The definitive subframe strategy thread

[Apelfrey]

Also, how hard is it taking the rear end out?(do I have to?) etc. I really need to fix this, my wife has been crying all afternoon.

[Randy Forbes]

erandyforbes@aol.com or 419 350 1098

Just don't call tonight between 10:00PM / 11:00PM EST (Castle is on...).

[GBPaterson]

I was wondering if one of you guys (perhaps Randy? ) with more expertise could point me in the right direction here. I too started getting a rather unhealthy creaking from the back whenever I accelerate. After some pointers on another thread I pulled the lining out from the trunk and had a look at the spot welds.

I've uploaded the album here with the photos from my phone, pictures 3 & 4 seem to show the worrying signs...

http://cid-7ab188b059908d57.skydrive...B059908D57!153

I find it hard to believe however that this one little failure could be causing so much creaking, is there somewhere else I should be checking? I find it tricky sometimes trying to translate the close up shots others have taken to the corresponding section of car / trunk they came from. In some it even looks like a piece of the trunk floor has be cut out?

I haven't looked under the car specifically for this yet either but should hopefully get a chance by this weekend. Any tips appreciated!

(Oh and I realise my trunk is a bit mucky, a bottle broke in there last week and I didnt realise how far it had got)

Gareth

[SunzOut]

You have at least one spot weld gone (pic 4). Best get it checked out from under side as well.

[GBPaterson]

How much do I need to remove to give the underside a proper inspection. Is it possible just by lifting or do I need to remove bits (exhaust e.t.c)?

[Randy Forbes]

How much do I need to remove to give the underside a proper inspection. Is it possible just by lifting or do I need to remove bits (exhaust e.t.c)?

Most important, is to be able to safely get your head under there, (and if you're older, at a distance to which you can focus...) and a good, bright light source.

You'll want to study the area of the actual differential bracket carefully, and look ALL AROUND were the crossmember is spotwelded to the trunkfloor.

[Kurtster]

Is it a given that over time all Z3's will develop this problem? I have seen conflicting information where one person says it isn't all that common, then another says there's ample evidence that it's a known defect and they will never buy another BMW (whatever), another person says it only happens when one of these cars gets rear ended and there a whole confusing thread about some class action suit but I don't see any conclusion to that nor do I see any recalls issued from BMW on this.

Why do I ask? In short, I'm curious.
I am not worried, I love the car and intend to just drive it and hope never to see any signs of a problem. However it would give me some small peace of mind to know conclusively that not all Z3s develop tuis problem given enough time and without being rear ended. I realize that there may also not be anything conclusive if there has never been anything legal or scientific enough to determine the cause to be just expected metal fatigue in a vulnerable area, an engineering defect, the side-effect of even small rear impacts, or just a small percentage of people who had the same problem because of a combination of these factors.

[ClubSport332ti]

Hi Coupe Dejour. I live in WA and am having a problem finding a welder in WA to perfrom work on my 2000 BMW M Roadster subframe issue. How well did Jeff @ Haury's in Seattle perform the job? Also, how much did you pay if you don't mind. Thanks

Kito autosports. The guy worked for Osh at RMS

[MRoadstar]

After a long 9 months of saving, and countless e-mails to Randy Forbes, my Zed will finally go out for repairs today! Thanks to Randy Forbes for his great customer service and willingness to provide expert advice in a timely fashion.

I live all the way out here in the pac northwest, Washington State. The most difficult part for me (besides saving $) was finding a shop that was willing to do the repairs. Many of the shops cited liability issues, and did not want to take up the task of repairing my subframe

Luckily, I found a team that was very confident in their work and who ultimately prides themselves on their professionalism & customer service. I will update you guys on the process. Pics to come soon.

[billyr3d]

Hmm, I wouldn't mind becoming a Randy Forbes authorized installer for the north east...

[Randy Forbes]

Hmm, I wouldn't mind becoming a Randy Forbes authorized installer for the north east...

There've been a couple done up your way, but nobody that wanted to keep doing them.

Show me some pictures, and I might recommend you

[Randy Forbes]

After a long 9 months of saving, and countless e-mails to Randy Forbes, my Zed will finally go out for repairs today! Thanks to Randy Forbes for his great customer service and willingness to provide expert advice in a timely fashion.

I live all the way out here in the pac northwest, Washington State. The most difficult part for me (besides saving $) was finding a shop that was willing to do the repairs. Many of the shops cited liability issues, and did not want to take up the task of repairing my subframe

Luckily, I found a team that was very confident in their work and who ultimately prides themselves on their professionalism & customer service. I will update you guys on the process. Pics to come soon.

Your profile is set not to accept PMs from members, or I'd be contacting you offline...

I was just asked this morning about a shop in the PNW who could install the reinforcement package. Can you either post it here, or send me an E-mail?

erandyforbes@aol.com

Thanks!

[BimmerBreaker]

Im about to buy this kit and was just wondering how difficult the DIY was? I am fairly proficient with a welder, and have enough common sense - is it just a matter of lining it up and welding it in or is there more to it than that?

[Randy Forbes]

Im about to buy this kit and was just wondering how difficult the DIY was? I am fairly proficient with a welder, and have enough common sense - is it just a matter of lining it up and welding it in or is there more to it than that?

Not much more, there's only one mildly critical measurement, the rest is common sense and above average work standards

See: http://www.spcarsplus.com/gallery3/index.php/dbr

[chgrec]

Im about to buy this kit and was just wondering how difficult the DIY was? I am fairly proficient with a welder, and have enough common sense - is it just a matter of lining it up and welding it in or is there more to it than that?

I'm a mediocre welder and my wife says I have no common sense. I installed Randy's kit over a weekend and it is still holding strong...Attention to detail is about all it takes

Chris

[BimmerBreaker]

I'm a mediocre welder and my wife says I have no common sense. I installed Randy's kit over a weekend and it is still holding strong...Attention to detail is about all it takes

Chris

Good to hear
Just bought it, cant wait to get it in. The rear subframe is the only major weakpoints on these cars imo, now I can finally have some peace of mind

[Arno 23]

Do you knomw some place around Montreal where i can repair the subframe of my Z3 2000 ? Thank you everybody.

[Mr Bingley]

Mr. Forbes, I sent you a pm yesterday, but I am not at all confident it actually sent--the pm system here leaves a little to be desired. If you did not receive it, please let me know and I will try again.

[SunzOut]

Mr. Forbes, I sent you a pm yesterday, but I am not at all confident it actually sent--the pm system here leaves a little to be desired. If you did not receive it, please let me know and I will try again.

See post # 727 in this thread for contact details

[Randy Forbes]

Mr. Forbes, I sent you a pm yesterday, but I am not at all confident it actually sent--the pm system here leaves a little to be desired. If you did not receive it, please let me know and I will try again.

I got to it late last, and had a call to jury duty today, so I'm running a little behind. You posed a lot of questions, and I like to be thorough when answering them, so I wanted to wait until I had the time to devote to your answer.

Now, if you don't hear from me within a week, you'd better give me a call

[Mr Bingley]

I got to it late last, and had a call to jury duty today, so I'm running a little behind. You posed a lot of questions, and I like to be thorough when answering them, so I wanted to wait until I had the time to devote to your answer.

Now, if you don't hear from me within a week, you'd better give me a call

Thanks, will do.

[northwest]

I just emailed randy about checking to make sure I dont have any problems developing. In the email I mentioned that my car was an automatic. He said "I haven't yet heard of any automatic transmission equipped cars failing in that area."

Is it true that automatic Z's dont develop this problem? I would rather be safe than sorry.

[dougmcintyre]

I just emailed randy about checking to make sure I dont have any problems developing. In the email I mentioned that my car was an automatic. He said "I haven't yet heard of any automatic transmission equipped cars failing in that area."

Is it true that automatic Z's dont develop this problem? I would rather be safe than sorry.

How much of this thread have you read?

On subframe issues, Randy is The Man. If Randy has not heard of any auto cars having subframe problems, the failure rate must be either very low or zero.

Of course, you could always be the first.

[MN Z3 30i]

I hadn't heard about this issue before buying my first Z. I don't have any weird noises yet (my car only has 40K miles on it).

My car is one of the later Z3s (2001), but it doesn't sound like BMW fixed it by then.

Does anyone know what it costs to have the reinforcing kit installed?

[BraveUlysses]

Read the thread.