Why the used BMW 7-series sell so cheap?

[7il]

All in all..its all about the past owner's maintenance towards the car. If the person treated it right, it should run fine. But in some cases: "The previous owner didn't know the difference between pentosin and ATF, know how to check the coolant, or how to perform a repair without the use of a hammer and pipewrench."

[///M Blitz]

older 7's reliabilty was shit, even up to 2001

the newer 7's are built exponentialy better in terms of materiels used etc, my buddy bought an 02 brand new and has over 100k miles on it, no suspension probs, never touched the cooling system, and no leaky intake gaskets or power steering lines. my 745 has been near flawless too- i never had any of the probs i did with my old one

Are you kidding, your World is upside down. There were no buy-backs of e32s or e38s, but BMW has bought back e65s by the hundreds, maybe thousands. These cars have the worst electrical systems this side of Mercedes. Cars that stop on the freeway and refuse to restart, transmission failures at 5K mi., about 100 recalls. Dude the list is endless. Only the Mercedes S class and any Audi are worse. Since you apparently have an Audi maybe that's why you think the e65 is great.

I think you need to spend some time reading the Roadfly e65 archives. If you and your buddy have indeed had nearly frawless 745s, you are probably the only two in the entire World.

[archyx]

older 7's reliabilty was shit, even up to 2001

the newer 7's are built exponentialy better in terms of materiels used etc, my buddy bought an 02 brand new and has over 100k miles on it, no suspension probs, never touched the cooling system, and no leaky intake gaskets or power steering lines. my 745 has been near flawless too- i never had any of the probs i did with my old one

Reliability problems refer to problems in the longer terms like 5-10 years I think. As for a '02 model car, even a Chevy won't have much trouble.

[audibmw]

Reliability problems refer to problems in the longer terms like 5-10 years I think. As for a '02 model car, even a Chevy won't have much trouble.

bingo!

see what car hold up better after 50k miles, hands down the e65! i had a 2000 7 til 96k and it was non stop stuff breaking, stuff that should never be replaced.

[Gop-Dogg]

I hate lexus they look like a japanese cartoon nightmare. the head lights practicaly touch the windsheild. One fact that cant be denied is they are $50,000+ Toyotas. who in their right mind would buy it. sorry i know this is supposed to be about 7 series but i would take a rusted 7 over a lexus any day.

Aside from your pathetic badge elitism, do you have anything to offer this thread? The quality and reliability of a Lexus make German cars look like tinker toys. That and they depreciate like glaciers. As for funky styling, have you looked at any of the Bangled cars? The latest offerings from Lexus look way better than anything BMW is currently putting out. The only issue with Lexus is that they are underpowered.

[sirtiger]

My 00 LS400 is anything but underpowered. Its quite quick. The isolation from the road makes it feel like it not fast.

There is a disconnect from the road which is a among the ultimate driving machinese here. My 2000 LS400 has LESS problems to date than my two 2003 e39 put TOGETHER. Yes, a Lexus is made by toyota. So what. Its a great car, and I would hold my Lexus to the end its such a great car. It shows in the resale value how people do love their jap cars.

[7il]

Whats wrong with Toyota? Toyata is all about reliability!!!

[Mungrin]

OMG Lexus.Man my friend has a 98 LS400.The ride is sooooo nice.Better than Cadillac. I swear i wish i was rich.I would own a BMW and a Lexus.I like the handling in my BMW but sometimes i love the comfort and soft ride of the Lexus.I owned a 93 SC300 until last year when i crashed it.Man that car was awesome.115k on it and trouble free.Lexus are really smooth and reliable cars.

my 93SC300 that i wrecked

[SMCC]

"he says he would not drive one if someone gave him one for free."

I'm sure he would. He could sell it below bluebook and profit what he earns over a month.

What that mechanic said probably has nothing to do with this, but some of this thread does, and a lot on these boards do. This whole Bangle-bashing deal and the e36 bashing the e38s is already getting old, and I'm still a "newbie" here. I do not understand this mentality. I've been in many financial situations throughout my life, and my life hasn't been too long in comparison with many on this board, but I've never felt this haste towards things and the owners of things I couldn't and can't afford. I can't stand people who try and compensate in such ways.

Short and simple, thats all I should say for now.

Anyways, enjoy what you have AND what you aspire to.

[Dave McLaren]

I think all luxury cars depreciate badly (a relative word, of course). Some worse than others, but I suspect that has more to do with where they are in their MY cycle and how new, or current, the competitors' cars are.

I believe that 3 series fare better than 7 series, percentage-wise, because there are more aspirational young people who want to have a young person's bimmer (relatively speaking) than there are young to middle-age people who want 7s (an "older" person's car).

Add in the fact that 7s have more stuff to repair, and this compounds the depreciation factor on the "older" person's cars, regardless of whether they're 7s, S-classe or similar. Perhaps to varying degrees, but the effect is similar.

It's not that 7s are crap compared to 3s.

For those of the demographic (age, in particular) likely to aspire 7s, they are more likely to consider repair/maintainance factors into their monthly expenditure and conclude that maintainance on a mid-life 7 series (5-10 years old) are nearing the cost of a new 7, or at least a 3 to 4-year-old CPO 7. This is, in part, due to values, maturity and life experience of the typical non-enthusiast car owner.

Me? I'm one of those who like tinkering with cars. I've had bimmers for 16 years and my 7 for about six years. I know what I'm in for and willing to pay the price for repairs. Maybe it may not make much sense on paper, but I like the car, like tinkering with it, and was stupid enough to drop about $7500 last year into a manual trans swap. I'd do it again tomorrow, but I'm in the infinitesimal minority who would do so.

Nothing will change. Big luxury cars will depreciate harder than the small ones, regardless of maker. For guys like me, however, it's fertile feeding ground. At some point, however, my 7 will become partially retired. It's my wife's primary car, and I know something newer will be in order. Probably an E65 which has been through the large part of the exponential depreciation curve. I'll be the one paying the repair bills, though, and I know it and won't complain about it. Cheap to buy-in, but expensive to maintain.

Dave

[///M Blitz]

Aside from your pathetic badge elitism, do you have anything to offer this thread? The quality and reliability of a Lexus make German cars look like tinker toys. That and they depreciate like glaciers. As for funky styling, have you looked at any of the Bangled cars? The latest offerings from Lexus look way better than anything BMW is currently putting out. The only issue with Lexus is that they are underpowered.

Let me start by saying that I think Lexus is a fine car. They are geared towards a different driver than me, but the more choices the better.

But let me make two points. First, I don't get the logic behind paying twice as much for basically the same car. Toyota and Lexus engineers are the same guys, the are built in basically the same place, using the same suppliers and much of the same parts. Why not buy a Toyota, which is also a fine car and save the extra money. As a consumer, I'd feel foolish paying a 25% to 50% premium for basically the same car. My neighbor bought a GX 470 and boasted about it, but was shocked to find out that all he bought was a souped up Toyota Forerunner (sp) for about $10K more.

Second, it's amusing that Lexus drivers come to BMW boards to boast about their cars (and they do by the truck load). Invariably they've never had any problems and its the best car he/she/they have ever owned. I know plenty of people with Toyotas/Lexus who have nothing by problems with their cars, just like people with BMWs or any other high end car.

As far as BMW reliability, I summit my X3. I'm getting ready to take in for the 15k-mi. service after one year of ownership. It has NEVER been to any repair shop - it just runs. Oh yeah, and its a hell of alot more fun to drive than my cousin's Lexus, which has been at the shop about five times in one year.

I summit the following to those Lexus owners that think their cars are without fault.

http://www.mylexus-problems.com/

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/lexus.html

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef14656!make=Lexus&model=ES%20300&ed_makeindex=.e f14656

I say "viva la difference" and enjoy what you drive, but you should be under no illusion that your Uber rice burner is immune to problems.

[Mungrin]

Let me start by saying that I think Lexus is a fine car. They are geared towards a different driver than me, but the more choices the better.

But let me make two points. First, I don't get the logic behind paying twice as much for basically the same car. Toyota and Lexus engineers are the same guys, the are built in basically the same place, using the same suppliers and much of the same parts. Why not buy a Toyota, which is also a fine car and save the extra money. As a consumer, I'd feel foolish paying a 25% to 50% premium for basically the same car. My neighbor bought a GX 470 and boasted about it, but was shocked to find out that all he bought was a souped up Toyota Forerunner (sp) for about $10K more.

Second, it's amusing that Lexus drivers come to BMW boards to boast about their cars (and they do by the truck load). Invariably they've never had any problems and its the best car he/she/they have ever owned. I know plenty of people with Toyotas/Lexus who have nothing by problems with their cars, just like people with BMWs or any other high end car.

As far as BMW reliability, I summit my X3. I'm getting ready to take in for the 15k-mi. service after one year of ownership. It has NEVER been to any repair shop - it just runs. Oh yeah, and its a hell of alot more fun to drive than my cousin's Lexus, which has been at the shop about five times in one year.

I summit the following to those Lexus owners that think their cars are without fault.

http://www.mylexus-problems.com/

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/lexus.html

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef14656!make=Lexus&model=ES%20300&ed_makeindex=.e f14656

I say "viva la difference" and enjoy what you drive, but you should be under no illusion that your Uber rice burner is immune to problems.

every car has its problems.If there was a Toyata version of the LS400,i would have bought one already.

[SMCC]

M-Blitz, 4Runners and GX470's are quite, quite different vehicles. I don't even think they use the same chassis.

[///M Blitz]

M-Blitz, 4Runners and GX470's are quite, quite different vehicles. I don't even think they use the same chassis.

Do a bit of research and you'll see. Same chasis and drivetrain. They share the same 4.7 liter V8, although optional in the 4Runner (rated at 263 hp in the Lexus and 260 hp in the 4Runner). BTW, the LX470 and the Land Cruiser are pretty much the same vehicle.

[Boston Killer]

Isn't LX470 simply a luxo-version of Toyota Land Cruiser, while GX470 is luxo-version of Toyota Land Cruiser Prado?

[SMCC]

Kay, you're right. The body isn't the same, though!

[sirtiger]

Second, it's amusing that Lexus drivers come to BMW boards to boast about their cars (and they do by the truck load). Invariably they've never had any problems and its the best car he/she/they have ever owned. I know plenty of people with Toyotas/Lexus who have nothing by problems with their cars, just like people with BMWs or any other high end car.

I hope you are not referring to me. As I said, I own one lexus, two bmws...and I own a few cars before that. I hang at both Lexus & BMW boards (BMWs way more). Reliabilty wise, Lexus>BMW....esp when it comes to the electrics & gadgets. This is speaking from 1st hand experience.

Of course, no matter what make or models, people will have some problems.... to a degree tho.

[silver50]

I'm sure the GS300 and IS200 are actually badged as toyotas in Japan-perhaps others too

[zurcdrawde]

I believe the depreciation has to do with the the new 7 series making the previous gen look very outdated.

[MichaelY]

I believe the depreciation has to do with the the new 7 series making the previous gen look very outdated.

Many e38 owners would expect their resale values to go up, given their opinion of e65 styling...

[csmith]

Reliability is key in the market these days. I find that the most common person neglects maintenance. It's a fact that peoples mentallities are get in and drive. Maintainence only when there is a problem. IE take it into service or fix it yourself.

If you like the car no matter the manufacturer, you either except what comes along with it or get something else. My 85 911 was more pricey and complex to fix than my '00 740i. Labor is this killer on these cars just due to design and layout. Parts are also generally more expensive, but if you search you can find good deals and dealers will compete below list if you talk with them.

Ex. I had coolant leaking and couldn't find the source so I had my dealer give an estimate on the actual cause I was thinking(WP). They wanted over $1,500 to replace the WP, hoses, belts, & aux electric pump.

I negotiated the parts for around 265 minus the electric pump(I didn't confirm leaking there????). A few hours of my time and it was done.

A big difference on maintenance cost if you have the know how on any repair or vehicle.

There is something about the 7's big luxury and sport appeal. (I have the sport package). Even with the huge depreciation, people think I must be making way to much when they see it.

CS

[MichaelY]

There is something about the 7's big luxury and sport appeal. (I have the sport package). Even with the huge depreciation, people think I must be making way to much when they see it.

CS

that's the beauty of buying a used luxury car. You get just about as much credibility as the dude with a new one, but you paid around 10% of his price.

I started buying Mercedes, Caddy, etc. when I was 17 because I could get a cool car that I could afford ($1500 for my first Benz)--I couldn't touch a decent camaro for that, much less the muscle car convertibles I was into at the time.

So I started buying luxury, and when I finally got the money to buy performance, I realized I wasn't willing to give up the comfort or ride quality for some high-strung, nervous little buzzsaw. So I started moving into luxury/performance with the Mercedes 6.3, which while not as fast on the top end, tears my 750 a new one 0-60, and generally runs with mustangs and older vettes, but with more comfort, more status, and much less money.

I have no problem with the depreciation. It's my friend, because I can buy a 150mph car with a v-12 for $3 grand. I couldn't get a completely thrashed 1982 vette with less hp and nothing but squeaks and rattles for that. Depriciate away! I'll be there to buy them....

[MeanMachine]

I don't want this thread to die just yet, I loved reading this one.

[SMCC]

MichaelY, why would you buy a 10+ year old BMW?

I don't buy an $85k BMW, or even my $300k exotic for creidibility, but I see that's what the people who will buy them from me will buy them for. Poseur?

Don't take offense. I didn't when everyone here implies buying a new "Bangle" is an idiot.

[MichaelY]

MichaelY, why would you buy a 10+ year old BMW?

Because I like them. Like the '69 benz and the '64 caddy and the 356 speedster, there is something about a 750iL that transcends time. And I don't buy a car unless it's fully depriciated because I view it as a waste of money. So the cars I buy have to have something special about them that lets them stand out even after decades--they have to be classic. Read Robert Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad Poor Dad" or "Retire Young Retire Rich" to understand my rationale for not buying a new car--if I'm going to spend big $$ it will be on things that _make_ me money, rather than _cost_ me money. A car is just a cost. That's why I'm down from 23 of them to 5.

I don't buy an $85k BMW, or even my $300k exotic for creidibility, but I see that's what the people who will buy them from me will buy them for. Poseur?

Don't take offense. I didn't when everyone here implies buying a new "Bangle" is an idiot.

A poser buys a car he can't afford, doesn't understand, all to look good. Face it, many people in the luxury market buy a car for status. Fine. If I'm going to make my point and reach them, I have to speak in their language. Look at bimmer owners under 30 and you'll find that many of them are searching for credibility though a car they can't quite afford. Not all of them, mind you, but many. If it's credibility they need, at least they can get it for less money. And I can get something fast and comfortable for less money, too, because if I want to spend $300K, it will be to feed people or do cancer research. Just a difference in priorities, I guess.