Stick rests at 5th gear when cold

[paul e]

>>I've read this whole thread and just knew MY car wasn't going to have this problem. I live in warm So Cal and my car is garaged so I thought it wouldn't do it, but 1st thing this morning I tried it and the damn thing stuck under 5th gear. After exactly 15 minutes it was back to normal. I still had the gate between 3 and 5th but for how long?<<

It may go on like this for several thousand more miles. After about 40-45K, the gate will be gone totally for at least the first 15 minutes.

Question really is, are the remanned units theyre giving us as replacements going to be subject to this defect, or, are they more likely to be without it. If the problem came with the ZF model change in sept, '97, maybe we'll be lucky enough to get a unit rebuilt from the new parts that went into making the earlier models. Dont suppose we could request this, though.

[slvrm3]

NYDOG-"why don't you find another BMW dealership to do the service on your car? i think you said before that the dealership you go to is close to you, but if they're always giving you a problem or they misdiagnose the problem it seems like its more headache than its worth"

the reason is very simple. i have called every other bmw dealer in ct but the one paul e is dealing with. no other dealers want to look at my car since it has dinan stuff along with the fact according to them they don't want to get involved in big stuff unless i bought the car there. no other dealers will give me a loaner car, and with me currently with only the m3 i wouldnt have a ride to college or work without the loaner. to add to this the dealer paul e is going to is over an hour away, a major distance considering i have this dealer literally 50 feet behind my dads house. i can look out the window and see it, so i should not ahve to drive almost to ny for service.

[jds7717]

I firmly believe that if I hadn't run across this thread I still would not have noticed this problem.

My commute masks the problem and I'm willing to bet that a lot of other people have this same problem but just haven't noticed it yet. I bet if everyone woke up in the morning and went out to the car and pushed the shifter to the right against the 5th gear gate, a lot more people would chime into our discussion with great interest.

[paul e]

>>I firmly believe that if I hadn't run across this thread I still would not have noticed this problem<<

Wanna hear something funny? This is kind of ironic , being one of the most vocal members of this thread and all, but, when someone first brought this up on another list, I resisted like crazy. I said, naw, thats not what I have, etc, etc. Because, I didnt know that the shifter rested under fifth, because I had never seen it do it. All I had experienced was the sticky feeling of the shifter going across the gate. But I was always able to nudge it back. ONly when someone convinced me to try fifth when the car was cold, did I realize unhappily, that I was as afflicted as anybody else, and ate quite a bit of crow on that digest! So, needless to say, I agree with you completely.

[///M3ryder NY]

Originally posted by paul e
All I had experienced was the sticky feeling of the shifter going across the gate. But I was always able to nudge it back. ONly when someone convinced me to try fifth when the car was cold, did I realize unhappily, that I was as afflicted as anybody else

This is the part that concerns me the most, as far as my particular case goes... What I have now at 32K is only the "sticky gate". I've tried on many a cold morning and night to engage 5th gear and actually see if I can make it either "lose the gate" or re-center itself under 5th....but it seems my problem hasn't gotten there. Now, my fear is....if this problem DOES not progress further quickly enough, and I run out of my CPO warranty (5/04 or 100K)....I'd be screwed possibly... I guess I'll be going in to BMW for this soon, but I have my doubts about getting a replacement tranny if my problem is only in the early stages still.

[RickyN F355]

x

[kapolani]

I tested my buddy's 95 M3 to see if he had the problem - he didn't. When I pushed his over to the right it would stay there for a moment then slowly work itself back into center (it would move slowly then just pop back).

I stated before that my car didn't exhibit the problems that some of you are explaining - missing 3rd and hitting 5th etc.

We'll see what happens down the road a bit. I still have 3 years on my warranty and 45k left on it.

[ASCH MAN]

Just got a new tranny, they have like a super spring in 5th now. It takes quite a bit of pressure to push it over there now. Not as much as reverse, but close. So don't worry about the new ones.

[kapolani]

Okay - I'm sure you guys have tried this, but I don't see it mentioned.

First - did anyone try this when the weather was still warm? Did it exhibit this problem then?

Secondly - has anyone changed their gear oil?

Reasoning - the gear oil is pretty thick so I'm thinking that the cold weather is the culprit. Fluids, when they are colder, become more dense. The viscous oil could be causing the shifter to become "stuck" under fifth until it warms up.

I'm going to change my gear oil and see what happens.

[RickyN F355]

Called Warranty Gold. They are going to work with my dealership....doesn't seem like it will be a problem.

[paul e]

>>has anyone changed their gear oil? <<

This has already been tried, to no avail.

>>Just got a new tranny, they have like a super spring in 5th now. It takes quite a bit of pressure to push it over there now. Not as much as reverse, but close. So don't worry about the new ones.<<

That's really great news. IT was a big concern for me if they gave us basically the same tranny all over again. BTW, do you recall what kind of guarantee the remanned tranny you got came with?

>>Now, my fear is....if this problem DOES not progress further quickly enough, and I run out of my CPO warranty (5/04 or 100K)....I'd be screwed possibly<<

Chris, Id be worried too. But, I think that with 1.5 yrs or 65Kmi left in the warranty, odds are pretty good that youll be fully affected in time. How many miles per yr do you drive? If, by chance, you dont, I think there's a decent chance that you might get a new warranty anyway. You could always make a deal with John to the effect that youll buy his SC kit if they replace your tranny under warranty first!

[ASCH MAN]

Originally posted by paul e
>>has anyone changed their gear oil? <<

This has already been tried, to no avail.

>>Just got a new tranny, they have like a super spring in 5th now. It takes quite a bit of pressure to push it over there now. Not as much as reverse, but close. So don't worry about the new ones.<<

That's really great news. IT was a big concern for me if they gave us basically the same tranny all over again. BTW, do you recall what kind of guarantee the remanned tranny you got came with?

Yes, he said it has a 1 year warranty with it. Now if the problem returns after 35K, then I am basically screwed. Oddly enough, the warrantied the clutch and quibo for a year too. They all were replaced at the same time while they were down there to save some money, 1 hour labor on the clutch, and 0 labor on the guibo. My car had 60K so I figured it was about time for both. However, I thought that wear and tear items are not covered. Oh well, if they are not defective parts, they *should* last much longer than a year.

[paul e]

>>They all were replaced at the same time while they were down there to save some money, 1 hour labor on the clutch, and 0 labor on the guibo.<<

Yea Audioman, Im doing a Sachs sport clutch at the same time to save on the labor. But I hadnt considered the guibo. I think that's a good idea too. I'll have to tell them to do it. I just called them, and they'll have a guibo there for me. HOw much was the guibo?

[ASCH MAN]

Originally posted by paul e
>>
Yea Audioman, Im doing a Sachs sport clutch at the same time to save on the labor. But I hadnt considered the guibo. I think that's a good idea too. I'll have to tell them to do it. I just called them, and they'll have a guibo there for me. HOw much was the guibo?

I want to say it was right around $100 from the Dealer. It could probably be found a bit cheaper elsewhere, but I didn't want to complain since they would charge me no labor to replace it. They said that mine was OK, but "seemed really dry". Don't know what that really means, but I figured just do it now and never worry about it again. The clutch kit was a bit more expensive, but the job was about half what it would be since labor was almost nill. Good luck. The new tranny is very nice. The shifter is much more smooth now (well it was until the short shifter was installed), and the clutch pedal was a bit easier to press in.

[CMT]

This looks like a very serious problem, especially with the 98-99 M3s. I just went out and tried it on mine, a 97, and another 97 M3 that is in my driveway, and both shifters pushed definitively back to the left after being moved 1. right to the point just under 5th gear and 2. right to the point just under 5th gear and upwards just before 5th gear is engaged. Both times, the lever returned dead center of the boot immediately. My 97 has 80,000 miles on it, and the other 97 has less than 60,000 - and neither exhibited the symptons associated with this potential headache. The only thing mine does is slightly clunk when it is cold, but that goes away after five minutes, and has done it since new.

Audioman - they just replaced my guibo under CPO at Tulley BMW in New Hampshire. My service writer couldn't believe that BMW covered it.

[M3*TR]

Originally posted by CMT
[B]This looks like a very serious problem, especially with the 98-99 M3s. I just went out and tried it on mine, a 97, and another 97 M3 that is in my driveway, and both shifters pushed definitively back to the left after being moved 1. right to the point just under 5th gear and 2. right to the point just under 5th gear and upwards just before 5th gear is engaged. Both times, the lever returned dead center of the boot immediately. My 97 has 80,000 miles on it, and the other 97 has less than 60,000 - and neither exhibited the symptons associated with this potential headache. The only thing mine does is slightly clunk when it is cold, but that goes away after five minutes, and has done it since new./B]

My 1997 M3/4 63K miles has NOT showed symptoms
either of problem people talking about ie.
mt shifter DOES return from 5th to neutral when cold.
Are we the only ones..................
maybe driving style is another factor?

[nydog]

Originally posted by slvrm3
NYDOG-"why don't you find another BMW dealership to do the service on your car? i think you said before that the dealership you go to is close to you, but if they're always giving you a problem or they misdiagnose the problem it seems like its more headache than its worth"

the reason is very simple. i have called every other bmw dealer in ct but the one paul e is dealing with. no other dealers want to look at my car since it has dinan stuff along with the fact according to them they don't want to get involved in big stuff unless i bought the car there. no other dealers will give me a loaner car, and with me currently with only the m3 i wouldnt have a ride to college or work without the loaner. to add to this the dealer paul e is going to is over an hour away, a major distance considering i have this dealer literally 50 feet behind my dads house. i can look out the window and see it, so i should not ahve to drive almost to ny for service.

i understand now

[mcornwell]

Picked up my car from the dealer today.

I was charged for the new shifter bushings (their misdiagnosis), but it was only for the $25 or so in parts, not for the $400 in labor that would have gone along with it if the tranny wasn't replaced (see my earlier posts, BMW agreed to pay 50% of costs, being that it was only 8,000 miles out of warranty).

Car shifts like it did when it was new, I hope it stays like this for a looooong time...

Good luck to the rest of you, especially if you are out of warranty.

[paul e]

>>Car shifts like it did when it was new, I hope it stays like this for a looooong time<<

Congrats Mike. Judging from the recent post on the '97s, it really looks like that subtle zf model change in 9/97 had the defective part to effect all units after it. Im hearing that the spring in fifth on the remanns feels stronger than the original tranny we got, from a guy or two whos had the replacement. I dont know if yours feels this way, but lets just hope they are good enough NOT to replicate the screwed up part in the remakes. BTW, Im having a sport clutch installed at the same time, but, now, Im also wondering, do you guys think having them install a new Guibo would be a prudent thing to do too? I think the part is around $100, but labor should be near nothing I would think. Is it a good idea? Ive read of more than a few going out.

[hal9000]

Originally posted by Hellrot Sachin
Paul - my car is sorta stock.. Engine-wise, just software, CAI, and exhaust.. maybe pullies in the future. I talked to them about aftermarket parts and they said they wouldn't honor the warranty if the aftermarket part (ie: supercharger) caused direct failure of a component. Also, they don't send someone to the shop for a claim to be honored. If the mechanic will fix it and send you a bill, they'll pay just the same. WG says that they don't have problems with shops honoring their plan (either specialty shops or dealerships) as long as they're ASE certified and follow the Chilton's manual for labor time and such. I haven't contacted any shops to see what they feel, but WG says they pay the shops immediately w/ a credit card so there isn't a reimbursement delay or anything. It all sounds nice, but I don't know.

HRS

I've yet to have any issues with WG. So far, I've had the cluster, Vanos, Primary and secondary tensioners replaced under warranty. It seems that there's really not an issue with approving repairs until the repair exceeds $1000 or so. Over that, WG will send out an independant adjuster to approve/disapprove the issue. Of course, I'm taking it to the local BMW/Audi/VW/Porsche dealer here in town, and they really haven't had any issues with a real warranty repair on a non-modded car (ie no FI). I've got the 100K/$0 deduct for 7 years (yeah right, I'll make it 7 years) Diamond Policy. Don't know about the lower ones, but it's been pretty cost effective for me considering I was planning to get the tranny replaced because the syncro's between 1st and 2nd are pretty much shot. I figure the first time I've got any major component failure (AC/Trans/Motor), I've got it covered.

[paul e]

>>and they really haven't had any issues with a real warranty repair on a non-modded car (ie no FI). <<

And that's the problem. Naturally, I wouldnt expect WG to cover anything if it went wrong with the Supercharger itself. But my fear, not ungrounded, is that if my transmission problem occurred when I was off factory warranty and my only coverage was WG, they would probably send out an adjuster because its an expensive repair. And when they saw the Dinan sourced and installed Blower, theyre likely to say the transmission needs replacing because it had to endure extra power it wasnt meant for, and the claim would therefore be denied. And I believe this would be an attempt to shirk their duty by picking on a spurious issue. I believe they are looking for ways not to pay. And if a car's power train is upgraded, they will use this as an excuse. Even though this tranny problem is occurring in stock and non stock cars alike, and even the dealer is certain this type of transmission issue has nothing to do with the power put through it. If I were certain they would have covered this tranny problem despite the supercharger, then I would have no problem buying their plan. I have no problem with them denying a claim if we are sure the aftermarket part CAUSED THE DAMAGE, or CONTRIBUTED SIGNIFICANTLY TOWARD IT, but I think that just the fact that an aftermarket part is involved which upgraded the basic design of the car or the system involved, they will withhold coverage. And this, by the way, is in direct violation of the Magnusson Moss act, which makes this kind of warranty refusal illegal.

[racea911]

Do I call my dealer and tell them that my stick rests under 5th gear when the car is cold? (as if So Cal is really ever that cold) Do I just expect the service writer to welcome me in for my shiny new transmission installation covered under warranty.

This will be my first ever BMW service visit since I bought my CPO 99 M3 in June. I have all the old paperwork from the previous owner and he took the car in at about 10,000 miles to have the "notchiness" in the shifter fixed. The dealers reply about the shifter was "operates up to manufacturers spec". Translation, "still feels like crap, but we aren't fixing it" I have to say that this is the worst feeling stick-shift I have ever driven in my 20 years of driving stick. And by the way this is the nicest and most expensive car I've ever driven. I always thought that my 2000 Audi A4 had a weak feeling shifter until I got the M3. I LOVE this car though! I just don't want to pay for a new trans, if it really needs it. I'm at 35,000 miles and CPO's until 2005, original warranty until 5/03.

[hal9000]

Originally posted by paul e
But my fear, not ungrounded, is that if my transmission problem occurred when I was off factory warranty and my only coverage was WG, they would probably send out an adjuster because its an expensive repair. And when they saw the Dinan sourced and installed Blower, theyre likely to say the transmission needs replacing because it had to endure extra power it wasnt meant for, and the claim would therefore be denied. refusal illegal.

Maybe, but seeing how Dinan/BMW are pretty much recognized, I'd say if you took it to a DINAN BMW dealer, especially the one that did the original or similar installs, they'd be willing to go to bat with WG for you. Bottom line is that the adjuster will talk to the tech's and get their opinion on it (heck the adjuster may not know that the system didn't come factory with a SC). If you're in good with your techs, you shouldn't have too much issue getting it resolved. In other words sucking up to your local Service Writer/Lead Mechanic will generally make your life much easier...Ask me how I got a cat replaced for rattling in the double pipes under BMW warranty...

[paul e]

>>Translation, "still feels like crap, but we aren't fixing it" I have to say that this is the worst feeling stick-shift I have ever driven in my 20 years of driving stick<<

I presume this is the stock shifter? Please descibe more carefully what it is that you hate about your shifter? If it is that you feel the throws are too long and a little 'rubbery' in feel, that can be alleviated with a good short shift kit sourced from a number of reputable after market sources. I always wished my E36 M3's shifter felt more like the M roadster I had sampled. The installation of Ron Stygar's Short Shift Kit, in my case, resulted in wish fulfillment :--) AS for the tranny issue, if you have the problem, just explain to your dealer that until the car is warmed up, the gate describing fifth gear is missing and the shifter comes to rest under fifth instead of centering. If he doesnt suggest it, then you suggest to him you leave it there overnight, so they can examine it first thing in the morning before the car's warmed up. And then see what they find. If you need to, you can always explain that hundreds of people with '98s and '99s have the same problem and most dealers are remedying it with a new transmission.

[paul e]

>>they'd be willing to go to bat with WG for you<<

Im fully confident that any srvc writer or shp owner I worked with would not volunteer any info about the supercharger. But I have heard from many such srvce writers and shop owners that, in cases where repairs are over $1000, or when the administrator feels that something 'isnt right', ie, the damage he feels is unusual, or is occurring too early, etc, he will insist an adjustor visit the premises to investigate the parts and the car himself. He usually brings a list of equipment that is stock for that year and model, and goes over it, looking for anything which might have 'contributed' to the damage. The contract specifically states that if it is felt by the company's adjustor that an aftermarket part 'increased the liklihood of failure' of the involved part, then claim is usually denied. I just cannot imagine an adjustor saying that an aftermarket supercharger, which causes 50% more horsepower to go through the powertrain, didnt contribute to a transmission failure, even though in this case it is agreed by all the srvc people Ive talked to, it had nothing to do with it! If it was broken gears, or some other catistrophic type of failure, then its a different story. But unless the warranty company is very liberal with its payout strategy, I just cant see them overlooking something like this. I might be too paranoid about this, but Id just hate to pay 2 grand only to discover I didnt even have a chance right from the beginning because of my upgrades. I guess I could always cancel the contract at any point, and recover the prorated portion of the contract if I found this to be the case, which wouldnt be too bad. I dont know....Im having a real hard time deciding. I just spoke to another independant this morning who Id like to give my repair business to, who didnt have any bad things to say about the companies he's dealt with ...He couldnt even recall a case where he had to work with an adjustor, and thousands of dollars were involved. One was called National Carcare, and the other was an AAA extended warranty.... I just dont know..