Stick rests at 5th gear when cold

[mcornwell]

I'm taking my '98 into Brecht BMW in Escondido (No. San Diego) tomorrow (Tuesday) evening, where I'll let it sit overnight, for a Wednesday apoointment.

If anyone has any info on diagnosis/fixes, I'd love to hear it. I'm 8,000 miles out of my warranty, so a dealer suggestion to replace the tranny will really hurt.

[LateApex]

WOW. I posted on this several months ago, but didn't realize just how many people are affected by this. :

Here's some data points:

My 9/95 M3 did this. It only had about ~30k on it when it started happening.

At first, it was like everyone here described it; 1) happened in the mornings when the tranny was cold. 2) after 10-15 miles, the tranny warms up and the problem went away. 3) problem STAYED gone until the car cools over night.

After 3-4 months of this; one day the tranny just gave up. Even after the tranny warms up, THE SHIFTER NEVER RETURNED TO NEUTRAL. Basically, it sat in the 5th gear 'dog-leg' slot warm or cold.

My local dealer replaced it with a reman under warranty. My M3 was in the shop almost 15 days while they waited for the tranny to arrive. : I went through 3 loaners.

I now have a 4/98 M3/4. The car has 55k on it and IS DOING THE SAME DAMNED THING. I'm expecting my dealer to R&R the tranny on this one too.

Those of you who have this problem and still have a warranty, I urge you to make your dealer aware of it, quick. It will only get worse.

-Apex

[slvrm3]

paul e- they said they could only fit me in next week so i drop it off tuesday and they figured 4 days. i'm getting a check eng. light which they were supposed to fix last week and called them up today and to the service manager i've had it with them and that this better be taken care of. they gave me a loan for 4 days next week, and i told them that they would not get the laoner back until my car is fixed 100%. they said i cant do that but we'll see. i've had it with bmw. their dealers treat you like shit as far as getting service goes, they bitch and try to get every little penny they can get out of you, their technicians in my opinion are lazy as well as have little triaining and are careless, and the attitude there is horrible, i've never seen anyone actually smiling at this place. i love my m3 and do not want to part with it, but the idea of me buying another is scaring me. do i want to deal with having constant problems,and horrible service or should i look at something else. they told me that my case is very rare, but im finding more and more about people having un-ending problems with their bmw both new and used. the only way to get anywhere seems to be with an attorny but you will lose more money then you would gain. this is this dealers and bmw's last shot. paul e i might be taking a trip to greenwhich if i get another m3, the drive is worth the good service you seem to get.

[paul e]

told me that my case is very rare, but im finding more and more about people having un-ending problems with their bmw both new and used. the only way to get anywhere seems to be with an attorny but you will lose more money then you would gain. this is this dealers and bmw's last shot. paul e i might be taking a trip to greenwhich if i get another m3, the drive is worth the good service you seem to get.

Slvrm3, I know exactly what you mean. BMW does a HORRIBLE job in policing their dealers. Which just says to me that they dont really care that much! Even Competition is not great, as far as Im concerned. They did perform above and beyond on the shock towers. But there were other times when I think they went out of their way to get me for every penny. For instance, the car was in for some other stuff, and I wanted them to fix a vibration the intake tube was making somewhere, but I couldnt find it so I asked them to help me with it. Dont you know, they clipped me for a whole hour simply to move slightly the intake pipe which they said was hitting the wheel well! One whole hour of charge. Now, I sprung for 21 hrs labor to instlall the Dinan supercharger kit, Plus another small fortune for the Dinan suspension. Dont you think they could have adjusted this Dinan intake tube for me NC? But nooooo. But honestly, I will gladly forget all that if they do whats right tomorrow. It always scares me when they say they havent seen something before, becuase first, their likely to try useless things like fluid change. So, we'll see. If they wind up not doing the right thing by me here, I'll be right behind you in dropping bmw like a hot potatoe. I will say, though, that the Dinan mgr there is excellent. He always seems to side with me over any issues regarding whether coverage should be given or not. I dont know how much influence he has over the srvc shop though. Hes mostly interested in the business I send his way. The shop guys dont seem to care all that much. Im getting very tempted by the '03 SVT Cobra anyway, and from what I hear, most SVT dealers treat you better than alot of BMW dealers! What a sad joke. Wish me luck.

[///M3ryder NY]

keep us posted as soon as you hear from them today Paul. Is that all it's in for?

[paul e]

Ok, Fellers, this is what youve been waiting for!

Just heard from my dealer, Competition BMW in Greenwich. My srvc writer, Bernard, says, well, you might as well come and get the car. I says whats up. He says theyve been looking at it all day, and they believe it to be something inside the transmission, and the only remedy for that they can invoke is to replace the tranny with a new one from BMW. I say, tremulously, ' you guys are covering that, right?'. And he says..........................

YES!!!!!!

He says come on down now and pick it up, and we can make an appt for a bout a week when the replacement is expected. Also, John (Dinan mgr) wants to talk to you about maybe using this time as the right time to install a Dinan clutch upgrade.

So, all I can say is, these guys really are good. The fears I had re the ssk, and the extra boost and power werent justified after all. Not even mentioned.

My faith is reaffirmed in bmw, at least for the time being.

What a load off...Whew. I think this could have cost near $5 grand. Maybe more with installation. I really dont know. Hey..maybe I use the savings to upgrade the clutch? Naw..I dont think so. Clutch is really behaving well now. No signs of slippage.

Halleluja!!!!!!!!!! IM sorry for shouting...IM just so excited. ive been on pins and needles for days now.

[///M3ryder NY]

great news Paul, congrats! I guess I'll have to keep a very close eye on mine, and when the problem progresses a bit, BANG....hit em up on my CPO warranty.... and if Pace BMW won't do it, I'll go to competition, and say "well, you did it for Paul E."....

[TiAg ///M3/4]

Congratulations, Paul! Nice! You're on CPO, right?

[paul e]

CPO? Nope...Still on new car warranty for 5K more miles, or 9 more mos.

[Jgent]

Really wish there was an answer to this other than a new tranny.

[mcornwell]

Yep, I agree. I have a 4 year old, $50,000 car with 58,000 miles on it, and it needs a new tranny already?

If this was an isolated case with the M3, or if I was driving a car that wasn't as expensive as the BMW, I could possibly understand it, but there was definitely a manufacturing/design defect that is causing this for so many people.

I just dropped the car off to the dealer, and will know more tomorrow, but I'm 90% sure the service writer is going to call me and tell me I need a new/rebuilt tranny. The car functions fine now (except for the annoying 2nd --> 5th shifts when it's cold), but when I sell it, no buyer is going to want to inherit a potential headache like this, so I might as well fix it now.

Oh well, I didn't want that new 40" Sony XBR...

[paul e]

>>but when I sell it, no buyer is going to want to inherit a potential headache like this, so I might as well fix it now<<

Mike, not only that, but Ive heard from a few guys who have had the problem longer, and theyre saying that after a while, the gate disappears all the time, not just when cold... So I think the fix is necessary to have done. I would encourage those guys not under warranty to try and force bmw to cover this anyway. Its apparently a pretty serious problem effecting more than a few users. If they decline, I would look into seeing if a class action would be useful under the circumstances.

[RenaissanceMan]

You guys have got to be f@#$ing kidding me. This sticking problem is only solved by REPLACING THE TRANNY????????????? I can't believe that's the case. Why isn't this simply an issue with the shift rod/springs/whatever? If this problem is this epidemic, I have to say I've lost some respect for the engineering of this car. I have what appears to be the same problem on my '98, and it's intermittent. Add me to this ridiculous list.

Have any of you guys even tried to change the foam tension bushings mentioned earlier in this thread??? Come on... There's got to be a much simpler answer than this. If there's not, we need to petition the crap out of the BMWNA, BMWCCA, etc., until this issue is resolved. I am blown away at the number of people up here with this inexcusable problem.

[paul e]

>>You guys have got to be f@#$ing kidding me. This sticking problem is only solved by REPLACING THE TRANNY????????????? I can't believe that's the case.<<

It may sound strange, and my initial reaction was the same as yours, but, after alot of research, youd better believe it, cause thats whats going on.

>>Why isn't this simply an issue with the shift rod/springs/whatever?<<

Because its not a Linkage issue; its a Transmission issue. Weak spring and warn parts inside the transmission means new tranny needed. Bmw tells dealers do NOT open these up and work on them, but replace them instead. More cost effective for them in teh long run.

>> I am blown away at the number of people up here with this inexcusable problem.<<

Yea, its pretty big. My theory is that when it first appears, most guys dont notice it because alot of them live about 15 minutes from the throughway, or where theyd likely use fifth gear. When the car's cold, if you dont use fifth, and dont smack the shift lever over to the right, youre not going to notice it unless some says to check it. After 15-20 minutes, youre on the throughway, but the gate has come back, so you dont see the problem. But..... After a while, it seems that the problem occurs more often, and eventually, the shifter just stays over to the right as its permanent rest position. All the shifter is doing is manipulating the transmission connection to find the gates. When the springs which make up the gates wear out, bend, deform, or do whatever it is theyre doing, we get the current situation. BMW is apparently handling this on customers' cars as it occurs, rather than alarming the whole community by sending out TSBs, warnings, and what nots. But clearly, if you dont notice it til after 50K miles, as has bappened, youre going to be hopping mad. Again, does the term Class Action mean anything here?

[RenaissanceMan]

Has anyone had any positive experience (saying prayers here) in which the dealer replaced a tranny with this problem on a car out of warranty which has had multiple owners? (That's me).

If not, how much is a reman tranny for a '98 M3??? If I get one, I'm going to install it myself, gosh darnit!!! :

[slvrm3]

paul e- with you knowing my current situation, you know im well past lawsuit point. but me being just short of 19 years old, most lawyers i believe wouldnt take up my case. the sad thing is i know i would win, the service and problems i ahve had are that of a car built by a caveman. bmw should be ashamed that they can let one of their flagship models out of the garage without solving jack and causing more harm. this transmission thing had blown up to perportions that seem to stretch to every single e36 m3. this is unacceptable, period. i've ahd it with bmw's shit, dealers rape customers, horrible service, rediculous prices for getting not service but more problems. something must be done and i am working on figuring out what i can do to do my part. what i've gone through most people would of packed up by now, but i want to make a point on behalf of the customers. anyone's idea's as to what should be done about this matter and all other matters in question i would greatly accept.

[nydog]

for the hell of it i sent an email to Roundel Tech Talk asking about this problem and pasted a link to this thread. maybe this will give this issue the exposure it needs and get something done about it especially for people out of warranty

[JST]

Originally posted by RenaissanceMan
Has anyone had any positive experience (saying prayers here) in which the dealer replaced a tranny with this problem on a car out of warranty which has had multiple owners? (That's me).

If not, how much is a reman tranny for a '98 M3??? If I get one, I'm going to install it myself, gosh darnit!!! :

To look on the bright side, it might be a good excuse to upgrade to a lightweight flywheel and a six speed.

[Jgent]

Any one try contacting BMWNA or is that just a waste of time?

[///M3ryder NY]

Originally posted by nydog
for the hell of it i sent an email to Roundel Tech Talk asking about this problem and pasted a link to this thread. maybe this will give this issue the exposure it needs and get something done about it especially for people out of warranty

Great idea... And I'll say this....If your email doesn't make it into an upcoming issue of Roundel....then I have one thing to say...."Conspiracy!"

Originally posted by JGent
Any one try contacting BMWNA or is that just a waste of time?

I have a family friend at BMWNA, I just might have to give him a call. Also a friend of mine owned a BMW dealership in the Bronx up until a year or so ago, maybe I'll tap him for some info....seeing as he owns a Veedub dealership now, he just may feel free to spill the beans...

[BrazeauRacing]

JasonJ75 - '98 M3
SI///M3 - '99 M3
neenja - '98 M3
Kevlar - '98 M3 (previous)
TiAg ///M3/4 - '98 M3
///M3 2 NV - '99 M3
Bernman - '94 325is
TedK - '98 M3
Jgent - '98 M3
Hellrot Sachin - '99 M3
Gatorbait - '98 M3
///M3Matt - '94 325is and '9? M3
paul e - '99 M3
slvrm3 - '98 M3
joeyc - '98 M3
///M3 NA - '98 M3
///M3ryder NY - '98 M3
JST - '98 M3
mcornwell - '98 M3
vjlax18 - '98 M3
phid_bombadier - '95 M3
Hellrot - '98 M3
Jim Bassett - '98 M3
ebm34 - '98 M3
CKim - '99 M3
LateApex - '95 M3 and '98 M3
RenaissanceMan - '98 M3

Totals:
19) '98 M3s
5) '99 M3s
2) '94 325is
2) '95 M3

[paul e]

>>Great idea<<

I agree. Roundel tech forum is a great place to get it some publicity. I would put something in your letters about not assuming you dont have the problem if you have over 35K miles on it. I think there are alot of guys, and I was one, who, until we were told to go out and check the car, just had never actually seen teh problem because our route takes us such that by the time we are ready to use fifth gear, weve' already been driving long enough for it to have warmed up. I drove for over a half hour yesterday, though, and it just never centered at all! But in the tech forums, just ask people to go out and check fifth gear, a couple of times when cold, and see if it centers. Until I did this test, I never knew I had it! I think that, even if warranties have expired, that really doesnt fully exonerate BMW. A transmission, or an engine, being the two major components in the car, are expected to last longer than the warranty period. Call it an implicit warranty if you wish. I believe that if enough people are effected, which I believe they are, and are vocal enough, a class action against bmw would go along way toward getting some kind of compensation from them. There are many cases against various auto makers similar to this where the company has had to pay. I remember once, when I owned a '95 Volvo 850 Turbo, even after I traded it in for my M3, I received an official check in the mail from Volvo of America for about 500 bucks. Apparently, I was named as claimant in a class action against volvo, for what I cant even remember. But I seem to recall something not too different than this. These things Can bring satisfaction!

[slvrm3]

contacting bmwna will be a nightmare from what i've been told by someone at a dealer. they told me your better off not even trying. roundel would be a great idea

[JLee]

Count me in on that list...my shifter started doing it in Sept and has been progressively getting worse. though when i slap it to the left it does center again....for now

maybe we need to spread this among other forums and gather a couple hundred names ? its gonna take alot more to get BMWNA's attention right ?

be glad to help in anyway i can

jeff

[///M3ryder NY]

I think we should post links to this thread on other forums to try to get the list going more.

I also think if someone is willing, it would be a good idea to start getting people's actual names together in a word document or something. With vehicle model/year info, etc.... Perhaps the person who's updating the list wouldn't mind doing that? and everyone can PM him their info....