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Thread: M30 NA power

  1. #1
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    BMW E9 restoration

    Hello all.

    I just got an E9 3.0CS, and due to the fact it has a hole the size of a softball in the block, I'm going to replace the engine. While I'm doing that, I figured "Why not just get the motor performance up while it's out? I'm going to do it later anyway." So, I'd like to know ways of increasing the hp/tq of the M30 motor NA. I was looking at a Korman 3.9 stroker with either the 300 or 284 cams and the triple 40 or 45 weber carbs. I also saw that Metric Mechanic also has stroker engines. Does anyone else do M30 strokers?

    Oh yeah, the engine uses carbs, and I'd prefer not to go mototronic.
    Last edited by xatlas0; 11-27-2006 at 11:23 PM.

  2. #2
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    You lucky dog, you have the bmw of my dreams. I have wanted a 3.0cs since '74. As far as the engine goes, I'm not that familiar with what's available, the Korman thing sounds like a neat trick. Is your engine toast? I have a friend with a 3.0s Bavaria that lost the crank and a rod due to the previous owner not checking the oil. If you have usable parts, I would like to know. Bill
    "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"
    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
    "Shoot low Sheriff! They're riding Shetlands!"
    "Guns kill people and spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat"
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking."
    "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once."

  3. #3
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    Ouch! Throwing a rod is not an experience I would care to have. Yes, the engine is burnt, it's so toast. Like I said, it has a hole in the actual block of the motor. The thing leaks coolant like a sieve. As for parts, I am going to replace the Zenith carbs (Yes, it has the original 35/40 Zeniths, in good tune, no less) with some triple 40 DCOE Webers. I figure, since the collectablity is already shot, why not go all out? The engine itself, aside from the hole, seems to be in fine form. I won't know what parts I'll have to sell until I get the thing running again, I'm afraid. At this point, I just have to get the thing running, as If I don't within a month or so, I will lose the car.

  4. #4
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    have fun with those triple webers - I put triple DCOE 40s on my Datsun 280Z and have never regretted it. As far as Zeniths go I dont know anything about them but the triple webers definitely allow me much more room for mods than the original Bosch L-Jetronic FI. They also look waaaay cooler.
    Joe

  5. #5
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    Since you have such a collector's item, here is something to check into. It seems to me that the 3.0/3.3 blocks are the same. Look on the left side under the manifold, it should be cast there. If your head is good, why not look for another short block? I don't know what differences there might be between an injected and a carbed short block but I would be willing to bet there aren't any. Which means, that an old 530, 533, 733, etc, etc., short block would work. With rings and bearings and your head, you would have the start of a really gonzo ride. I LIKE the idea of the Webers. This could be really cool. Bill
    "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"
    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
    "Shoot low Sheriff! They're riding Shetlands!"
    "Guns kill people and spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat"
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking."
    "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once."

  6. #6
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    Well, after much searching, testing, and a bunch of asking, here is the new engine setup for the car: (economy style)

    1987 735 complete motor
    removing 735 intake manifold, replacing with old intake/dual Zeniths
    using old distributor, front plate, oil pan, intake, and carbs.

    This should get me the higher compression while keeping the carbs and under 1000$ total. This setup should give me 220+ HP, 230+ft-lbs, and 22mpg with the 4 speed. Also, since it will be from an 87 735, it won't need any special motor mount adapters or stuff like that. All in all, it should satisfy my needs of taking it to body shops and interior places to get quotes. Once I get that taken care of, time to boost the performance!

    I think, though, that my first priority is to get it running right, or at least in an acceptable state of tune. After that, some suspension upgrades and brake upgrades will probably be in order, then a 5 speed, and lastly, a 284 cam, headers, and perhaps the double weber 40 DCOEs. The Weber prices right now are insane because they have been on strike for the last year, and part reserves are gone. Thusly, it makes a lot more sense to just hold out now that production has resumed. With those engine mods, I would estimate about 260HP/270ft-lbs. After that, it's time for FI, and the real fun begins...

    As for the exterior/interior, I was going to get the car painted calypso red, the e34 metallic dark red. I was going to redo the interior in black leather with red stitching, and stain the wood (or get new wood and sell the old) a deep cherry color. If I can, I'd like to put some diamond black BBS-RGRs. I have them on my E34 and love them. I imagine HIDs are out of the question, but better night visibility would be nice. What do you guys think?

    Oh, and current pictures:
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=369457

    I will start the fun of engine removal this weekend while I'm waiting for my BavRecycle motor to arrive.

  7. #7
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    Sounds to me like the fun is about to start!!! You are moving along faster than I am. Good luck and keep us posted.
    "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"
    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
    "Shoot low Sheriff! They're riding Shetlands!"
    "Guns kill people and spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat"
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking."
    "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once."

  8. #8
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    Well, I ordered the engine today. 590$ from Bavarian Auto Recyclers. Funny how shipping cost more than half the cost of the motor. It should be here sometime within the next two weeks.

  9. #9
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    Did you miss my email? I had an entire 5speed 535i for $500 for your swap. No problem though I'll keep it for parts.

  10. #10
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    No room for a parts car, unfortunately. My driveway already looks like a used car lot. I think if I got another, my folks would have my head.

  11. #11
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    What's the 5 speed? Too bad you guys are so far away. Sounds like you are on the right track, make that old baby scream!!!
    "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"
    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
    "Shoot low Sheriff! They're riding Shetlands!"
    "Guns kill people and spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat"
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking."
    "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once."

  12. #12
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    My lift got here 2 days ago, and the conversion parts are coming from La Jolla BMW. Talked with Carl Nelson; guy knows his stuff. Chalk up another 200$ or so to bring the 3.5 conversion total to 1100$.

    Got from La Jolla:
    cam conversion nut (40$)
    lots of gaskets (intake, exhaust, valve cover, front cover, oil pan) (50$)
    electric fuel pump (50$)

    From BavAuto:
    1987 735i motor long block : 590$

    Everything else is shipping, so far. Heck, shipping the engine cost more than half the motor itself.

  13. #13
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    Keep us posted, I personally am salavating at the possibilities.
    "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"
    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
    "Shoot low Sheriff! They're riding Shetlands!"
    "Guns kill people and spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat"
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking."
    "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once."

  14. #14
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    Worked on it for about 9 hours this weekend; got everything out and ready to go except for the transmission. I am debating wether or not to remove it or try to finangle the bellhousing off while leaving the transmission on. As it is, such a task will have to wait until next weekend, since no buddy to work on the car with and to help me out except for the weekend.

    I need to get some crescent or S style wrenches for this task.

  15. #15
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    Well, based on the e9 enthusiast board's suggestion, I am going to disconnect the transmission from the driveshaft at the guibo and lift out the entire drivetrain, engine, bellhousing, and transmission. My lift and lack of certain tools (like a spring compressor) means I can't do the "easiest" route of unbolting the front subframe and lifting the body off the drivetrain. However, I will get that motor out this weekend, even if I have to watch the fireworks from my garage!

    Oh, and the new M30 comes on wednesday.

  16. #16
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    Engine is out, parts swapping between motors is coming along nicely. I gotta say, though, there is enough crud on the old motor to make three gallons of mineral spirits into a paste, rather than a clear, non-viscous liquid like it is normally.

  17. #17
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    I love turbos!
    Keep us updatedon the progress as I have a friend contemplating the exact same thing. Are you using the Motronic and the stock intake manifold? What about the brake booster?

  18. #18
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    Did you end up taking the trans off the engine? I need to get back to work on my 6
    "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"
    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
    "Shoot low Sheriff! They're riding Shetlands!"
    "Guns kill people and spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat"
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking."
    "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once."

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Beastmaster
    Keep us updatedon the progress as I have a friend contemplating the exact same thing. Are you using the Motronic and the stock intake manifold? What about the brake booster?
    Actually, I am running the dual Zenith carbs, the 35/40's. I have to finish this really quick, so I figured the fewer changes I make, the easier it will be.

    Yep, I took off the exhaust, transmission, undid the driveshaft, the whole 9 yards. I ended up removing the exhaust first, then the transmission, half pulling the engine, then removing the bellhousing, cursing the fact that I don't have a load leveller, and finally pulling the whole engine out.

    Oh, for the transmission, it slides out really easy, except for one thing. Once you undo the 4 main bolts connecting the bellhousing to the transmission, look inside the clutch inlet of the bellhousing, and you will see a spring clip attached to the synchro activator in the transmission. Before you go pulling like crazy, remove that clip! It took my father and I about 30 min of yanking, prying, and otherwise cursing to finally grab a light and notice that little dang clip. Then the whole transmission came right out.

  20. #20
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    Well, I am about even with you. Exhaust off, trans out, need to pull bell housing. When I get time. Taking a week off and going to the coast. Later.
    "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"
    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
    "Shoot low Sheriff! They're riding Shetlands!"
    "Guns kill people and spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat"
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking."
    "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once."

  21. #21
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    Ordered all new pumps, hoses, and last of the gaskets from Carl Nelson yesterday. This thing should purr once I get the carbs tuned. At the moment, I'm cleaning off the headers, grinding off enough rust to make my shirt red. Also, got the VIN decoded by the BMW Archive people. Turns out the car was made on July 13, 1972, delivered on the 18th, and was originally Polaris Metallic silver. (paint code 060) Heck of a 33rd birthday for a car, no?

  22. #22
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    Another weeknd, more stuff done for the swap.

    Hoses and water pump did not come, but motor mounts, oil pump and gasket did. However, due to so many of the hoses requiring very tight confines, I have decided to wait and put in the engine after I get all the other stuff in.

    So, this weekend, I:
    changed oil pump
    swapped oil pans
    added cam conversion nut
    switched timing covers, rocker covers
    mated transmission/clutch/bellhousing/engine
    replaced mounts (motor and transmission)
    painted block
    pressure washed transmission/engine
    put on intake manifolds with carbs
    put on all brackets
    fixed control linkages
    added motor mount plates

    So, as soon as I get the rest of the parts in, that engine is going right back in. Here's hoping it will all work on the first try! (yeah, right)

  23. #23
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    Congrats, you are moving right along. Alas, mine is gathering dust. My busiest time of the year, I hope to get something done soon. I'm still interested in what parts (crank, rods) might be left over when you get done.
    "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"
    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
    "Shoot low Sheriff! They're riding Shetlands!"
    "Guns kill people and spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat"
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking."
    "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once."

  24. #24
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    I *think* I've taken off all the parts I need from the old motor. Lemme see... what's left that I won't use in a mototronic swap later...

    Ah! ok, here's what's left:
    Euro pistons
    Euro crankshaft/ con rods
    Euro head/camshaft/rockers
    Front lower timing cover
    Old (but still good!) oil pump and sump

    Stuff you'd need for a complete engine:
    Upper front timing cover
    Distributor drive gear
    Distributor
    Intake manifolds
    I would *highly* reccomend a new water pump
    Fuel pump (I think it is kaput, but I have the mechanical one, if interested.)
    Oil pan

    I can take pics, if you want, but I mostly left the engine as intact as I could make it. From what I could see (with the oil pan and rocker cover off) the engine had the nice, even, golden color throughout. I bet this thing ran like a top until the PO blew it. It appears that a coolant passage blew open, as the engine held oil. (a Lot of oil, which is now all over the garage floor) Thusly, I imagine all the important internals are still in fine shape. The oil pump works because I tried to crank the engine a few times, and in doing so, the oil pressure light went out. I tried this multiple times, so I think it works.

    Like I've said before, the motor is from a 1972 3.0 CS, built in July 1972.

  25. #25
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    thanks for keeping us updated on your project.that doesn't always happen.my 203k engine also has the golden sheen under the covers,with no accumulation of caked up oil.i dont redline this baby,but always hit at least 5k on every drive,frequently.hope this M30 doesn't blow like the one you're replacing.i dont beat it mind you,but she does get driven.and revs soo freely.an engine needs to breathe,right?

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