Stick rests at 5th gear when cold

[JLee]

Does anyone have the time or experience to set up a registry ??

i would but don't know how ?

[paul e]

I think maybe a msg should also be left on the E36 (non-m3) forums as well. I dont think we know for a fact that all the E36s arent subject to the problem. And, what about the Z3s and Mz3s, etc. Dont they all use the same ZF 5 spd transmissions?.

[BrazeauRacing]

Tell ya what... if everyone on the affected tranny list will send me their detailed information, i'll create a comprehensive list and post it in a subdirectory of my website (with a link back to this tread). It won't be an official "registry", but it'll be better than a screen name and year model list. You can either PM or e-mail it to me.

EDIT-updated
*First and Last name (include your bf.com username if e-mailed, so i'll know who you are)
*Geographic location (city, state)
*Year and production date of car
*Stock or aftermarket shifter
*Fluid used, and how often it's changed
*Mileage when symptoms started
*anything else that might be useful

Once i've created the list, i'll post the link, and i'll keep it updated when people send me more info.

[RenaissanceMan]

You know, it wouldn't be a bad idea to forward threads like these to Roundel or BMWNA or whoever, to show them that this problem is WIDESPREAD. I wouldn't expect them to read the whole thread, but we should keep bombarding them with this issue. The registry idea is great; we should post info on other sites, as well.

[///M3 2 NV]

I had the dreaded problem with the nut on the oil pump coming off and destroying my engine! BMWNA was useless and more than likely the same will happen with this problem.

So I guess the entire drive train for the ///M3 is overall a poor design! First the engine and now the transmission!: : :

[nydog]

I got a reply from Mike Miller at Roundel. Here it is:

I've never seen this problem myself, but I can offer two bits of advice. First, I've never encountered the cold shifting problem that could not be solved, at least 90%, by draining BMW's factory fill oil and filling the gearbox with Red Line D4 ATF. The D4 ATF is key, not Red Line MTL, which is for older gearboxes, and not regular Red Line ATF -- D4 ATF.

However, cold shifting complaints usually center on the 1 to 2, and 2 to 3 shift. This problem seems more mechanical.

Second, if there is a mechanical part worn, we're not going to know what it is until someone inspects the exterior shifting parts, and maybe removes the gearbox for teardown and inspection. As one poster noted, it is probably simply a faulty part that needs to be replaced. BMW dealership do not open gearboxes anymore -- they replace them. You have to find a good independent BMW tech or gearbox rebuilder.

The problem with these forums is, there are a lot of drivers and not many wrench-turners. You can speculate all you want, but there is a solution and it needs to be found. You can buy the parts to fix it, that much I'll guarantee.

Thanks for the kind words about Roundel!

Best regards,
Mike Miller

[BrazeauRacing]

The new comprehensive list is located here:
http://www.brazeauracing.com/tech/transmissions.htm

Send me your info if you want to be added to this list! And feel free to link to this page from any forum, e-mail list, and web site.

[paul e]

>> got a reply from Mike Miller at Roundel. Here it is: <<

Yea, but, is he going to publish your letter?! I agree with him that, if I were off warranty, and I didnt want to go forward with trying to 'compel' the dealer or BMW to cover this repair, rather than just paying the 2300 bucks to replace the transmission, I would probably go to a bmw independant who had experience opening up the affected parts, in hopes that he could find the problem and fix it at considerable savings.

However, he apparently doesnt understand the problem, as evidenced by his assertion that hes never seen 'the cold shift problem' that cant be cured 90% of the time by fluid replacement. Obviously, hes talking about the problem some people have with putting the car into first or second when its cold. Thats a very different 'cold' problem then the one we are having with the gates. But then he seems to begin to understand it when he says, 'but this seems more mechanical' and mentions warn parts, which sounds much more like it.

[///M3 2 NV]

We all know that this is a mechanical problem! The issue is that BMW NA or none of their dealers is willing to identify the problem so we can get it fixed. They just want all of us to buy new transmissions!

[mcornwell]

Dealer just called me (left the car last night so it'd be nice and cold when they drove it), and the service writer says it's the "Shifter Bushings" that is causing the problem, and that parts and labor are $400 to cure the problem. Parts are not in stock, but he can overnight them and have the car fixed by tomorrow.

I gave them the go ahead to do the repair...

I'm guessing this *won't* fix my problem, but I'm willing to try it for this price. What's my recourse if the the problem is exactly the same as it was before?

[Jim O.]

Originally posted by BrazeauRacing
Once i've created the list, i'll post the link, and i'll keep it updated when people send me more info.

You also might want to track what transmission fluid people with the problem are using, and the intervals that they're changing the fluid...

Jim

[paul e]

>>I'm guessing this *won't* fix my problem, but I'm willing to try it for this price. What's my recourse if the the problem is exactly the same as it was before?<<

What are the shifter bushings? Wouldnt it be nice if that fixed the problem? I guess I dont understand how the bushing could cause the disappearance of the gate, which I thought was a spring controlled mechanism. Besides, why would some dealers go through the expensive of tranny replacement when it could be fixed for just a few hundred bucks. Mike, your gate disappears completely; its not just sticky, right? So now we'll have to wait and see if these bushings fix it. But, since youre paying for it, have you asked them what will happen if that doesnt fix it? I mean, I cant imagine them charging you for a fix on a missed diagnosis. Theyll just have to leave the new bushing in, and not charge you for parts or labor. And if it does fix it, then youve found an inexpensive remedy for all those that are off warranty. Hope it works out well..

One more thing Mike... Did they actually SEE anything which led them to the diagnosis they came up with? I mean, did they see warn bushings? The response I heard in my case was that the techs reported that they could see the car hadnt been abused or treated improperly, because there were no unusual parts that appeared warn, etc. So, it sounds like they did some checking around, and didnt just assume it needed a new tranny without checking related components first. I suppose it is possilble that in your case, they might have seen warn bushings, leading them to conclude that this is the problem, when in reality, it could be that the bushings ARE warn, AND the transmission needs replacement, in order to solve the gate problem. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.

[RenaissanceMan]

Well, I think before I do anything else, I'm going to replace my shifter bushings and foam tension bushings to see if that helps. With 85k on my car, it can't hurt. The Rogue Engineering website has the procedures outlined. I'll definitely be posting results after I do the job. I probably won't be able to get to it until next week, though. I'm happy to be the guinea pig on this attempt...

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by BrazeauRacing
Kevlar and ///M3Matt, what year are your M3's?
[/B]

I'm finally going through this thread again... 6pages?!? Damn...

My car was a 1998 M3 and my ex-gf's 328is was also a 1998.

[M3Buff]

Alright, I'm in too!

99 M3 - 49 K miles, just started noticing this over the past few days, with the weather starting to get cold. 2 - 3 shift first thing in the morning puts me straight into 5th. I can almost feel the shifter sliding beyond the 3rd gear slot. Doesn't bother me much though, as this lasts only for a few seconds and once I get it back into 3rd, works normally after that. But then, my transmission has always had this 'somewhat tight' feel when it's cold.

[paul e]

>>99 M3 - 49 K miles, just started noticing this over the past few days, with the weather starting to get cold. 2 - 3 shift first thing in the morning puts me straight into 5th. I can almost feel the shifter sliding beyond the 3rd gear slot<

Yup, that it! Its that fifth gear gate which is the guide for third gear. With it gone, its all feel from there.

>>beyond the 3rd gear slot. Doesn't bother me much though, as this lasts only for a few seconds and once I get it back into 3rd, works normally after that<<

Thats how it starts off. After awhile, youll find that the gate disappears for longer and longer periods. It was up to 20 minutes, and now, it seems to be gone most of the time.

>>to see if that helps. With 85k on my car, it can't hurt. The Rogue Engineering website has the procedures outlined. <<

I think there were a couple of posts from guys who tried this repair as a remedy. They found though, that the problem with the gate persisted, unfortunately.

[///M3ryder NY]

has this been posted over at DTM yet? Maybe a link should be put there....

[M3Buff]

Originally posted by paul e
>>beyond the 3rd gear slot. Doesn't bother me much though, as this lasts only for a few seconds and once I get it back into 3rd, works normally after that<<

Thats how it starts off. After awhile, youll find that the gate disappears for longer and longer periods. It was up to 20 minutes, and now, it seems to be gone most of the time.

Oh, great! : I'd better get myself the extended warranty and soon. The factory warranty is almost over, and I'd been slacking off on looking into getting an extension.

[BrazeauRacing]

You also might want to track what transmission fluid people with the problem are using, and the intervals that they're changing the fluid...

good point... so here's the info i'd like from everyone affected:

*First and Last name (include your bf.com username if e-mailed, so i'll know who you are)
*Geographic location (city, state)
*Year and production date of car
*Stock or aftermarket shifter
*Fluid used, and how often it's changed
*Mileage when symptoms started
*anything else that might be useful

[BrazeauRacing]

Okay... the list is updated with all the info that everyone has sent me so far, and includes the previous "username/year" list. If i've missed your info, have anything incorrect, or you want to be added, just let me know.

http://www.brazeauracing.com/tech/transmissions.htm

[///M3ryder NY]

Originally posted by BrazeauRacing
Okay... the list is updated with all the info that everyone has sent me so far, and includes the previous "username/year" list. If i've missed your info, have anything incorrect, or you want to be added, just let me know.

http://www.brazeauracing.com/tech/transmissions.htm

Looks great, good work. Though I have to say to all who sent in info...part of the purpose here was to compile a list of NAMES, not bf.c screennames...we already had that info. Don't be bashful fellas, no harm in your real name being put on the list, it can only serve to help us in the future should some sort of action need to be taken. I think everyone should get in their REAL NAMES to Chuck asap. : Just my .02!

[BrazeauRacing]

In everyone's defense, the ones that have their real names listed are the only ones that have contacted me privately. Everyone else's data i compiled from their posts and by looking at signatures, profiles, and websites.

[///M3ryder NY]

ahhh, i see... OK! Just making sure....

[SI///M3]

Just PM'd all my info, hopefully this list will help some people eventually...

[Madd96///M3]

Ok, im not sure i have the same problem or not, or maybe i have that problem and another problem as well. In any event, when i first got the car i would sometimes put the shifter into 5th instead of 3rd when racing, but i learned to compensate for it, and assumed it was just my inexperience at stick causing the problem. That seems to be the same thing you guys are talking about, but this happened under hard acclleration more often than when it was cold. Yesterday it was the coldest its been so far this year where i am, and it was also raining. I pull my 96 M3 out of the parking space, and it shutters some as if its going to stall. I stop, make sure i have the parking break down and stuff, and then just give it more gas and burn the clutch a little puling out. It seems fine. At an intersection i put the car in neutral and release the clutch. There is NO tension whatsoever in the stick, i didnt want to shift all the way from neutral to any postion, but i could easy move the stick halfway or more inbetween any gear. When the light turned green, i put it into first, with the clutch, and hoped for the best. It drove, but i was still worried none the less. Resistance in the shifter resumed towards the end of the drive. I have no idea what is going on. I can only speculate, and i dont even know enough to do that.