Are stainless steel brake hoses necessary or overkill?

[Cobra Jet]

Is anyone using stainless steel brake hoses?

If so, what is your car's primary use? Track (auto X or road race), drag racing, or daily driven?

Do you think that installing SS hoses on a daily driven 95 M3 is overkill? I know the only benefit of an SS hose is better inner walls in the hose and it is supposed to improve brake feel when applying pedal pressure, plus of course less likely to "explode" in the event of line failure.

If you are using SS hoses, what brand and where did you buy them? How many, 4 (front & rear)?

Thanks!!!

[jblack]

I have ss Brake lines on my 318 (E36). It is track and daily driver. I hated the feel for about 10 minutes. Now, I can't live without them - possibly best improvement to brakes yet! 6 lines total on the car (2 in front, 4 in rear). Quick and easy upgrade, pedal is much more responsive. I have Earl's lines from Bav Auto.

[fast4d]

Definitely worth the $100. They'll allow you to modulate the brakes much better. Plus it's a cheap mod compare to others.

[Bobby ///M3]

It's overkill unless you track your car. The stock lines are actually pretty good.

If you really want to upgrade your lines, Fischer and Goodridge are excellent ss lines. I use Goodridge because they came with my Brembo kit.

-Bobby

[Rahul325]

I think its an overkill, i have heard that if the stainless stell braiding is damaged, it can puncture the rubber tubing and damage the brake lines. As Bobby mentioned stock lines are pretty good for autoX and daily use.

later...

[bimmer95]

If you get braided lines for a street car make sure you get ones that are coated. On a race car the stainless braided lines are replaced often and protect the lines from being cut by flying debris. However on a street car most people don't think about their brake lines EVER so eventually dirt works its way it to the stainless braids and acts like sandpaper grinding away at the rubber line inside. The coated lines help to keep that dirt out of the braids.

[Texas///M3]

SS brake lines are the first thing I do to my cars and motorcycles. They minimize line expansion thereby maximizing brake response and feel, especially improved when you have been hammering on the brakes and they are hot. I have used alot of Goodridge, Earls are good as well.

[butterm3]

I thought the SS lines for our cars were just very short lenghts that attached to the calipers yet the main lines that run out of the master cylinder remain........so how can upgrading part of the system yield a benefit?


Juan

[bimmer95]

The main parts of the brake lines are steel tubing and do not flex. The rubber hoses between the caliper and the main lines are normally rubber tubes that swell in size slightly when the fluid inside is under high pressure (braking). That slight swelling is felt as a slight softness in the brake pedal. The stainless braiding on aftermarket lines keeps the rubber tube inside from swelling, thus you fell a stiffer pedal under braking. BTW, pretty much every other car in the world is set up the same way with a mix of hard lines and soft lines in the braking system.

[Cannon]

Originally posted by butterm3
I thought the SS lines for our cars were just very short lenghts that attached to the calipers yet the main lines that run out of the master cylinder remain........so how can upgrading part of the system yield a benefit?


Juan

Well, the rest of the system is hard metal lines already. Those aren't going to expand under pressure at all.


I have to say, on a BMW at least, people are fooling themselves if they think that they're going to be able to feel a big difference when they switch to SS lines. I think there's a lot of placebo effect on this mod. I know how modding a car goes, and I know that you always really want to be able to feel a difference in the car after you make a mod, but I've put SS lines on two cars (both M3's) and there was absolutely no perceptable change in brake feel in either case. Both cars were tracked often, and even on the track there is no difference in feel IMO.

I will probably swap back to regular rubber lines on my street car just for the peace of mind. Stock rubber lines just don't fail on a street car. They are very tough. I only put them on my LTW because my Mov'it kit came with a full set.

Chris

[BMLRacer]

Remember that when you add braided lines that they now become consumables. Braided lines are NOT a lifetime part, I replace mine every other year. It's easieast to replace them at th same time that you replace rotors.

Brian

[Dan Wang]

Necessary? No. Overkill? No.

[Stylin]

arent most of the things we do to our cars overkill? I have SS lines front and rear since they came with the UUC BBK.

[butterm3]

so brian,

I am going to have a 2 year added expense?....j/k

Juan

[Bobby ///M3]

Originally posted by Cannon

I've put SS lines on two cars (both M3's) and there was absolutely no perceptable change in brake feel in either case. Both cars were tracked often, and even on the track there is no difference in feel IMO.

Chris

Chris,

You're not driving fast enough on the track

I've had my brakes feel mushy after a day at Willow Springs. It was ~95 deg that day but the track is not at all hard on the brakes. I felt the same thing at Buttonwillow.

For daily use and auto-xing, stock lines are more than enough.

-Bobby
need to change the brake lines now

[Cannon]

Originally posted by Bobby ///M3


Chris,

You're not driving fast enough on the track

I've had my brakes feel mushy after a day at Willow Springs. It was ~95 deg that day but the track is not at all hard on the brakes. I felt the same thing at Buttonwillow.

For daily use and auto-xing, stock lines are more than enough.

-Bobby
need to change the brake lines now

Don't get me wrong, I've gotten the mushy pedal before, but it was fluid related, and not due to the rubber lines. Next event I swapped to Fisher Hydraulik lines on an otherwise stock car, and the pedal felt exactly the same at the end of the day - mushy (fluid was ATE Superblue). It was so bad at Laguna that I was having to pump the pedal once just before the braking zone to keep the pedal high enough to allow me to get to the gas pedal. I never ran out of brakes, but man were they squishy. The Mov'it kit has completely cured this (although at considerable expense).

FWIW, my best times are as follows:
Laguna Seca: 1:49.16 ( completely stock M3 on A032-R's)
Willow Springs (Big Track): 1:41.xx (stock M3 on A032-R's)
Buttonwillow #13 CCW: 2:11.30 (in the LTW on Kumho's)

I know I'm not fast, but I'm not that slow.....

You going to be at the NASA Willow event on Sept 7-8? If so I'll see you there.

Chris