M54 in E21

[dmanb55]

That swap looks pretty intense I must say. I would love to get a swap like that up and working. I think I'd crap myself pushing the pedal for the first time...




p.s. Wasn't there a M70 engine put in to an e21 somewhere?

[zak78]

That swap looks pretty intense I must say. I would love to get a swap like that up and working. I think I'd crap myself pushing the pedal for the first time...




p.s. Wasn't there a M70 engine put in to an e21 somewhere?

So they say, but I don't think it's been posted here. So far I've seen the m60 and a couple of s38 swaps. But if you can fit an s38 lengthwise, you can fit an s70. On another note, some guy has an s54 in an e30...
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=431022
How you defeat the drive-by-wire and design your own throttle linkage/throttle cam is a mystery to me!

[himizoli]

My engine is a stock M54. Alpina didnt modify it. It was a overstock.
The engine has 231 Hp/5900rpm and 3000Nm /2900rpm.

The electrical throttle pedal is very simple, as I remember is 4 cables. I am more the electrical guy then a mechanical

The engine mounts arm made me 2 weeks to make it.
I am going to restore the whole car, I am quite luck because it is very nice
shape. It was not so much welding work. I want to make the car as new as possible, but no sign outside about the conversion.
And hit the highway at 140mph

here also some picrure about my e12 conversion
//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/himizolika/my_photos

[DJProfessor]

damn, those swaps are amazing......i was looking at your subframe and i printed off the pic (when you only had the three listed) and the motor mount arm looked custom and the subframe looked stock to me.....so i was right on that........that's most impressive work right there.........and JJ gave you props, but i must give you mad props for all that work......

and keeping it fly by wire is going to be nifty to see as everyone usually converts back to the standard cable set up.....

[himizoli]

Djprofessor:
Thanks The subframe is totaly stock.
Tomorrow I will make more picture above the car.

[jjgbmw323]

Djprofessor:
Thanks The subframe is totaly stock.
Tomorrow I will make more picture above the car.

Hey Djprofessor, the M50 2.5 24v liter will drop right into the e21 323i - using the stock tranny and subframe..so I dont see why a Z4 M54 engine would be any different.

Himizoli seems to be doing a cleaner transplant and with a faster engine than the guy with the yellow 323i and M50.
For those of you who missed the Hack and Crack yellow 323i thread from a while ago - here it is a small taste of it - in all its glory.

Before:



After the transplant:



Notice the chassis cracking, and the hacking to use what looks like too small a raditor in the
front valance. He runs a Jim Conforti chip, yellow hi beam lights, etc..
and this car won an award at Bav Auto show back in the 90s.
Not my cup of tea but to each his own...
I actually liked the car - after the mercades yellow paint job..in the top pictures BEfore the tranplant.

[blitzed310]

Where is the "chassis" cracking? You are aware the E21 does not have a chassis.

[jjgbmw323]

Where is the "chassis" cracking? You are aware the E21 does not have a chassis.

Yeah I know we dont have a chassis.
But still we had a long discussion on this whole conversion before.

Do you see the cracks from the flexing of the engine.^^.
I think these could be welded or something...
I asked the owner of this car about transplanting a e36 m3 3.0 or 3.2 into the
323i - and he said "he did not know if the chassis can handle that type of power."

later,
J

[DJProfessor]

if it were going to crack it would be around where the subframe bolts to the body, not up on the strut towers.......honestly that looks like it has rusted thru (as it is a common place for it to rust)....and has been bondo'ed over and is showing signs of cracking....

[blitzed310]

I dont think that has anything to do with the motor "flexing". Absorbtion would be from the mounts, then the subframe, then to the unibody. The motor would not pose enough stress to twist the body way up there by the towers.

Voted rust.

[jjgbmw323]

I dont think that has anything to do with the motor "flexing". Absorbtion would be from the mounts, then the subframe, then to the unibody. The motor would not pose enough stress to twist the body way up there by the towers.

Voted rust.

Nope. I have seen this car in person, and talked to the owner.
He painted in mercades yellow, and put in VW seats, and 5 series mirrors.

Also we have had a very long thread on this a while ago, with other pictures.
Matthatter said he did not think that it was worth the work transplanting in
an m50 2.5 when there are more powerful engines available.

According to the owner he is using the stock 323i tranny and subframe.
He said the engine went it in a day or two.
It bolted right up to the tranny,
and the wiring was the hardest thing about the swap.


Its not rust. The owner was on roadfly for a while. He lives in NJ.
Prior to transplanting the engine he did not have this problem.

[DJProfessor]

owner is wrong......no way that came about from the motor.....he would have so many other items on that car that would have broken/bent before it would have even messed up anything on the body.....hell even running metal on metal motor mounts i have my doubts about cracking like that that high up on the body....

i put repeatedly too much HP generating motors in my AC dubs and i never cracked anything on the body......now the chassis is another story.

and to top it off the cracks are around the windshield washer bottle......sorry but i think it is a piss poor bondo job that is cracking. reguardless if the guy slapped the seats in and the mirrors on.....

[blitzed310]

Nope. I have seen this car in person, and talked to the owner.
He painted in mercades yellow, and put in VW seats, and 5 series mirrors.

Also we have had a very long thread on this a while ago, with other pictures.
Matthatter said he did not think that it was worth the work transplanting in
an m50 2.5 when there are more powerful engines available.

According to the owner he is using the stock 323i tranny and subframe.
He said the engine went it in a day or two.
It bolted right up to the tranny,
and the wiring was the hardest thing about the swap.


Its not rust. The owner was on roadfly for a while. He lives in NJ.
Prior to transplanting the engine he did not have this problem.

Ok this justifys that there is no rust. Joe, sit for a minute and think how it would twist way up there, it wont. Are you saying the owner told you that it cracked by the towers due to the motor flexing or is this your assumption? Hes creditable because he installed the mirrors and VW seat.

[jjgbmw323]

Ok this justifys that there is no rust. Joe, sit for a minute and think how it would twist way up there, it wont. Are you saying the owner told you that it cracked by the towers due to the motor flexing or is this your assumption? Hes creditable because he installed the mirrors and VW seat.

Guys you are entilted to your opinon.
I am the guy who talked at length to the owner about this swap. IMO its not worth it.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ack+conversion
Like Matthatter mentioned in the other thread, there are better engines to swap than this one. I agree.
I also dont like what he did with the radiator. But to each his own.
Its an example of the fact that the m50 engine can go into the e21.

This car had a number of people around it at the Bav Auto Show and Shine and won an award.

I always am interested in e21 323i (s) and swaps and although this was a good while ago, I talked with the owner 1 on 1 and got the details. He had no issues Prior to this swap, so how could this be rust? Granted it could have been a prexisting conditon that only came out after he did the swap, but I dont know. Also he told me that the swap is as I have said relatively straight foward. His car was not yellow to begin with and thats a mercades yellow color. He can beat a stock e30 M3 and that he runs a Jim Comforti chip. He knows that the e36 engine can be put into the engine bay but expressed doubt that the e21 chassis could handle it.

The 5 series mirrors that I have in other pictures - really belong on a 5 series, but that's a matter of taste, as are the VW seats.

Bottom line:
The owner is credible in that he knows his own car, better than we do.
He can paint it pink with poka dots, its not my car. I dont know the history of it, and I dont know any of the other things he has done to it.
So I believe what he told me. If you guys have other opinons thats fine.

[blitzed310]

lol, nevermind Joe, I give up.

[jrcook320]

Where is the "chassis" cracking? You are aware the E21 does not have a chassis.

I assume you mean frame? The E21 does have a chassis, in our case it just happens to be of unibody construction.

The owner is credible in that he knows his own car, better than we do.

hahaha, yeah right. Any nutslap with money can own a car, and any hilljack can swap a motor. That does not make him any more credible than David Koresh. Think about this logically... What are the things that will make the chassis crack?
1) A motor too heavy for the chassis. OK, maybe. But the M50 doesn't really weigh much more than the m30, and hundreds of E21's, including alpinas have this motor. How about the 4.0L v8 swap we've seen, or the 500 cid big block? I doubt the wieght of the motor is going to cause things to crack.

2) If not wieght, maybe the shear torque of the motor caused the chassis to flex repeatedly, eventually fatiging the metal resulting in a crack. doubtful. How much power is he putting down? A stock 2.5L m50 made around 170. With his upgrades maybe 190? 200? Less than your proverbial 2.8L stroker with knife edged crank will probably make. How about all the m20 turbos, pushing well over 300 hp? Do you see their chassis cracking? No

3) How about rust? More likely than the above mentioned reasons.

[blitzed310]

I assume you mean frame? The E21 does have a chassis, in our case it just happens to be of unibody construction.

Yes in the conventional sence there is no chassis that the body can be unbolted off of. A unibody and 2 subframes is all we get.

[jjgbmw323]

Well. I did not mean to hijack this thread. Sorry.

I dont understand why the owner did not have those cracks welded. They can be repaired.

I agree with the comments from the previous discussion on this conversion, and a 2.8 m50 or greater 3.0 liter would be the one to swap.
Thats why I respect himizoli swaping the z4 m54 engine into the e21.
Thats awesome.

The cracks in the chassis can be welded/ reinforced easy enough. It shouldn't be that much of a problem unless things are rotten. My question is.. why didn't he just go with the 2.8 m50?

waste of money putting in a 2.5L M50. You dont get anything out of it but added weight. Id rather have a stock stroker than a 2.5L M50.

even for 1K it is a waste of money. A stroker made out of stock components would put out more horsepower and torque than a 2.5L M50.

I seriously cant understand what it is with americans and doing M50 swaps. I mean, seriously, look at the figures, anything but the 3L M50 is a lump, you arent getting anything out of the swap by changing engines.


edit: Thats not the standard 323i radiator either. The stock one looks to be larger than that (this one looks like a 4 cylinder radiator), plus the top tank doesnt have a cap.

Can get a bit of an idea for the size difference there.
Nice install all the same

[DJProfessor]

didn't mean to start a flame war in your thread Himmm.....but i will finish it right quick like......i can assure you this cat is making more HP and has no crackie the chassis


but that did bring about a couple of questions to get this back on track......so you are using the 323 subframe correct? wouldn't the motor mount arms off the 323 motor bolt onto the block of the z motor? i know that you can swap over the eta motor into 323's by just swaping the motor mount arms.....i am rusty on my e30's but don't the m50's and the like just bolt right up and in so to speak? (barring a changing of the oil pan and such)......and if that's the case wouldn't that mean that you should be able to take your 323 arms and bolt them to the z motor and bolt that down? just curious why/why you had to go with making custom arms is all......

oh and i retract my clutch comments, i totally forgot you were going with the 323 trans, my brain was thinking 320 and that clutch size.....

[himizoli]

About that yellow M50 swap and craking.

I have a frieng who has already made 2 e21 M50 conversion
One was 2.5 M50 and the other one was 2.8 M52 swap.
And none of them was cracked the place where the yellow car was.
My friend used in amature rally events. The car crashed many times, but the front tower was alwasy good. So I assume only the rust or some accident can made that on the yellow car. Least I thinking like that.
There is a guy in Holland who put 3.2 M3 S52 engine in his e21 with 321HP
whithout any crack.

[himizoli]

I upload more pictures about the project. Manly from the button and the Tranny install

pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/himizolika/detail?.dir=630c&.dnm=9769re2.jpg&.src=ph

[jjgbmw323]

I upload more pictures about the project. Manly from the button and the Tranny install

pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/himizolika/detail?.dir=630c&.dnm=9769re2.jpg&.src=ph

Looking good. Question - you are using the stock 323i tranny correct?
Can you use the Z4 3.0 liter tranny?

And how are you going to get the wiring to meet up with the 323i harness. Can you post a diagram for us fellow owners,
showing which wire to which 323i wire or fuesable link??

[himizoli]

Looking good. Question - you are using the stock 323i tranny correct?
Can you use the Z4 3.0 liter tranny?

And how are you going to get the wiring to meet up with the 323i harness. Can you post a diagram for us fellow owners,
showing which wire to which 323i wire or fuesable link??

I am using e21 sport tranny (dogleg). it has also mechanical speed wire for the speedometer.

I think you can use Z4 tranny.That is shorter than e21 tranny by lenght.
Also you have to frabricate speed signal for the speedo or install a electronic speedo.

I have the ECU pin for M54 end . End of the mont I will have more electrical diagram from Bmw dealer

[jjgbmw323]

I am using e21 sport tranny (dogleg). it has also mechanical speed wire for the speedometer.

I think you can use Z4 tranny.That is shorter than e21 tranny by lenght.
Also you have to frabricate speed signal for the speedo or install a electronic speedo.

I have the ECU pin for M54 end . End of the mont I will have more electrical diagram from Bmw dealer

I would like to see how you wire this converision. As the wiring is key, and can you please make a drawing or diagram about how accomplished this.

With the yellow car conversion his wiring too more than the actual swap.
I think more people will do this swaps if the wiring diagrams where available,
and the differential issue is solved.

later,
J

[MAD LIL E21]

nice car man been looking at all the pics love it
OT:no way that yellow thing has cracked the towers like that with power. i call dogey patch job, al la pimp my ride
i have had the 323i off the tacho many times and havent broken a thing...yet but i don't care changing the engine soon anyway