How-To: Install a LifeHammer in Your E36

[G. P. Burdell]

Deleted. See posts 39 and 41.

[beatniks325]

looks like you could mount a gun there too and just shoot out the windows!!

do they advertise this hammer as being able to break glass underwater? just an honest question, not trying to put the product down....

[flask28]

There was an article last year in Car and Driver about these tools - I guess they tried a bunch on a junker windows and couldn't get any of them to break. From the outside, with running starts, they could barely get a crack with these tools. And from the inside, with the limited angle, they barely scratched the glass.

They concluded that the vendors of these things figure the customer will never really test them.

Their suggestion was to keep a $5 ice pick or something like that, that something like that would be more effective. An ice pick in the car sounds a little dangerous to me, but I thought that the summary that these "lifesaver" tools were gimicks was very interesting.

Have you tried to actually break anything with yours?

AK

[G. P. Burdell]

looks like you could mount a gun there too and just shoot out the windows!!

do they advertise this hammer as being able to break glass underwater? just an honest question, not trying to put the product down....

Ah, but if you use the LifeHammer to break the window, you won't (1) hit any innocent bystanders with bullets or (2) deafen yourself in the process.

As for breaking glass underwater, there's no mention of it in the product literature. Remember that it's going to be much more difficult to swing a hammer through water than through air.

[banndit]

a spring loaded center punch is a lot cheaper and would work under water

[G. P. Burdell]

flask28,

Thanks for mentioning the C&D test - I hadn't read that. Here's the link for anyone wanting to read it:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=7088

It seems as if the C&D writer tried to break the window from the outside rather than from the inside. The LifeHammer is intended to be used by someone inside the car. A convex glass surface is going to be more difficult to break than a concave surface.

Furthermore, we don't know where the writer tried to break the glass. It is easier to break a window or kick a windshield out at an edge or a corner, and the LifeHammer instructions say to aim for a bottom corner of the window.

In my Google search, I also came across a streaming video report by a local ABC affiliate in Fort Myers, Florida, that said the LifeHammer worked - mostly. The hammer broke car windows without much difficulty, but a dull blade prevented the reporter from cutting through the seat belt.

http://www.abc-7.com/News/diw/lifehammer.shtml

I posted this how-to for those who have been wondering where to mount a LifeHammer in their car. Regardless of what safety devices you choose to put in your car, it is always the best policy to drive defensively and in a manner that prevents you from getting into a crash in the first place.

[beatniks325]

As for breaking glass underwater, there's no mention of it in the product literature. Remember that it's going to be much more difficult to swing a hammer through water than through air.

yeah, that's kinda why i asked, i don't think a person could do it underwater.

too bad a harpon gun wouldn't fit under there.

[BMWaznt]

Hey I just thought about somthing. Yes I know this is only one situation where this would somewhat defeat the purpose but don't our cars upon detection of excess force (such as crash or me locking keys in car and getting mad) unlock our doors (and flash or hazards) anyway?

[Spennie]

The frame is not indestructible.... Our cars are unibody frames, which means that they are specially susceptable to bending during serious collisions. Bending in such a way that the doors won't open, that is. So, even if the doors are unlocked, you won't be able to get them open!!!

[surfacewound]

Their suggestion was to keep a $5 ice pick or something like that, that something like that would be more effective. An ice pick in the car sounds a little dangerous to me, but I thought that the summary that these "lifesaver" tools were gimicks was very interesting.

Have you tried to actually break anything with yours?

AK

Jesus, what kind of retarded suggestion is that? As bandit said, just get a centre punch. It doesn't even need to be spring-loaded.

[banndit]

the spring loaded one would solve the underwater issue.

B

[BMLRacer]

Well, I think I've seen it all. A full how-to for the Life Taker. Awesome! I feel dumber for having read this thread.

There's nothing like having a solid, sharp metal projectile in the car in the event of a big hit.

[banndit]

Well, I think I've seen it all. A full how-to for the Life Taker. Awesome! I feel dumber for having read this thread.

There's nothing like having a solid, sharp metal projectile in the car in the event of a big hit.

ejection seats would be better.

[Wayne@PelicanParts]

I can't for the life of me really figure out a situation when I would need to use one of these. Does anyone have any statistical data on how many people die because their car falls into water. I know that we see it all the time on TV (ER, CSI, etc.), but in real life, does it really happen?

Windshields are meant to be very easy to kick out. In fact, in most accidents I've seen (videos of track events, etc), the windscreen goes flying out of the car the minute the accident happens.

We sell this product at www.pelicanparts.com too, but I've never been a firm believer in the "technology".

More appropriate for a car would be a small tool kit, and/or some automotive-specific safety kits like the ones on this page:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...et1-detail.htm

-Wayne

[surfacewound]

Windshields are meant to be very easy to kick out.

Uhm, no. Windshields play a very important roll for crush protection in the event of a roll. They are more certainly NOT meant to be easily knocked out.

[BMLRacer]

Uhm, no. Windshields play a very important roll for crush protection in the event of a roll. They are more certainly NOT meant to be easily kicked out.

Your information comes from where? I'll take Wayne over you. Ever watched an EMT with the jaws of life? The first thing they do is remove the windshield. Next time you're in a junk yard, get in a car and put both feet on the windshield. Now push. Out it goes, monkey boy

[e-famous]

Uhm, no. Windshields play a very important roll for crush protection in the event of a roll. They are more certainly NOT meant to be easily knocked out.

The windshield in my integra must have been grabage, because I pulled it off tha car with one hand after I hit a pole...

[e-famous]

Your information comes from where? I'll take Wayne over you. Ever watched an EMT with the jaws of life? The first thing they do is remove the windshield. Next time you're in a junk yard, get in a car and put both feet on the windshield. Now push. Out it goes, monkey boy

I dunno where he gets his info either... though surfacewound has nearly 3000 posts to Wayne's 719... which generally indicates that he is probably a reputable source.

[bellavus]

i have one of these lifehammer thingies; my dad got it for me after my accident. I could have potentially used one of these when I crashed, but the passenger windows shattered outward, and the winshield was pushed inwards. The only thing that I might have been able to use was the seatbelt cutter.

[Wayne@PelicanParts]

Uhm, no. Windshields play a very important roll for crush protection in the event of a roll. They are more certainly NOT meant to be easily knocked out.

Not really intending to start a knowledge war. Surfacewound is correct, in one context. The auto manufacturers use the windshields as structural elements when they conduct their roof strength testing. In reality, the windscreen does nothing because it's typically broken when the vehicle rolls over (It may have happened one time, but I challenge to see a photo of a rollover where the windscreen wasn't broken).

Lambert vs. GM - final ruling:

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=746&scid=177

Here's another interesting read:

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=175&did=894

"Safety advocates contend that testing one side, particularly with the windshield intact, fails to show how the second side will perform in a rollover."

Here's another interesting link:

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=1120&scid=174

"Mr. Parr argued that much of the crushing occurs on the second and third points of impact, because the roof of a rolling vehicle is substantially weakened after the first impact, in part because the windshield breaks. This can make rollovers deadly even for people wearing seat belts. "You don't want to wear that roof down around your ears," he said. "That's all there is to it.""

It's tough to see how a broken glass windscreen can do much to assist in the structural integrity of the roof. I offer this picture to make a somber point (person was paralyzed but not killed):



-Wayne

[bellavus]

wayne, I don't have pics of my rollover, but the winshield was mostly intact from what I remember. I think that it was concave inward, but still attached at the edges. The roof was not crushed completely flat at all.

[BMLRacer]

I dunno where he gets his info either... though surfacewound has nearly 3000 posts to Wayne's 719... which generally indicates that he is probably a reputable source.

I'll take quality over quantity anyday......

[Wayne@PelicanParts]

wayne, I don't have pics of my rollover, but the winshield was mostly intact from what I remember. I think that it was concave inward, but still attached at the edges. The roof was not crushed completely flat at all.

I'm not an expert on structural dynamics of automotive accidents (although I do have a pair of engineering degrees and have done Nastran analysis of structural components on satellites in the past), but I would guess that the windscreen's ability to support the roof loading deteriorates significantly once there is a crack or break in it. An easy way to put this into real-life terms is to take a look at a foil bag of potatoe chips. The bag, when undamaged is pretty strong. However, when you rip into it at a crease, then you create a stress concentration in the foil that allows you to just tear through it with minimal force. Glass is very much the same way - that is one of the reasons why a small crack in the corner of your windshield will propagate all the way across in a matter of hours. Once the original integrity of the glass is breached, it's pretty much game over.

My wording in previous posts was misleading. What I meant to say is that "Windshields often are very easy to kick out." As someone mentioned previously, if you head to a junk yard, you can pretty much kick out windshields with not very much effort. I've done this in the past, and I can tell you, my legs really aren't that huge.

Here's another interesting link to the test that is in question here. The debate is whether the FMCSA test is actually a simulation of real-world events in rollover collisions. There are many people who argue that it's not...

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...sr/571.216.htm

-Wayne

[FredK]

Ah, but if you use the LifeHammer to break the window, you won't (1) hit any innocent bystanders with bullets or (2) deafen yourself in the process.

As for breaking glass underwater, there's no mention of it in the product literature. Remember that it's going to be much more difficult to swing a hammer through water than through air.

Well, I bet that during an accident if the airbags deploy you're probably going to be temporarily deafened anyway, so I guess the only reason not to mount a gun there is to avoid (1) hit[ting] any innocent bystanders with bullets.

HAHAHAHAHA.

So if you got a 7 Series with Protection, what would you do? I guess you'd have to carry an acetylene torch just in case. Maybe one of those Dremel Li-Ion Moto Tools can cut through the door in around... 2 hours, after breaking 40 cut off wheels...

[G. P. Burdell]

Well, I bet that during an accident if the airbags deploy you're probably going to be temporarily deafened anyway, so I guess the only reason not to mount a gun there is to avoid (1) hit[ting] any innocent bystanders with bullets.

Local regulations may prohibit you from keeping a weapon under there.

So if you got a 7 Series with Protection, what would you do? I guess you'd have to carry an acetylene torch just in case. Maybe one of those Dremel Li-Ion Moto Tools can cut through the door in around... 2 hours, after breaking 40 cut off wheels...

If I were wealthy enough to afford that car, I'd hire myself an entourage and have them follow me around in a separate vehicle with the Jaws of Life in the trunk.