Ram-Air Headlight Bucket?

[Holeshot]

I'm thinking of getting one of Turner's ram-air headlight buckets for my track E36. Has anybody ran one of these? What do you do about the air filter setup? I currently have a Dinan CAI; I imagine I would have to sell it and use something different...

[krisko]

I personally wouldn't bother, especially if the CAI is on the ground anyway. There is no noticeable performance gain and I prefer the looks of the car without it.

[Steve J.]

If you fab up an intake for it, and have an intake track that can take advantage of this setup (i.e. large plenum with no MAF) then its worth it.

Also, what class is the car for, as this will put it in a higher class (i think its still structured that way).

And I assume this is a track only car, as its not street legal.

[Holeshot]

Track only car, used for driving schools. I realize it's not a huge power gain, I'm mainly looking for ideas on which CAI is best to use in cunjunction with the vent or if homemade is the way to go.

[magnetic1]

If you fab up an intake for it, and have an intake track that can take advantage of this setup (i.e. large plenum with no MAF) then its worth it.

Also, what class is the car for, as this will put it in a higher class (i think its still structured that way).

And I assume this is a track only car, as its not street legal.

Im no good at fluid dynamics... (maybe you can help Steve)... exactly how fast would you need to be going along with respective RPMs to even have "RamAir" provide any gain at all?? Id think you'd have to be going pretty darn fast.

[Steve J.]

Pretty much, to overcome the "vacuum" thats already there will atleast take 100mph with air going direct into the TB, so MAF, and bends, etc would hurt it. Pretty much it won't help at all There are not many applications where "ram air" actually will produce extra power, there are however applications where it can be an optimal setup, but optimal pretty much means "not as restrictive."

I'd say concentrate time on other things, and forget about the headlight.

[kentd98]

seems like this might be what you want:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PiperX_viper/

[Steve J.]

That is a pretty small filter. For an Inline filter i'd suggest the 15" PRM inline intake.

[vodomagoo]

yeah that pipercross filter is prob wayy way to small for the displacement of our cars. I'd say I wouldent go for it if your looking for power (headlight intake) without engineering a good filter set up along with it

[B.Watts]

As Steve mention, a "ram air" setup isn't going to help with the stock intake setup anyway. It *might* help a bit if you have a straight shot from the intake hole to a larger volume intake manifold, using a large in-line filter. In the end, there's no way to measure whether it helps or not, besides keeping track of air/fuel ratios as speed inscreases. Once we have our intake manifold and get the motor tuned up, I might have to run a little test to find out if there really is more air entering the system as speed increases.

[Steve J.]

Bryan, you don't need a test to show it...air will enter faster at some point (prob 120+), but so marginally, it will not be adding any noticeable pressue. Put your hand over the intake and rev the motor, it has some pretty strong vacuum/suction. As long as your plenum is designed well, you are good to go, as long as the filter or inlet is not restrictive, there are no issues. But those motors like the plenum volume for sure...hell even just adding on the INline filter (compared to open plenum, no filter) gave 4whp across a pretty wide rpm band, it was very interesting.

[B.Watts]

Bassen's car sure looked like it just kept picking up power as the speed increased. We'll be running the same air plenum that he had at VIR, but with a better flowing head and cams to take better advantage of the additional air. Hope to have it back together and tuned up for the VIR NASA race next month.

[Steve J.]

Bassen's car sure looked like it just kept picking up power as the speed increased. We'll be running the same air plenum that he had at VIR, but with a better flowing head and cams to take better advantage of the additional air. Hope to have it back together and tuned up for the VIR NASA race next month.

Yea, it'll pep the motor up for sure! Bassen should not pull away once the head/cams/plenum/tuning is done, no way! Who is going to tune it? (I still got the map for it for when you need to tune again).

[krisko]

Speaking of the whole ram air concept, I might have before/after dynos of the MPact L boot (between MAF and engine). They advertise 7hp...we shall see.

[B.Watts]

Dang Krisko, you're already making 20+ more hp than us with your "IP" motor (quotes used because of the rules change). I'd be interested to see how that boot works out, even though we're totally bypassing that sort of stuff with the carbon intake plenum.

[krisko]

The way I see it, if it makes 7hp (with my engine MPact thinks up to 10hp) then it's the cheapest $200 I ever spent.

As for my 'built' motor, I know of at least 2 other IP cars that are making more power. Besides, I have a built CM motor now.

[B.Watts]

Yeah, I know. Those IP motors are impressive. We're working just to keep up with IP guys on the straights, much less the Stickley's of the world.

[Steve J.]

I wonder how tough it'll be to cram the V10 into the E46 M3 engine bay...V10 has dynoed at 425whp+...stock haha

[kentd98]

That is a pretty small filter. For an Inline filter i'd suggest the 15" PRM inline intake.

yeah that pipercross filter is prob wayy way to small for the displacement of our cars. I'd say I wouldent go for it if your looking for power (headlight intake) without engineering a good filter set up along with it

[soap box]

I'm not going to claim to know anything about intake design, and maybe the thing is too small, but your *guess* that it is *too small* is no more valid than my *guess* that it is *too big*. Either you trust that UUC engineered the intake/filter properly for a certain operating point, or you don't. But to look at a pic on their webpage and then opine that an air filter/intake combo is 'prob wayy way to small' [sic] is, well, frustrating to read in the track/autox forum.

[/soap box]

If techno550 has taught us anything, its that bigger is not always better!

My $.02.

[Randy305]

The way I see it, if it makes 7hp (with my engine MPact thinks up to 10hp) then it's the cheapest $200 I ever spent.

As for my 'built' motor, I know of at least 2 other IP cars that are making more power. Besides, I have a built CM motor now.

You know of "IP" motors making more than your acclaimed 330hp... If that is a true statement, I need to get back to the drawing board.

Ok who is it that you "know" that is making that kind of HP

[krisko]

You know of "IP" motors making more than your acclaimed 330hp... If that is a true statement, I need to get back to the drawing board.

I can't speak to crank hp but there are IP motors in the 285 whp range which is same or more power than my car is making. I would NEVER highlight these motors in a public forum as the slime campaign would be never ending.

These motors are being built to the rules and I tend to believe they are legal (but then I still believe my motor to be legal to 2004/2005 rules).

You don't need to go back to the drawing boards for anything. I'm pretty sure you beat other IP cars by 1-3 seconds per lap and won every race you entered (except for mechanicals of course).

[mmills416]

I've got a headlight intake system with a carbon plenium with a 5 " opening. I use an EFI system with a MAP sensor. I have never seen any increase in the air box preasure in any of the data. We looked for it plenty. I still believe that there is a benifit. Your getting flesh air ramed into the intake with no resrictions. At least there is no negative preasure in any of the data.
I just got the real Groupe A motorsports Airbox. After I run it I'll let you know.

[maranelloman]

Mills, word to the wise: EFI blows chunks.

Seriously. 100% money wasted.

[osborni]

If the car is just for DEs would the risk of ingesting something bad into the motor be too much for a ram air intake? Even with an inline filter? Rain and water for instance?

Stock airboxes have the baffling to keep water out.

Though I do think it looks cool.

[krisko]

If the car is just for DEs would the risk of ingesting something bad into the motor be too much for a ram air intake? Even with an inline filter? Rain and water for instance?

That's a real possibility though not so much for rain or water. I took two pebbles into my radiator and numerous stones on the windshiled...I imagine pebbles embedded into the cone filter can't be a good thing.