stop and accelerate while turning my traction control always kicks in. Before it rarely did in the same turns, with the same level of pedal pressure and the same ambient temps. The synthetic ATF makes the tranny behave like a different animal. Akin to a very mild shift kit. The shifts are so much more crisp and authoritative.

I put my money where my mouth is and used logic to change to new synthetic fluids in the tranny and it runs great and there is no reason for it not to.


BTW: Great Siamese Kittens. I love those and have one boy and waiting for another. He needs a friend to boss around, LOL!

[Wolfen]

Funny, BUT thus far the people that filled with new BMW fluid had more failures then those that refilled with non bmw fluids. LOL! Anyway i can lend you my knowledge of lubrication, let me know.

[Wolfen]

Here is a cut and paste from the original topic i started. It will introduce you to my little ordeal. LOL!

Decided to change the ATF on my 97. It has 42K on it and figured why not, after 10 years of it being there it must be degraded.

I drained it easily enough. Pumped new fluid in and took it for a ride. Immediately i noticed....The torque converter whine! WTF? I drove for another 15 miles and it was whinning between 1K and 1.8K RPM.

Got the cold shiver down my back with a " what have i done " thoughts going through my head. Went back home parked the car and started research and realised 2 things.

1. One, i under filed the tranny by NOT starting the engine while doing it. It turns out that when you start the engine, about 3 quarts of fluid gets sucked up from the pan. So in effect i was able to refill with 3 more quarts. It was way way low. Total refill was about 6.5 quarts.

2. Two, the ATF fluid thing. I started sweating because i pumped in Synthetic ATF from Mobil 1. It's not the BMW required fluid. So i thought this may have something to do with it too.


I started calling dealers and doing research on the BMW ATF. Let's say that most dealerships are clueless. One dealer i called told me that:

1. they don't know what fluid it's supposed to take.
2. they don't have a data base to reference.
3. they don't sell it to the public
4. i May have to bring my own container.

The price was priceless! I CAN pay what they wanted, but why piss away money?

My research continued. I decided to call a local AAMCO. I figured all they do is transmissions, from EVERY make and model. So i ring them up and speak to the manager, told him what i did and he let me speak to a tech.

I got the AAMCO tech on the phone and this is what he said after looking the BMW 540 in his database.

"The 4.4L 540 has a GM tranny. All GM trannies can run Dexron fluid. Some imports with GM trannies have import fluids, BUT they can be replaced with a Dexron fluid from today. They are backward compatible, especially synthetic fluid, EVERY GM tranny we build and rebuild get's Dexton fluid"

So there it was, from a transmission builder.

So my transmission got refilled with Mobil 1 ATF, the result? The shifts are much much crisper. The car pulls harder and feels like a reduction in parasitic losses took place. The acceleration is definitely quicker.

The overall Impression is that the tranny is much much better. It shifts better with more "crisp". I would say that it now performs like a BMW tranny should.

I would highly recommend it to anyone with a Auto as it runs like it has a shift kit in it.

[Wolfen]

Oh boy, did I screw up that math! I did the math before posting and then quickly did it again while posting and forgot to add the two #'s together to divide by. Thanks BIMMERZ5 for the correction. Here are the true numbers and how I got them:

• 13.7% of people that did nothing experienced a failure
• 17.6% of people that drained and filled their transmissions experienced a failure
• 3.3% of people that filled their transmissions with non-BMW fluid experienced a failure.

****** PLEASE NOTE: the corrected math proves my original point (two post up) even more******

The 13.7% is based off of (43/(270+43)) where 43 is the number of failures and 270 is the number of non-failures in the group of people that did nothing

The 17.6 is based off of (19/(89+19)) where 19 is the number of failures and 89 is the number of non-failures in the group of people that changed the tranny fluid.

The point of my post is to compare apples to apples. The fact that there are more trans failures by people that did nothing is only because there is a larger group of people that did nothing. Also, your math is way off because you cannot combine the two populatons of people that have different sample sizes. You cannot say (as in your post) that your chances are twice as great to fail if you do nothing. On the contrary, the data shows that we who have changed our fluid have a slightly larger chance of having a failure.

My post was to simply state that this poll is showing your odds to be about even and that it appears to me that the slight increase in failures in cars that have been serviced is because those cars almost certainly have the highest mileage. Most people wouldn't service a transmission with 30K miles on it, but would service a 100K mile transmission. Which do you think is more likely to fail? Unfortunately, we cannot ask the guys with 30K miles not to vote. A more accurate poll would include many more choices to break up the cars based on mileage.

But also consider the fact that the people that had failures and did nothing. Because "NOTHING" is what they're supposed to do. " as per bmw". So in essence the picture is becoming clear. Follow directions by BMW and do "nothing" and you will get more failures.

The sample population size of people that did nothing will ALWAYS be significantly larger by comparison due to human nature. There will always be more people that "DID NOTHING" as opposed to people that "DID SOMETHING". It's just a little philosophy in there for you to consider in making an accurate observation and drawing viable conclusions.

[qidm67]

The Esso and Shell stuff that BMW uses were only for the ZF transmissions. For the GM transmissions, BMW used a Texaco ATF. The 1st generation of these were just Dex-3 ATFs, then they switched to some ATF that no one really knows what it is. The truth is that the GM transmission is no different than the GM transmission they use in GM cars. BMW didn't put any "magic" into the 5L40-E that all of sudden made it require some "special" ATF. Dex-3 should be just fine. But GM is migrating from Dex-3 to Dex-6 on all GM transmission that required Dex-3. The Dex-6 specifications are all roughly about double what Dex-3 required. Supposedly, GM believes that with Dex-6, you can go about 100K miles without service. Hence, why I recommend just going with a quality Dex-6. They've been available since 2005-ish.. but were hard to find. Nowadays, Dex-6 is easier to find and not very expensive.

Granted, I'm no guru on the subject. I'm just telling you my own conclusions based on technical docs I've read and information that you can find via google. People fuss about a lot of things, just decide for yourself and face the consequences.

Thank you for the response(s), I appreciate it.
, that at the end made me sad.

I thought it was 4L30-E?

Anyways, I'm here at a crossroad. The previous owner installed a new rebuilt transmission from a dealership in 2001 at 53K miles. Right now the transmission has 94K, the transmission has no apparent problems as of now. Shifts are smooth, shifts into overdrive, shifts get better as it is cooler outside. The only problems are when it's is uber hot, the shifts can get harder but I don't know if this is normal or not. Also in the cold, I have to let the car warmup for a few minutes because if you drive it straight up after a long cold night it will delay the first initial shifts. Like it will hold first gear for a bit, this has been described as the "morning sickness" by other members.

The dilemma is weather or not should I changed the ATF in there or not? If so , with what? Will simple old Castrol Dexron III work? Or should I purchase the special BMW ATF?

I was talking with the most knowledgeable tech at my local dealership about this. He told me usually people who wait until 100K and change their fluid face problems. Yet people who change it around 40-50K do not face any problems. Also he told me that NOW the definition of "Lifetime" means the lifetime of the transmission. In black & white, "Lifetime" means until the transmission dies. I was a bit shocked when I heard this as well and a bit angry as well.
Also he told me that now BMW is enforcing transmission fluids to be changed at around 50-60K miles. The tech also talked about Dexron.

Also something funny was that he himself has E36 325i with a auto transmission and decided not to change the fluid from 50K till present mileage at 120K.

So for bimmerZ5 anyone else who has viewed and is viewing this thread please advise on if I should touch it or not? If so, what should I replace it with?

I really love my car and would love for the auto transmission to last a very long time. I will be starting a commute very soon of a whole 70 miles a day on the highway without any traffic so I want the transmission dilemma out of the way ASAP. The transmission shifts great without any slamming or delays. Please don't advise on the "manual swap FTW"

Thank you, I really appreciate it, have a great day/night.

[bimmerZ5]

I thought it was 4L30-E?

So for bimmerZ5 anyone else who has viewed and is viewing this thread please advise on if I should touch it or not? If so, what should I replace it with?

Hey.. you're right, you have the 4L30-E. I have a 5L40-E, but they are all GM transmissions.

It sounds like you want a straight answer. The problem is, there's too much rumor, contradictory testimonials, contradictory recommendations, etc. around this issue. That's the whole reason why I started this thread; to get a discussion going on this issue. So, it's hard to give you a straight answer (though, I will attempt one)... even seasoned transmission professionals will shy away from giving you a straight answer about this issue. Hence, my "best" recommendation is to gather as much info as you can and make the judgement call based on the information you researched. The freedom is yours (rejoice), but you will face the consequences of your choice (good or bad).

Now, for the straight answer... I can't give you the answer that will guarantee that your transmission will last a long time. But, if I were in your shoes, with your transmission (4L30-E), I would change the ATF and filter at least every 50K miles (maybe even every 30K miles) and I would use a Dex-6 ATF. And during the ATF drain, I would try to drain everything out as much as possible (trans, oil cooler, cooler lines, torque converter) for a complete flush. But that's just me... I'm not a transmission professional, but that's what I've concluded based on all the different information I've gathered in my research of this issue.

[Francis740]

Fairly new here, so here goes,
Just purchased my 1/94 740iL E32, with 147800kms. Had a trans change under warranty at 55000kms (1999), no reverse gear. PO had a trans service 22000kms ago, but communication with said service people leaves me doubting it. Reading numerous hreads here about trans issues, and one mentione dthe "E S M" switch causing funny happenings. Mine was a bit grubby and rough to switch, took it out yeterday and cleaned it, different trans today,does not hang in # when cold, or surge intermitantly. NO idea, but it is different.
Having a trans service on 21/8, and will be using Castrol Transmax Z. This trans guy I have known for ages, and works on heaps of European units, and uses this oil without issues. My Jag collegues with similar trans and problems to us, use him and do not have problems, unlike others that follow the dealer blurb.
Grant