The definitive subframe strategy thread

[6i9]

as a token of thanks...bringin tom, the body shop manager at my dealer a big 1.5 bottle of grey goose right now...

Nice

[Dumbscout]

Any updates on this? The posts just stopped all of a sudden. Anyone have any new news?

[Dumbscout]

sorry, i was looking at the dates all wrong. lol.

[dave is cool]

How much does this problem usually cost to fix from a BMW dealer or a similar shop?

[chgrec]

How much does this problem usually cost to fix from a BMW dealer or a similar shop?

I was quoted by the manager of the body shop (BMW certified & used by the local dealer) that it would be $1000 to fix it back to factory. Randy Forbes has a real fix for $500 (parts only) and either a trip to his place or using a local welder.......

Chris

[Imperialduckm3]

Right now, its going to cost me aroun $2600 to repair and reinforce with Turner kit. I filed my complain with NTSA and I hope they can do something about this (which I know, probably wouldn't add up to much).

[2000Z3M]

I'm in see: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=464438
A letter is also going to be sent to BMWNA from my mom, a lawyer in CT and FL.
Chris

[TurnerMS]

Photos of a 2000 328 we have in the shop today for repair...
81,000 miles, stock suspension.

Left rear mount:


Right front mount (Diagonally across.):

[chgrec]

Seems the BMW engineers must have skipped the classes on "statics & strengths of materials" in school....

Of course, its not their fault, all of these types of failures are obviously cased by car accidents......

BMW = Bare Minimum Welds

Chris

[Randy Forbes]

Photos of a 2000 328 we have in the shop today for repair...
81,000 miles, stock suspension.

Left rear mount:

Rust around the edges indicates how long it has been in the act of failing.

I recommended your kit to the owner of a 97 M3 a couple days ago; hope you can do the same for me when it comes to the Z3/M platform.

[TurnerMS]

Rust around the edges indicates how long it has been in the act of failing.

For sure, it has been this way for a while. Scary, since the car only has 81K on it.

[Esteves]

Z8 now exhibiting frame damage issues. I guess the "ultimate driving machine" is for a limited time only (before it starts falling apart).

Here is the link to Bimmerfest that has the information about the Z8 with structural design flaw.

<a href="http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127865">Flagship Z8 with structural design flaw</a>

Too bad the Z8 guys didn't read the Z3 threads

[LilBad//M]

We have two Coupe's now, 1 is on the way hopefully no-issues!

[LilBad//M]

Randy Forbes, where are you located?! We are picking a PY Coupe in MN this weekend! Going to Hamilton, Ohio to 1gracing where we will get a chance to test the Noble M12 & M400! WHoo hoo, can't wait!

[Randy Forbes]

Randy Forbes, where are you located?! We are picking a PY Coupe in MN this weekend! Going to Hamilton, Ohio to 1gracing where we will get a chance to test the Noble M12 & M400! WHoo hoo, can't wait!

Toledo (practially a suburb of Detroit). Might be an interesting weekend to stop by...

Trying to get Daniel to come down and see the new place, and I'll have a new two (2) post lift in the garage, if not yet installed (was supposed to happen tomorrow, but the installer hurt himself on another job today and can't make it).

But by all means, if you're passing through this way, do stop in (PM me for phone # & directions).

[JBgotM]

Randy Forbes, where are you located?! We are picking a PY Coupe in MN this weekend! Going to Hamilton, Ohio to 1gracing where we will get a chance to test the Noble M12 & M400! WHoo hoo, can't wait!

nice, when I lived in Cincy, I often saw thoe guys running around in ther Nobles, Daytona coupes, and cobras. I even held my own auto-xing with them.

[BillF]

Does this problem extend to 01-02 model years (mine is 01)? As I scan the many posts, I have not seen anything later than model year 2000.

One day I noticed a 1/4 inch gap between trunk lid and body on the right side. I had thought it was valet parking, but now I have concerns that possibly this is a symptom, too.

[Randy Forbes]

Does this problem extend to 01-02 model years (mine is 01)? As I scan the many posts, I have not seen anything later than model year 2000.

One day I noticed a 1/4 inch gap between trunk lid and body on the right side. I had thought it was valet parking, but now I have concerns that possibly this is a symptom, too.

That's Daniel's 02 in my signature pic. His was a pre-emptive repair (and I made him a sweet deal for being a Guinea-Pig).

My 01 was the motivation for developing something stronger than what the cars came with; it was just starting to pull spotwelds when I discovered it.

I've done several more S-54 models.

[CorgiCoupe]

Randy, Have you ever made an observation about failures in cars with the Strong Strut butt strut installed?

[1LuvMCoupe]

Randy -

I just purchased a S52 coupe Can you email me details on the cost of your kit and the installation instructions as well as what you normally charge for the job ?

-Wes
wesbourne@gmail.com

[taiheung]

Guys, sorry I'm a bit confused. What brings on the subframe failure? My mechanic says we're not in any danger due to the fact we don't push the M too hard. Is this true? Under what conditions to the cars begin to suffer from subframe failure??

[JBgotM]

Guys, sorry I'm a bit confused. What brings on the subframe failure? My mechanic says we're not in any danger due to the fact we don't push the M too hard. Is this true? Under what conditions to the cars begin to suffer from subframe failure??

cyclic fatigue. The harder you drive it, the faster it fails, but even potholes and such can bring this failure over time.

[count_schemula]

Reading the case studies, seems like more are related to harder driving, but there were several whose owners claimed they did not drive very hard.

Basically, the body should not come apart like this. The cars are not even that old.

[optic]

Well, I finally had a chance to look back there to see if I could find anything. I hear creaking and stuff from the back when driving, but I don't know if it's just plastic and crap rattling around or serious. I managed to get some of the carpet and plastic pieces up and didn't see any splits or cracks or anything. Underneath, no obvious failures.

Unfortunately, I wasn't sure how to get all the lining pieces up, since there are no obvious connectors on some of the pieces, and I didn't want to just start pulling everything apart. Similarly, underneath, I wasn't sure what to look at, though I looked around the diff as well as I could. Is there a how-to (pictures?) on how to pull apart the back and on where to look underneath? The page on largeglass.com with all the pictures is somewhat helpful, but the pictures tend to be closeups and I'm not sure where on the car I'm actually looking. I barely know what I'm doing and help is greatly appreciated! thanks

[JBgotM]

Well, I finally had a chance to look back there to see if I could find anything. I hear creaking and stuff from the back when driving, but I don't know if it's just plastic and crap rattling around or serious. I managed to get some of the carpet and plastic pieces up and didn't see any splits or cracks or anything. Underneath, no obvious failures.

Unfortunately, I wasn't sure how to get all the lining pieces up, since there are no obvious connectors on some of the pieces, and I didn't want to just start pulling everything apart. Similarly, underneath, I wasn't sure what to look at, though I looked around the diff as well as I could. Is there a how-to (pictures?) on how to pull apart the back and on where to look underneath? The page on largeglass.com with all the pictures is somewhat helpful, but the pictures tend to be closeups and I'm not sure where on the car I'm actually looking. I barely know what I'm doing and help is greatly appreciated! thanks

Here is the spot where most people see damage......

from in the trunk, looking toward the drivers side:


from under the car, taken from the driver'sside rear wheel well looking back toward (but above) the diff: