Dinans big secret about 540i intake manifolds!?

[robbtennis]

This is a great thread I've happened upon! I have an '03 E53 4.6is that I'm about to crack open in order to refurbish the VANOS and replace the timing chain plus guides. So here's my question to this experienced group: would adding a better exhaust, the M60 intake manifold, bigger throttle body and CAI be advisable? Or should I leave those parts alone and enjoy my 130k mile engine while it lasts?

Thanks in advance,

Robb

[Santaclaus4]

Interesting thread indeed. Some of you mofo's have been on here a long time.

[JimLev]

Robb, you'll also need the software upgrades to get any noticable improvement out of all that hardware.
I found that the stage 1 was the biggest benifit with the redline being bumped up as well as the RPM limit.
Ive got all you mentioned plus more, the gain was not really worth the cost. But hey if you've got the cash burning a hole in your pocket go for it.
Skip the Dinan muffler, there are a lot of others that are 1/4 the price.

[seagreen323i]

This thread was started when I was 4 years old wow

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[Santaclaus4]

I was in my 40's when this thread was started. Lol

[robbtennis]

Robb, you'll also need the software upgrades to get any noticable improvement out of all that hardware.
I found that the stage 1 was the biggest benifit with the redline being bumped up as well as the RPM limit.
Ive got all you mentioned plus more, the gain was not really worth the cost. But hey if you've got the cash burning a hole in your pocket go for it.
Skip the Dinan muffler, there are a lot of others that are 1/4 the price.

Thanks for the great advice. I've found much cheaper exhausts available than Dinan product. Maybe I'll just install one of those with an x-pipe instead and go from there. And no I don't have excess money to burn. I just wanted the most bang for my buck as they say!

[RosieE39]

This is a great thread I've happened upon! I have an '03 E53 4.6is that I'm about to crack open in order to refurbish the VANOS and replace the timing chain plus guides. So here's my question to this experienced group: would adding a better exhaust, the M60 intake manifold, bigger throttle body and CAI be advisable? Or should I leave those parts alone and enjoy my 130k mile engine while it lasts?

Thanks in advance,

Robb

The E53 4.6is already uses the early big runner manifold.


http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/11611729528/

[JimLev]

This thread was started when I was 4 years old wow

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Guess you were probably tooling around on your big wheel?

[seagreen323i]

Guess you were probably tooling around on your big wheel?

Working on a 240z with Dad and a BMW 2002 with Grandpa!

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[JimLev]

Working on a 240z with Dad and a BMW 2002 with Grandpa!

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When you were 4? Congrats.

[seagreen323i]

When you were 4? Congrats.

More like watching lol

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[Bwingnutt]

The m60 manifold by itself will cause a big loss in low rpm torque up to 3000rpm on the m62 tu motor. Now that’s on a stock motor with a stage 1 Dinah tune.

[seagreen323i]

Soon here I'm going to get another dyno pull done when I get my manifold mounted. I hear way too many contradicting claims surrounding this.

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[R Shaffner]

The m60 manifold by itself will cause a big loss in low rpm torque up to 3000rpm on the m62 tu motor. Now that’s on a stock motor with a stage 1 Dinah tune.

I can't comment on the last part of this, the part what says "with a stage 1 Dinan tune."

But I CAN comment on the suggestion that the bigger intake runners hurt low-end torque, compared to the thinner runners on the M62TU. My reaction is: Maybe a little, at part throttle, but not really, not wide open. This mod is so good it's a no-brainer. I have an M62 intake on an M62TU. And believe me, I use low-end torque a LOT. It's just how I like to drive this car -- it pulls so well at low rpm. Often leave it in 2nd and do a real slow rolling stop at stop signs, and pull away in 2nd.

And there's a BIG difference in how the engine revs to redline with the bigger M62 or M60 runners. I've owned both an M62 and M62TU. The TU ran out of air above 5,000 rpm until I put the old manifold on it.

[R Shaffner]

Wait a minute. I just re-read this and see that you have a 4.6. Someone said you already have the bigger runners. That engine is already a lot stronger than the 4.4 M62TU.

Maybe you can get a little more by putting a larger N62 TB on it. And by modifying the mounting plate to go with it. Maybe. A little. But I doubt you'll notice the difference unless you crank it to redline often, and maybe not even then.

My advice is to keep it well maintained as it is. I wish my 4.4 M62TU had your 10.5 compression ratio and higher output.

[whiteghost1]

I can't comment on the last part of this, the part what says "with a stage 1 Dinan tune."

But I CAN comment on the suggestion that the bigger intake runners hurt low-end torque, compared to the thinner runners on the M62TU. My reaction is: Maybe a little, at part throttle, but not really, not wide open. This mod is so good it's a no-brainer. I have an M62 intake on an M62TU. And believe me, I use low-end torque a LOT. It's just how I like to drive this car -- it pulls so well at low rpm. Often leave it in 2nd and do a real slow rolling stop at stop signs, and pull away in 2nd.

And there's a BIG difference in how the engine revs to redline with the bigger M62 or M60 runners. I've owned both an M62 and M62TU. The TU ran out of air above 5,000 rpm until I put the old manifold on it.

This is true if you have a 6spd manual, if you have a auto m62tu, 4.4L variant for our discussion, the loss under 3K rpm at anything other than WOT is more pronounced. I realized this recently when I swapped from auto->manual gearbox.

[R Shaffner]

This is true if you have a 6spd manual, if you have a auto m62tu, 4.4L variant for our discussion, the loss under 3K rpm at anything other than WOT is more pronounced. I realized this recently when I swapped from auto->manual gearbox.

Thx! Good to know. (I wondered if that was the case. No sense in having the smaller runners on the TU, otherwise.)

[toybreaker]

Soon here I'm going to get another dyno pull done when I get my manifold mounted. I hear way too many contradicting claims surrounding this.

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Post the results..... Grabbed a 97 740I manifold to compliment the Dinan tb to CAI my car already has..... If it is worth it I will go with a DUDMD tune, since DINAN does not return phone calls or emails.

Already had a stage 4 tune...

[Rich8]

I just got through reading this entire thread and there's a lot of good information going back and forth, but for me just a little bit confusing. Could somebody please confirm what I think is being said here.
I have a 2003 E39 540i 6-speed and I am looking at putting the inlet manifold from a 97 540 on here, which I believe has the bigger runners. Can you please confirm that there is a torque loss below 3000 unless at WOT, but it's not so noticeable with the 6-speed car, with normal driving.
I can see that there is a gain on the top end but I am concerned with looseing low and mid range torque in normal driving.
My car has the Dinan CAI and Stage 2 software, Mustang injectors and rear muffler delete.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm also thinking about putting a set of shorty headers on this car, does anybody have experience with this?

[JimLev]

Seagreen, back in June you were going to have your car dynoed. Did that ever happen? Got any numbers?

Rich8, get some long tube headers.

[seagreen323i]

Seagreen, back in June you were going to have your car dynoed. Did that ever happen? Got any numbers?

Rich8, get some long tube headers.

I have stock numbers. Never got around to installing the bigger intake. Its still in the trunk lol.

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[JimLev]

What were your stock numbers?

[seagreen323i]

Max hp was 260 max tq was 313. Bone stock no mods.

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[R Shaffner]

I just got through reading this entire thread and there's a lot of good information going back and forth, but for me just a little bit confusing. Could somebody please confirm what I think is being said here.
I have a 2003 E39 540i 6-speed and I am looking at putting the inlet manifold from a 97 540 on here, which I believe has the bigger runners. Can you please confirm that there is a torque loss below 3000 unless at WOT, but it's not so noticeable with the 6-speed car, with normal driving.
I can see that there is a gain on the top end but I am concerned with looseing low and mid range torque in normal driving.

Short answer: If you ever like to rev the engine up toward redline for max acceleration, then DO IT! You won't regret it, especially since you have a 6-speed.

Longer answer:

I had a '97 540-6 that I drove for 200,000 miles. I knew that power curve very well. After it got totaled I got an '02 540-6. Vanos seemed great in daily driving. But when I revved it for max acceleration it felt like it was running out of air above 5,000 rpm. Not like the M62 that was happy all the way up to the rev limiter. I found myself shifting up early on the TU. The narrow runners might have helped the part-throttle mid-range (which Vanos already helps), but they def hurt the top end.

I put the '97 manifold on, had the battery unplugged for a while to reset adaptations, and was immediately satisfied. The top end was back! Felt just like the M62 at the high end. It might have lost a little on part throttle in the mid-range. Might. A little. But who cares if part-throttle is a little less, when all one has to do in that gear is open the throttle a little wider? (One can't do that all the way on an automatic without making it kick-down. But with a manual, giving it WOT in the mid-range just lets all that nice torque come on through.)

With Vanos, the mid-range on the M62TU is already stronger than on the M62. It felt just as strong to me after the change. And more importantly, the free-breathing top end was back. (Since you're coming at it from a TU, that's what you'll notice most. Suddenly it will be nice to rev it above 5,000 rpm.)

In summary, the old manifold on the M62TU gives you the best of both engines --- the mid-range of the TU and the top end of the M62.

[JimLev]

As R Shaff said DO IT.
Get a tune, CAI, bigger throttle body, and a few more goodies (headers) and you’ll be pulling all the way up to 6500 before the rev limiter starts to kick in.