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Thread: The definitive subframe strategy thread

  1. #76
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    The all new and improved "Z3 MZ3 Differential Mount Trunkfloor Support Failure" website (same great link).

    Please send me any new links to threads, or new pictures.

    I can add database driven pages to the website pretty easily, so suggest an app if you think it would be helpful.

    Send pics to mcoupe33 att gmail com

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_schemula
    The all new and improved "Z3 MZ3 Differential Mount Trunkfloor Support Failure" website (same great link).

    Please send me any new links to threads, or new pictures.

    I can add database driven pages to the website pretty easily, so suggest an app if you think it would be helpful.

    Send pics to mcoupe33 att gmail com
    Looks good!

    If you want to link to the pictures from cars I've worked on, you can pick out those albums from this gallery (generally speaking, albums with three_3_ initials are the differential mount work) www.rfdm.com/gallery

    I doubt some of the albums are of interest to those researching their car's structural failure.

  3. #78
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    I went by the BMW recommended & certified body shop on Monday and according to their shop manager, they have done many cars with the same issue.

    He couldnt give me a price unless I left the car for a day and I couldnt do that this week. He is however, going to go through their records and see how many he can find that had the same repair done & what the average cost was. I may even be able to get VINs from him so I can show them to BMW. We will see.....

    I showed him the photos of my damage and my trunk. He said to me that it looks like "thousands & thousands of dollars" cost to repair my car, though he couldnt be sure "without seeing it up on the rack."

    I should have the results of his search & data by early next week. I will pass on any data I get that may be useful to others or the class actions....

    Meanwhile my temp fix seems to be holding up.....No additional cracks in the trunk and it still feels tight. I'll get it up in the air over the weekend to re-torque eveything and to do a through inspection.....

    Chris

  4. #79
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    So you are going to pay out of pocket?

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_schemula
    So you are going to pay out of pocket?
    Not until I get a definitive answer from BMW. The are rep will see the car on the 27th of OCt.....I figure my temp patch will hold until then....

    If they say no, then I will have to re-group, yell louder. If after all the dust settles, they still say no, I will buy randy's kit & breakout my welder.....I am just not very good at welding upside down...

    Chris

  6. #81
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    They fixed mine for free, at least back to the original inadequate state. But mine is in showroom condition with only 30K Miles (out of warranty).

  7. #82
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    Note: accident attributed to diff mount failure

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...93#post5131093
    phrider
    2001 Titanium Silver M Roadster with hardtop
    1998 Titanium Silver E36 M3 Coupe
    Former cars: Saab 900 Turbo, Rabbit, 1967 Chevy II, 1951 Packard Ultramatic Coupe (0-60 in under 0.3 minutes)

  8. #83
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    I GOT A TEAR!!! noticed it today... pics to come damn it..

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by RkitOut
    I GOT A TEAR!!! noticed it today... pics to come damn it..

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by RkitOut
    I GOT A TEAR!!! noticed it today... pics to come damn it..
    Umm, aren't you like... already prepared for this?

  11. #86
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    touche' yes and no...

    have the kit havent had time to install.... granted i didnt drive the car all summer..

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by RkitOut
    touche' yes and no...

    have the kit havent had time to install.... granted i didnt drive the car all summer..
    I hear ya, that was me and my car(s) last summer (because they were cracked).

  13. #88
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    More and more complaints!

    Someone made the remark in an early post that the problem with floor support and differential mounts only seem to affect the 99's and 2000 models. On revisiting the nhtsa site, I found 25 complaints as opposed to 17 only a couple of weeks ago, 1 complaint on a 97, 8 complaints on 98's, 9 complaints on 99's, and 7 on 2000 models. These are for Z3 and M3 roadsters and are listed some as Power Trainrivelineifferential unit....and others as Structure:Frame and Members. My problem is still unresolved on my 2000 M3 Roadster with 34,000 miles and it looks like I'll be fixing it my self. BMW has turned me down flat twice and used the "A" word...."agressive" driving as the reason for the floor support damage. Which is ludicrous!!!!!! The service manager at Rick Hill Imports of Kingsport TN sucks! Of course he's putting out exactly the information BMW tells him to on this issue including lying about any knowledge of it ever happening before. They have constant memo's and bulletins on exactly how to handle it when it comes up.....right down to the language to use.

  14. #89
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    Went to the dealer today to meet with the BMW area rep. The dealer service manager also had the owner/manager of the local BMW certified body shop there as well. Long story short; it was decided and stated that the only way this type of damage occurs is from an accident. Said it was part of the crumple zone design. Unfortunatly my car had some apparent accident damage (rear bumper replaced/repainted, NO other damage to substructure other than the popped welds). Since I am the 4th owner and the car has 132000 miles, there was no way they were going to give in. I would not be covered or assisted in any way. They would however, fix it for me for "about" $1000.

    What I found that the most disappointing, BMWs failure to admit or even acknowledge that this could be caused by something other than an accident. I even asked directly: "So you are saying the ONLY way this weld and frame failure could happen is from an car accident." Their reply was "Yes"

    I do understand their perspective. A car with high miles and evidence of an accident that "could" have contributed to the weld pops. I understand about used cars and cavet emptor. If I was the only that had this issue, I wouldnt have even brought it up. But this problem is not isolated and should be addressed.....

    No matter how much I discussed it with them, they would not budge on the reason for these seperations...Rear end collisions or driving that causes the car to slam sidways hard. I had sent a VERY lenghty email to the svc mgr with all of the sites I could find and was told by the area rep that you really cant believe anyone on the internet who says their car's welds failed at 20000 miles without an accident. The BMW rep's quote was "Someone said their welds failed and they hadnt had an accident? And you believe that?"

    So, I will order Randy's kit (after the first of the year when we finish moving), fix the car myself, join teh class action (if it exists) and NEVER purchase another BMW.....

    My wife's next car (Apr 2006) will be a Mercedes or Volvo cab & I will be going back to Porsche.....

    A damn shame
    Chris

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by wnmakr
    ....Of course he's putting out exactly the information BMW tells him to on this issue including lying about any knowledge of it ever happening before. They have constant memo's and bulletins on exactly how to handle it when it comes up.....right down to the language to use.
    Do you have any proof of this or copies of these "memo's and bulletins"?

    Thanks
    Chris

  16. #91
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    I have been told there are bulitens on the known problem and documentation on exaclty howto fix it.

    They give you a party line lie up front, but with pressure and proof, you can probably succeed. Supply VIN numbers, and the documentation.
    -Jason

    Weekend Car

    '99 Boston Green M Roadster - intake, M50 manifold, schrick cams, magnaflow exhaust, TCK D/A Coilovers 500/600, RD front bar, ltw flywheel & clutch, harddog rollbar, schroth harnesses, zionsville radiator, S54 oil cooler, stewart pump, etc ..... ~245rwhp

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBgotM
    I have been told there are bulitens on the known problem and documentation on exaclty howto fix it.
    They give you a party line lie up front, but with pressure and proof, you can probably succeed. Supply VIN numbers, and the documentation.
    I have and they still said no...(see the huge crack thread)...

    Unless I can hand them the bullentins or proof of memos, I (and others) are out of luck. I have not been able to locate ANY BMW bulletins, memos or emails that admit or show this issue.....

    Until then, getting very far with BMW for a car out of warranty is unlikely.....


    Chris

  18. #93
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    Chris,
    You're really in a bind. Its hard not to see the point of the dealer... you have a car that's 7 or 8 years old, has well over 100k miles, multiple owners, wreck damage, has been out of warranty for at least 3 or 4 years and isn't worth more than about 12k in perfect condition.

    I honestly think that BMW should fix ALL the cars affected with this problem, but I can't imagine any business in any situation backing a product in the condition of yours (at a certain point, the statute of limitations HAS to be respected). If you can convince them to do so, you're a fantastic salesman and should come to work for me.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by chgrec
    I have and they still said no...(see the huge crack thread)...
    Unless I can hand them the bullentins or proof of memos, I (and others) are out of luck. I have not been able to locate ANY BMW bulletins, memos or emails that admit or show this issue.....
    Until then, getting very far with BMW for a car out of warranty is unlikely.....
    Chris
    I almost got my hands on the documentation, but then the person wanted to call and confirm they could give it to me. When they called back,they said they couldn't give it to me. I will try again in about a week or so when I take my car in to drop it off for the fix.
    Last edited by JBgotM; 02-05-2008 at 07:36 AM.
    -Jason

    Weekend Car

    '99 Boston Green M Roadster - intake, M50 manifold, schrick cams, magnaflow exhaust, TCK D/A Coilovers 500/600, RD front bar, ltw flywheel & clutch, harddog rollbar, schroth harnesses, zionsville radiator, S54 oil cooler, stewart pump, etc ..... ~245rwhp

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBgotM
    I almost got my hands on the documentation, but then the person wanted to call and confirm they could give it to me. When they called back,theysaid they culdn'tgve it to me. I will try again in about a wek orso whenItake my car in to drop it off for the fix.

    Thanks, every bit may help....if not me, then others.....

    Chris

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethmark
    Chris,
    .....(at a certain point, the statute of limitations HAS to be respected). If you can convince them to do so, you're a fantastic salesman and should come to work for me.
    I agree that at some point a time limit has to kick in, these aren't airplanes after all...but this is a issue that shows up in low mileage cars with NO accident history....

    My disappointment is NOT in the fact they didnt cover it, I would have been VERY surprised if they did....(I only paid $10600 for the car so I figure I am ahead of the game even with the issue)

    My disappointment is in how they are handling it. They continue to make the owner feel like their car has been abused or that they are doing you a favor when they fix one. VERY poor customer support.

    I would have been satisfied completly if they had said, "Yes, this is a problem with these cars. We are sorry though since your car has so many miles and had a accident, yours doesn't qualify for a free fix"

    Had they done that, I would have gladly respected them, shaken their hands, gotten up and been satisfied with BMW completely....

    They choose another route and lost a customer.....

    Chris

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBgotM
    I almost got my hands on the documentation, but then the person wanted to call and confirm they could give it to me. When they called back,theysaid they culdn'tgve it to me. I will try again in about a wek orso whenItake my car in to drop it off for the fix.
    I'm still on the edge of my seat waiting on that info too

    So, how's things in Florida? My folks called me from there tonight...

  23. #98
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    Has anybody gone through the better business bureau. They will mediate a complaint to ensure that you are being treated fairly. Here is a link to their website.

  24. #99
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    Z3speed4me is offline Coupe Cartel Forever! BMW CCA Member
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    anybody want my VIN, since my car is a 1.9 and was 100% covered???

    im sure my case is documented, i have all the paperwork in my house

    too bad all it says is the parts replaced and that i owe 0.00 balance

    really wish it said like WHY they had to do this, and the hours involved

    ~Ken~ {'99 M coupe : 1 of 35} - 1 of 1 Custom Build by Maximum PSI 623 whp 516 wtq @ 21psi 93pump;RIP 3.24.13 (<OO\ (II] [II) /OO>)
    {'01 M coupe : 1 of 16} - Nick G Tune, CPI Headers, MaximumPSI sec1, Supersprint X-Pipe, Vibrant Resonators and Vibrant Black Mufflers, TCK S/A 450/500, RF dual ear, 3.64, 8200RPM ~294 whp 237 wtq

  25. #100
    Z3speed4me's Avatar
    Z3speed4me is offline Coupe Cartel Forever! BMW CCA Member
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    as a token of thanks...bringin tom, the body shop manager at my dealer a big 1.5 bottle of grey goose right now...

    ~Ken~ {'99 M coupe : 1 of 35} - 1 of 1 Custom Build by Maximum PSI 623 whp 516 wtq @ 21psi 93pump;RIP 3.24.13 (<OO\ (II] [II) /OO>)
    {'01 M coupe : 1 of 16} - Nick G Tune, CPI Headers, MaximumPSI sec1, Supersprint X-Pipe, Vibrant Resonators and Vibrant Black Mufflers, TCK S/A 450/500, RF dual ear, 3.64, 8200RPM ~294 whp 237 wtq

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