Followed BMW Lifetime ATF recommendation, did zero maintenance and auto trans. is fine.
Followed BMW Lifetime ATF recommendation, did zero maintenance and auto trans. failed.
Did an ATF drain/refill w/ BMW specified ATF fluid and auto trans. is fine.
Did an ATF drain/refill w/ BMW specified ATF fluid and auto trans. failed.
Did an ATF drain/refill w/ non-BMW ATF and auto trans is fine.
Did an ATF drain/refill w/ non-BMW ATF and auto trans failed.
USMC--
IMHO, you may be joining the group whose trans failed after a change with the correct fluid. But is that because you changed the fluid? Is it because you used the BMW fluid? No, it's because your trans was already dying (slipping). IMHO again, it's too late for you.
You could hope the slip is caused by low fluid, that minimal damage has been done, and it will be OK after a change.
I have many years experience in car/truck fleet management, running fleets of up to ~350 vehicles. However, my opinion is non-scientific, and if you ask 100 fleet professionals what to do with your car, or what you should have been doing the last 130K mi, half of them will say you should have been changing regularly and half will say it's a waste of time/money.
GE Capital Fleet Service, probably the largest maintenance management network in the country, with a tremendous amount of data and systems to analyze it, says not to ever change trans fluid. In the average American car/truck you spend $150-$200 each time (every 25K mi is the typical interval for light trucks in commercial service), and have a day of downtime on that vehicle (with associated costs for that). On average, transmissions fail at whatever mileage the statistics say, and repairs cost whatever the average trans cost is, and it's cheaper to just let it blow up than do all those fluid changes. And maybe you'll be one of those who beats the average anyway.
OK, that's what the stats say, but they also say to trade the truck in every ~80K miles because the numbers show that's the best combination of depreciation, resale value and repair costs. Damn the statistics, I'm not a business, I'm not trading the car in, and until today I've always (30+ years) done it myself.
Today, for the first time ever, I paid someone to change my trans fluid in my personal car. It's my wife's 02 330Ci with the ZF. (140K mi, never changed before AFAIK, and definitely not changed since we bought it at 100K - I've been meaning to do it for a long time) My BMW indie buys the fluid by the truckload, so I got the correct fluid for $15/L and he did all the hassle. Best $240 I've spent in a while. The trans worked perfectly before the change, it works perfectly now, and I expect it to stay working.
My other BMW is a 97 528 with a GM trans. I bought it REALLY cheap @ 160K. The seller believed it had a bad trans. It would barely move, and clunked and jerked badly when it did. Turns out it had a big hole in the cooler. I put in a new cooler, filled the trans with Castrol import fluid, and it's worked fine for 20K miles. Well, the first couple of shifts after cold startup are delayed, but by the time I get to the first traffic light it's 100% fine.
Best of luck with yours. Thanks for your service...
kevin
Last edited by CharlieFoxtrot; 08-28-2014 at 06:49 PM.
You should use the Castrol regular ford/GM one instead of the import one. The import one is lower viscosity and meant for like Honda and Toyota. What I did was use Valvoline maxlife the first one, which is also low viscosity because the trans had 167k on it and was very thick gunk oil, and then the second service right after I used Dexron 3/ Castrol regular ford/GM which is thicker and like OEM spec. Works perfect, the thinner viscosity seemed to have more power, but I don't think it's good for reliability.
Sorry and thanks, I may be remembering wrong. For sure I used whatever I was supposed to be using.
kevin
I was about to start a new thread about my Tranny experience when I saw this thread. My 01 X5 E53 V8 Auto had a bad shudder usually going uphill between 2nd and 3rd. I took it to one Tranny mechanic and he told me the clutch had gone and I would be up for $2k+ to fix it. I decided to take it to my local mech just to change the fluid and put a new filter in (and new gasket). He panicked when he saw the 'Do not service' stickers all over the tranny and he phoned BMW who told him he (I) would have serious problems if we went ahead and did it so I left it for a week or two then went back and told him I would take the responsibility if anything went wrong. He changed the fluid and filter and two days later he drained it and replaced it again with Penrite Full Synth ATF FS (Australian made). At first I had still had the shudder but it wasn't anywhere near as bad. After a few weeks the shudder is gone altogether. I have done two or three 200 KM trips since the service. My Mechanic did not use the gasket because he said the old gasket was 'Hard' (it doesn't leak anyway) so if anyone lives in Victoria Australia and needs a transmission gasket I have a new one! I should thanks those who on this forum who advised me in the first place to go ahead and do it. Thanks guys. Edit Post Reply Reply With Quote
Thank you to the OP for starting this thread. Last year I had my Indy drain and refill my 2000 528iT @ 93K miles. I have the A5S360R GM trans. 7 quarts. I paid dearly for the BMW liquid gold trans fluid. $475 for a pan gasket, filter, fluid, and an hour or so of labor. Never again.
2000 528i Touring - 102k miles
2003 Z4 3.0 Sport Premium - 49k miles
2006 325i Sedan - 69k miles
BMWCCA 478976
I have a car for everything !!
I don't know if it matters. I think that this whole thing is blown out of proportion because the Import marques want to maintain their exclusivity.
Back in the day. In the US. Before the imports. You had a GM, Ford, or Chrysler car. If you had a GM, you had a Powerglide, Turbo 350, or a Turbo 400. They all used the same fluid. It was red. If you had a Ford, you had a C4 or a C6. They all used the same fluid. It was also red, but it was called "Type "F". If you had a Chrysler, it was a Torqueflite. Chrysler said use GM or Ford fluid. Even when the 90's rolled around, and overdrive became ubiquitous, the GM Turbo 700-R4 still used GM fluid, Ford moved to the AOD transmission and still required Type F. Chrysler still didn't care. They all used the same technology to build automatic transmissions.
Somebody has to convince me that there has been some significant change in the way automatic transmissions are made and operate. They still use torque converters, they still use the same clutches, and bands, and valve bodies, and planetary gearsets. They are hydraulic power transmission devices. Yeah, maybe the tolerances have improved. Maybe the friction materials have improved. Electronic solenoids have been added. But they still follow the original design concepts developed in the late 1940's.
2000 528i Touring - 102k miles
2003 Z4 3.0 Sport Premium - 49k miles
2006 325i Sedan - 69k miles
BMWCCA 478976
I have a car for everything !!
1998 740i 104000 miles no fluid change trans worked fine then @%$!@ . no sign of trouble either. change the fluid/filter before its to late
E83 2008 2.0L turbodiesel 125,000 KM transmission fine ,no atf change yet but just found Aussie ATF manufacturer who specifies equal to ZF Lifeguard 6 so atf change coming up soon. Manufacturer is Nulon. They have new synthetic Multi Vehicle ATF
(SYNATF) recommended replacement for ZF Lifeguard 6. Compatible with old fluid so any left in torque converter won't be a problem. Only took me two weeks on line to find it. I think the fact that the major oil companies put on their charts "refer to dealer" is a disgrace and smells of col*#"+%n in my opinion. ZF list 11 vehicle manufacturers + Ford and commercial vehicle options who could use this spec ATF. It is beyond my belief that someone is not pulling the strings so I won't buy OEM on principle. You make up your own minds.
Last edited by Peter Warren; 02-10-2015 at 02:49 AM. Reason: More information.
'96 E38 750iL (12 cyl), 164,000 miles. Original fluid..... got a trans program fail. SnapOn scan, nada, second scan with AutoLogic - slipping torque converter clutch. Oil analysis: contaminated oil. clutch particulates present. Slightly above the parameters. Not noisy enough to hear in the car, but detectable with a stethoscope from underneath. Replaced T/C, filter and Pentosin fluid. Conforms to the BMW / ZF spec. Full replacement. $280. Total bill $1400 plus the oil. 10K miles another oil analysis, no particulates, virtually metal free, recheck in 25K miles
THe frictions in the transmission are designed with a controlled amount of slip and the oil is compounded to be compatible with the frictions. ANd it's not only the viscosity, it's the entire additive package. Without a viscometer, I'm not sure a person can detect viscosity differences in transmission fluids. Maybe, but I sure can't. Other oils, Shell, and of course ZF, the transmission manufacturer are compatible. As for the rest ????? I am constantly amazed at how much a manufacturer knows about the product they produce, how it is engineered and what they recommend for the lubricants and replacement parts.
Will other oils work, sure, will it last as long as the manufacture speced oil? Probably. Am I going to take a chance on early failure (If you consider 179,000 miles early) and replacement of a transmission costing as much as the car is worth, in spite of the condition it is in? I don't think so.
I'll have the oil analyzed again at 200k if I still own the car. THe car cost 80K or so new and I bought it four (Yep four. Due for brake fluid and annual coolant change in June) years ago and with all the repairs needed I'm in it for a little less than 10% of what it sold for new. It has never given me any trouble. The T/C replacement took two days and the car has never left me, (see below) nor have any major components or convenience items failed. For me $280 for the correct transmission fluid is a bargain.
Full disclosure: I overhauled the front and rear suspension. Control arms in front and ball joints in the rear. Parts, the only cost. I did the work myself. $400 to repair water damage to the relays beneath the ECUs. Those needed repairs were reflected in the purchase price.
I get an occasional engine program fail without going into limp mode or setting any codes. I did replace the pedal position switch at the request of the diagnostic program and it still does it, but no more Pedal, etc code. It's been doing very infrequently and I now consider it a feature rather than a defect. Could be the cruise module or possibly a wheel speed sensor, but until it goes into limp mode I'll live with the occasional announcement.
Last edited by tcom; 04-14-2015 at 09:58 AM.
1985 635Csi. B35 engine, M5 flywheel. Dinan Stg3 susp. short shifter, big brakes style 32's
1996 750iL 12Cyl. Box stock
2000 M Roadster. Box stock
1984 Alfa 2000 Spyder.
Changing the fluid is always advised but is by no means a guarantee. On our 2000 540iT the trans had been worked on at 60K before we purchased the car due to loss of reverse (I believe the reason the original owner got rid of it). I had the fluid changed at the dealer again at 100K miles. At 120K miles was getting random Trans failure codes solved by replacing the brake switch. At 141K total loss of forward gears due to the front clutch drum cracking. This was a piece of metal, the fluid had nothing to do with the failure. $5K to rebuild the trans, $1K less than the value of the car when working. As this trans seems to fail every 60K miles, currently at 155K I plan on dumping the car before it hits 180K. The M62TU engine while noisy (vanos knock at idle, they all have it) runs perfectly.
I just changed my ATF with Dex VI in my E46 with 15000 miles on it. Was starting to feel a little different but nothing bad so I decided to just try it and see. I could tell it had been done once before and when I drained the old stuff it was dark but still not smelling bad. Also, the pan didn't have very much crap in it and the magnet cleaned up without too much effort. My transmission is back to being silky smooth now and I'm very happy with it. I'd have to say doing it at regular intervals will keep you transmission very happy for many years of service, pay no attention to the pan sticker!
Changing the transmission fluid is one of those things I had always meant to do when I bought an automatic car in June this year. I did not get around to doing it before it was destroyed in a head-on collision with someone trying to beat a light to turn left in front of me.
So: I bought a 2006 325xi and had the transmission fluid changed today, 8 days after I bought it. So far it seems to be a positive - it was noticeably quicker in first and second gear, and it took 8 quarts of fluid - this just after a drain, not even a pan and filter replacement.
Will update later - I'm going to drive it for a while and then do another service, this time with a pan/filter replacement.
No need to change again, converter only holds 1 quart (was that on my X5 anyway and shows in Bentley manual)so you about 90% of it the first time. Not like the old days when there was 4 or 5 quarts in the converter. Some guys (after finding that out) and still want to change the filter will save the oil and put it back in.
- - - Updated - - -
I think maybe the poll should be only for higher mileage cars though so that it isn't skewed by people with low mileage saying they have never had problems and didn't change oil. Also "Drain & fill" is different then "Flush"
'98 E38 740iL with 5HP24... bought at 133k, probably never serviced (green "lifetime" [ha!] sticker on trans). At 140k I did two drain & fills back to back. First one was quite dark brown but not burnt-smelling. A little metallic fuzz on the magnets but no chunks of anything. Then a drain/Filtran filter change/fill with Castrol Transmax Import (LT71141 compatible, $18/gal at Walmart). So far, it's going strong at 151k
'98 740iL E38 201k, TCG at 190k, 5HP24 at 195k
'97 540i/6 E39 Dinan blower & stage 1 suspension 114k
'93 525i E34 "Golf Ball" (hail damaged) 334k
Just talked to my mechanic about this. Since the car has just rolled 100k, it's a coin toss on the change. Going to roll the dice and have this done. He was going to check the fluid first. If it's too dark and crapped up, no change, just drive it till it quits. If the fluid is decent, then he'll change it. Hope this works out for the best.
I have bmw 335I 08 the car is sooooo bad... However yesterday I replaced the auto tranny fluid because it start to shift hardly and the slippage are abvious between gears. After replacing the tranny fluid with the filter my car start making whining noise and it is gradually became louder so I took my car to another mechanical shop which he specialized in German cars and he up my car and saw that the tranny fluid are leaking but I replaced the fluid and the filter after that is began to leaking!!! He told me that the filter is not original and we have to replace it so that we take off the filter and my car lose 4 liters of oil in one day!!!!!!! So we replace all of the fluid that was existed and put new one with new filter and the transmission now working smoothly and correctly thanks God. please take care of your transmission fluid because when the start making noise from the transmission so there is a leaking from the filter. To be informed my car 105k and now it's very smooth and quicker gears. Hope that will be useful for you.
I've got a 1999 750iL. I need to do something to stop the whine that I get when tranny shifts from second gear. Checked the fluid level, not sure if I did it right. Could you give me some advise about how to check fluid corectly? And info on best fluid and filter on tranny with 89,000 miles. Not sure if it had been changed before me. I havent even put 200 miles on tranny since becoming owner. Would carfax help? I am dying to take my car out on the highway. It is the NICEST car I have ever owned. It is Beautiful. Thanks.
I'm having serious issues with the autobox on my 92 E36. Slips before engaging into 1st and slips on sharp turns and curves. Could my fluid level be low or needing new fluid service? Tried to do smog test but test keeps aborting because apparently it takes the wheels longer than usual to slow down after gas is released. Going crazy with this. Has aborted test 3 different times already.
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E36 NON Vanos and Misc Parts for Sale
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I've got a e61 530m it's a 2007 and it's got 160000 and still running fine
I have a 2003 525i with 274,600 miles with original transmission fluid and filter. Will actually be performing its first transmission service in the next few weeks, going to drop the pan and replace the filter, fluid and install an updated pressure regulator from transgo (these are known for the valve bodies boring out and blowing reverse drums etc..) so the new updated pressure regulator will prevent that. Other than that, never had any trans issues, shifting and running fine her whole life. Mainly just highway miles.
E60 525d 2006
Changed when bought at 130k
Meyle ATF plus 6 oil and sump
Think general concensus is if u abuse it change it every 50k miles? Sealed for life is only useful to the ppl that trade it in after 3 years for a brand new one lol
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After reading this entire thread--whew! i need a drink but.... I have just purchased my first BMW a 2001 525I wagon--95K on the clock all service records present--It runs and shifts like a dream boat--so after doing some base line services engine oil ,plugs, all filters, windshield trim etc I had come to the transmission decision--so I read this entire thread
I decided to call the independent BMW tech that had taken such good care of this car to date--all he does is BMW
They first knew the car--and at once asked if I wanted to sell it ( good sign) so then I ask what to do--They replied
ZF trans --do the service
GM trans --jump with joy and forget about it
I just let the jack down and I have the GM Yahooo!! They said it was rebuildable-- ZF not so much and if it was theirs they would not touch it since it was dry as popcorn zero leaks , etc and shifts like it belonged to Jesus ( or insert Sky Man of your choice )
I am going with that advice---only the future can tell
They advised that absent any coolant leaks or coolant needle movement of any kind to wait to about 120K and then do a total cooling system rebuild then plan on enjoying it until I was tired of it
I have had lots of experience with different cars and trannys--My dad's love of Crown Vics taught me that you buy a nice one with shaky trans for cheap--replace fluid with the FORD brand and you had a unit that would make an old man happy for years to come
And that my Dodge Ram trucks HATED other brands of fluid and would always return to smooth as silk operation after factory fluid refill
My dragster with a Powerglide likes Type F better than Dexron--why? I don't know but I don't care to bother with the details
My judgement is that a well known BMW only service guy that knows my car said leave it alone--my life experience says change the fluid--but being new to BMW and the fact that it shifts better than any unit I have ever driven says this is one time to leave it alone
Last edited by dusterdave173; 07-02-2018 at 06:15 PM.
I'll have a ZF any day over the GM . And I'd damned sure change the fluid and filter on either one.
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
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