Synthetic Engine Oil - I've made my choice!

**Bob ///M3** · 02-28-2001, 11:24 PM

(This is another post that was made as a follow up to the two part engine oil study.)

After analyzing all the data and discussing different oil properties and related subjects (that were not part of my "oil study") with some of the enginners at a few of the oil companies, I have made up my mind which oil I will be using in the M3.
My viscosity grade choices were the 0W-30, 5W-30, 5W-40, 10W-30 and 10W-40 oils. My "short list" choice of product manufacturers were Amsoil, Redline and Mobil.

I have elected to use Amsoil's 0W-30 oil.

The reasons for my choice are many.

In discussions with Mr. Darren Wallace (Technical Design Engineer and Chemist) of Amsoil Company, he suggested strongly I use the 0W-30 in the M3 for street and track. His suggestion rather suprised me! I asked him, "track too" and he said "most definitely." I will only lightly attempt to explain why he made his suggestion to me.

He explained that BMW engines, as are most others, had very tight engine tolerances for their bearings, etc. He said using the Amsoil 0W-30 would protect these bearings (and the entire engine) better than ANY 30 weight grade oil they have ever tested, including their other 30 weight multi-vis grade oils they offer. The anti-wear additive package for this 0W-30 oil, he said, is simply the best they have ever seen! The chemical make-up of the other Amsoil oils don't allow this same anti-wear package to be used. He also explained this particular oil is better at dealing with the contaminents (hydrocarbons left from combustion), dirt and corrosion, etc. than the other oils.

He said using the 0W-30 would offer unheard of protection at dry start-up where the anti-wear properties, only found in Amsoil's 0W-30, would virtually eliminate the metal-on-metal damage incurred when first cranking up an engine. He further explained that damage results whenever an engine is first cranked up, even if the ambient temperature is 100 degrees F.

There is much more to the anti-wear abilities of this "one oil" but I won't attempt to even try to cover it all. He did admit that no other oil that they have in their line of products, as good as they all are, has the characteristics, properties, abilities, traits and technology that the 0W-30 does. In fact, the way he put it was, "the Amsoil 0W-30 could be five years ahead of the competition!"

He also added that all 0W oils are more expensive to produce and this is the reason most other synthetic oil producers don't offer 0W oils. In the future, he said, this will change in his opinion.

Mr. Wallace further said that this oil is highly recommended not only for street use in the M3 but also in the most demanding and continous high rpm, high temperature, high abuse conditions! He explained many SCCA entries (and other forms of racing) are using it. And that the oil's film-strength, shear/tear properties, anti-wiping protection, lubricating ability, engine cooling, etc. are the best.

Keep in mind that the second number of an oil's viscosity grade (30 in this case) is the steady weight of the oil when at 100 degrees C (212 degrees F) and it compares with any other 30 weight grade oil, in thickness, regardless whether it's a 0W-30, 5W-30 or 10W-30. This is a A.S.E standard test which must be passed to be called a particular viscosity grade oil. (Don't let the "0W" verses the more common 5W or 10W confuse you.) This particular oil's ability to remain a 30 weight oil in very abusive engine temperatures at well over 150 degrees C (302 degrees F) allows it to be a strong and safe oil for street, strip and track.

He explained that using a heavier weight oil is not necessary or desired "unless" the engine is built losely (with wide bearing tolerances) which BMW's engine's are not. Also, he stated that car manufacturer's recommendations for using a heavier "petroleum" based oil such as 15W-40 or 15W-50 was only recommended because of the protection those petroleum weight oils could offer. Using lighter synthetic oils in lieu of hevier petroleum based oils offers "more" engine protection while also offering better wear protection too. It's a win-win situation.

Anyway, for those who have asked me about which oil I intend on using in my M3, I have made my choice!

Bob ///M3

**Gluall@aol.com** · 03-01-2001, 09:45 AM

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Wow! Great report as usual, im very impressed!

are you certain that you arent getting a commission for sales on Amsoil oil?..j/k

**Kevlar** · 03-01-2001, 09:50 AM

Part #1
http://self.phpwebhosting.com/~bimme...=&threadid=413

Part #2
http://self.phpwebhosting.com/~bimme...=&threadid=414

**M3D** · 03-01-2001, 10:04 AM

Bob I've been using Mobil 1 15W50, I wonder how bad this has been when temps go to 26 degrees?

**Bob ///M3** · 03-01-2001, 12:36 PM

A low ambient temperature causes any oil to be slower to reach all parts of the engine as most wear is caused at crank-up. I wouldn't be concerned about the wear but your owner's manual recommends a lower first number oil be used in colder climates.

Bob ///M3

**MMMike** · 03-01-2001, 12:36 PM

I hbought my 97 M3 with 48,000 miles. When I took it in for it's first oil change I talked to the mechanic about using synthetic vs petroleum oil. I was leaning towards synthetic based on what I'd read in several forums, but the mechanic said if the car has been running petroleum for this long it could cause problems since synthetic is thinner. Bob, you seem to be very well versed on this subject, do you have any input? Thanks!

**M3 Pete** · 03-01-2001, 01:10 PM

It is $8.10 per quart. That is over $56 per oil change, just for the oil!

Even in a four-gallon case, it still costs $7.50 per quart! A 55-gallon drum is still over $6 per quart. Are there discount sources?

**Kevlar** · 03-01-2001, 02:24 PM

Yes AMSOil is pricey... but look at it this way. You get what you pay for.

The 0W-30 blend requires alot more to produce (hence the higher price). I get the quarts for about $7.50 I believe... I'd have to check my pricing guide.

If you want to go with a cheaper blend, you can get the 5W-30 synthetic which I believe sells for $5.50 a quart.

I'm an AMSOIL dealer.

Persoanlly, I spend the extra cash and use the 0W-30.

It helps my car extremely during cold start up, I no longer hear valve ticking in the mornings or when I start the car up from sitting for a while.

**C.Yang** · 03-01-2001, 05:52 PM

Wheres that damn music coming from?!?

**Bob ///M3** · 03-01-2001, 05:55 PM

Comments like the one you were given are commonplace. The only justification "not" to change to synthetic engine oil would be in an engine with many, many miles (far more than you have) that has become gunked up and coated with varnishes, etc.

The thoughts are that an engine such as this would release the gunk and contaminates that have built up over the years and put them into the engine's oil. Synthetic oil has natural detergents that will break this stuff up and could cause clogged lifters, oiling holes and the oil filter. Of course the engine would have to be one that was extremely dirty and not well taken care of. Also, it must be said that valve cover gaskets, etc. that have had a thick coating of gunk over its recent life may produce a leak when the gunk is slowly removed by using a synthetic engine oil.

And before you ask if using a 0W-30 synthetic engine oil will cause any leaks due to its lightweight first number (0W), the answer is absolutely no! The reason is because when the engine reaches it normal operating temperature even a 50 weight (top number) oil is thinner than a 0W (bottom number) oil when cool. That's why when you see hot oil being drained it is always much thinner than the lightest weight oils when cool. If you don't have any leaks now and your engine has been taken care of with frequent oil and filter changes you shouldn't have any problem switching to synthetic.

Bob ///M3

Originally posted by MMMike
I hbought my 97 M3 with 48,000 miles. When I took it in for it's first oil change I talked to the mechanic about using synthetic vs petroleum oil. I was leaning towards synthetic based on what I'd read in several forums, but the mechanic said if the car has been running petroleum for this long it could cause problems since synthetic is thinner. Bob, you seem to be very well versed on this subject, do you have any input? Thanks!

**S--K** · 03-01-2001, 06:06 PM

Bob,

Any opinions on Mobil1 0W-30, if there is such a beast?

That stuff more readily available for me.

Thanks.

**jaramill** · 03-01-2001, 09:18 PM

I just purchased Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic 10W-30 oil but when I got it shipped they (Autobarn.com) screwed up my order and sent me regular oil. Now I'm having them take back the wrong product and ship me the right one. My question is: Being that I live in Southern California (where it rarely drops below 40 F), should I change it to 0W-30? Or is the 0W-30 only for climates with extreme colder temperatures?

Thanks,
Gio

P.S. - Does anyone know where on the web (or a real brick and mortar store) where I can purchase AMSOIL 0W-30?

**Bob ///M3** · 03-01-2001, 09:35 PM

Yes, Mobil makes a 0W-30. In fact I use it in my '97 Toyota Camry however I use Amsoil 0W-30 in my '99 M3 and '00 328i.

Bob ///M3

Originally posted by S--K
Bob,

Any opinions on Mobil1 0W-30, if there is such a beast?

That stuff more readily available for me.

Thanks.

**Bob ///M3** · 03-01-2001, 09:41 PM

Gio, 0W-30 synthetic engine oil can be used anywhere from the North Pole to the Equator. The "30" is the weight of the oil when at 100 degrees C (212 F), not the "0". A 0W-30 will be the same weight as a 10W-30 when hot!

I would check the phone book (yellow pages) under "Oil" to see if anyone local to you is an Amsoil dealer. Most large cities have a few listed. If not, Kevlar and a few others here are dealers.

Bob ///M3

Originally posted by jaramill
My question is: Being that I live in Southern California (where it rarely drops below 40 F), should I change it to 0W-30? Or is the 0W-30 only for climates with extreme colder temperatures?

Thanks,
Gio

P.S. - Does anyone know where on the web (or a real brick and mortar store) where I can purchase AMSOIL 0W-30?

**jaramill** · 03-01-2001, 09:51 PM

Thanks Bob. Here's a URL that I have about oils (pretty good - you may have seen it):

http://www.eskimo.com/~dalus/bmw/all...ll_oilfaq.html

As for the other member's question: Yes Mobil does make 0W-30. Here's where you can order it from:
(they are part of Autobarn.com)

http://store.yahoo.com/rodi/oil44877.html

Gio

P.S. - Well I'll try to find AMSOIL around my way (I already purchased my Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic for the upcoming oil change). I'll definitely talk to Kevlar about getting AMSOIL through him.

Thanks Bob.

**jaramill** · 03-01-2001, 10:03 PM

So then what is the difference between 0W-30, 10W-30, 15W-30, etc....?

Gio

**Bob ///M3** · 03-01-2001, 10:48 PM

Simply put, the first number (0W, 5W, 10W) is the oil's ability to flow when cool. Cool being defined as a temperature from -50 degrees F to over 100 degrees F.

The reason why a 0W or 5W oil is so important to use is because the oil will flow quicker when the engine is first cranked up, reducing wear. About 90% of all engine wear is caused at crank up due to lack of lubrication so getting oil quickly to the entire engine is obviously very important.

A 0W-30 oil is thicker at room temperature than a straight 50 weight oil is at normal engine temperatures (212 F). Therefore the lower the first number (ex. 0W) the quicker it will flow but it still won't flow as quickly as hot (212 F) oil (*W-30, *W-40, *W-50) will.

Bob ///M3

Originally posted by jaramill
So then what is the difference between 0W-30, 10W-30, 15W-30, etc....?

Gio

RS · 03-02-2001, 03:04 AM

thanks for the info Bob,

Is AMSOIL that much better than Mobil1? Mobil1 has a solid history in all sorts of motor racing including F1 and if those guys are happy revving their engines to 17,000 with it, then it sounds good to me...so what sells you on AMSOIL? I see from their web site (www.amsoil.com) that they had the first synthetics and that they've been around since '72 and that they too are racing but it seems more 2 stroke oriented with motocross and snowmobile stuff....just wondering

You logic will probably make me reduce my oil weight on the next change (from Mobil1 15W-50) for reducing start up wear. So your happy with 30W once the oil is warm and not something higher?

thanks.....

(what IS up with the music?? hitting the browser's stop button makes it quit though)

**jaramill** · 03-02-2001, 01:49 PM

What music are people referring to? Is it a plug-in that plays when you go to this thread? Or is it throughout the message board?

Gio

**jaramill** · 03-02-2001, 02:00 PM

Just got an e-mail back from Autobarn.com after I replied to them asking if they can change my order from Mobil One Tri-Synthetic oil 10W-30 to their 0W-30 and they did it! They caught my order at the shipping dock and so now I'll be getting 0W-30!! Woohoo! Only the best for my car.

Thanks for the oil report Bob! Next oil change I'll try AMSOIL but the only problem with AMSOIL..........is trying to find it!

Mobil One I can get anywhere (especially at Mobil gas stations).

Gio

**SlickM3** · 03-06-2001, 02:54 AM

I understand that there are some Amsoil dealers here. Please send a 0W-30 quote to me at: m3bim@home.com.

Also, what do you synth users advise for change interval? I've been doing 3 to 5 K with the dealer's 15W-40 gunk. Car has 60 K miles now.

Want to get synth, some Rhino ramps, and start doing it myself.

**AlphaKennyOne ///M3** · 03-06-2001, 03:21 AM

Hey yo bob!

I've been using Mobil Tri Synthetic 15-50 oil....now I was planning on switching 10w-30....but now since I know mobil makes a 0-30....I'll switch to that (Mobil 1 fan). My question is....will switching make me burn any oil?!?!?! I burn NO oil at all with 15-50....I put 7quarts in....7 quarts come right out!.....second question....do you burn any oil?!?!!

Thanks in advance bob,
Alan Nguyen

**ChewToy** · 03-19-2003, 10:05 PM

Are you guy's dumping in 8 quarts?

**Kevlar** · 03-19-2003, 10:09 PM

i used to use 7 1/2 quarts, maybe 7 3/4 quarts...

**M3325** · 03-20-2003, 01:36 AM

Kevlar, so you don't use the recommended 10W60 in your M3?

Thread: Synthetic Engine Oil - I've made my choice!

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