Dinans big secret about 540i intake manifolds!?

[Manny G.]

Manny G. just to clarify.

you are running Bosch part# 0280155710 which is rated at 220cc on your M62tu.

your original rating for the following Bosch part# in post #14 was incorrect:
0280155710 - 200cc min @ 3bar 14.5 Resistance (ohm) - 19.04 LB/hr

ditto on trying to figure out if this makes a difference on the tu engines.

G~

Correct. Seems like the site where I pulled all of the info from had the wrong flow rate listed... hmmm. Either way, 20# injectors are about the max you can take advantage of... anything higher isn't worth it or will run rich and not much performance.

[bmwhiteman]

So still no one can confirm that the TU doesnt already have design IIIs? I would upgrade to the same flow rate but since the desigh IIIs have 4 mist nozzles instead of a single bazooka like what was on my e34 540i, better fuel economy and throttle response would be seen

[Reefin Dude]

can you tell that by looking at the removed injector? i would think that Manny could tell if he has not thrown away the old ones.

G~

[Manny G.]

can you tell that by looking at the removed injector? i would think that Manny could tell if he has not thrown away the old ones.

G~

I'll snap a few pictures of them soon. They are 4port spray and look very similar to the yellow ones.

0280155823 is the oem bmw bosch part number

[bmwhiteman]

I'll snap a few pictures of them soon. They are 4port spray and look very similar to the yellow ones.

0280155823 is the oem bmw bosch part number

Thats weird. my part number for the oem bosch injector is 13641707843
http://realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/y/b/37.png
number 5

[Manny G.]

Thats weird. my part number for the oem bosch injector is 13641707843
http://realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/y/b/37.png
number 5

Thats OEM BMW part number, not Bosch part number. Also, I found out the Bosch part number is specific to BMW only. I snapped a few pictures of the injectors, I'm going to upload them shortly..

[Manny G.]

Here ya go..







I'm not sure how important those 'disc' looking pieces are on the tips... they were one of the reasons I changed them. They may be replaceable, but I don't know for sure. I also have all 8 clips and a set of 16 brand new O-rings I didn't need to use because the new yellow Bosch injectors could not use the clips and had new O-rings on them already.

[Manny G.]

These injectors are also found on:

E38: Details on E38
E38 740i Sedan
E38 740iL Sedan
E38 740iLP Sedan

E39: Details on E39
E39 540i Sedan
E39 540i Touring
E39 540iP Sedan

E52: Details on E52
E52 ALPINA V8 Roadster

E53: Details on E53
E53 X5 4.4i SUV
E53 X5 4.6is SUV

[OldGringo]

One advantage no one mentions.
Several years ago I put the ex-Ford injectors in a 94 740i and while driving in OK I accidently took on a load of 80/20 high methanol fuel that had been mislabeled as regular plus. The car would barely do 55 mph wide open but it did still run and I do not think it would have with the OEM injectors.
Point is, more and more places you can only get fuel labled "10% methanol", so no telling what it really is, and I think that the larger injectors compensate for this.

[mattmartindrift]

show me a single station in the US with methanol-mixed fuel.

[samtodd]

He probably meant ethanol?

[qcdstick]

if he did mean ethanol, then his entire post is just hilarious. :-)

I don't know anywhere in Texas or the US where methanol blends are common, 10% ethanol is everywhere. In any case, there is no way a 10 or 20% ethanol blend caused his car to run like that. E85... Maybe. E20? no way.

Maybe he was visiting China and got methanol blend? That I know nothing about. :-)

[EditTim]

I really wish I could find NO ethanol blended gas here in Atlanta metro, but it just doesn't exist in the city, it's all 10%. It causes composite gas tanks on motorcycles (Ducati, Aprilia, etc.) to swell and cause problems with seals. The Ducati folks have a real problem with it. Recalled tanks, etc. Ethanol is hydrophilic, meaning it bonds with water. So, the longer it sits, the more moisture it absorbs, swelling tanks and causing other problems. Not a huge problem for me since I actually ride my bikes a lot, so the fuel never sits in my tanks for long, but still, I just wish the stuff would go away.

Nice thread revival, BTW.

Perfect timing for me since I just received my m62 pre-vanos manifold today. All of this injector talk has me interested. It doesn't look like the question was answered regarding the injectors for the m62TU engines.

Are the OEM injectors for the the vanos motors (m62TU) the Gen III injectors that "have vastly better atomization"?

[OldGringo]

It has been 3 or 4 years and it was that high alcohol blend that was being sold in a few stations.

[aspensilver540]

OK I have a pre-vanos v8 117K miles, any reason to consider injector replacement? Really better fuel economy? Anyone done some good before and after tests?
If you used a DIY when doing it, please share

[topaz540i]

So does anyone konw if the dinan maf and throttlebody are just m60 parts too?

[OldGringo]

Unless you are getting a code I would leave the originals in. I changed mine for the yellow Bosch/Ford/Ebay special deal rebuilt, flow matched injectors at about 160K and ended up with worse mileage and injector fault codes.
Granted, I could have just ended up with a bad batch of injectors, but, I have just started the job of changing back to the OEM red top Bosch units. Which you can get rebuilt from Rockauto for a very nice price.

[Dj Pudgey]

So does anyone konw if the dinan maf and throttlebody are just m60 parts too?

I believe the MAF is OEM Bosch in a an aluminum case. It might also be calibrated differently.

[EditTim]

Unless you are getting a code I would leave the originals in. I changed mine for the yellow Bosch/Ford/Ebay special deal rebuilt, flow matched injectors at about 160K and ended up with worse mileage and injector fault codes.
Granted, I could have just ended up with a bad batch of injectors, but, I have just started the job of changing back to the OEM red top Bosch units. Which you can get rebuilt from Rockauto for a very nice price.

HERE is a great post where the poster tests all of the available injectors for the m60/m62 engines. A good read. What sounds good in theory may not be so great in practice, which sounds like what happened to you.
His conclusion:

...the original choices by BMW are always the best, at least in my case it was not a drop in upgrade even if this or that type are technically superior, the engine needs what it was designed for and around. BMW engineers knew exactly what they were using and made each design in such a way that it worked as a whole.

M60 - Use Lucas

M62 - Use Bosch pintle maroon top

M62tu - Use Bosch design III

Make sense to me!

[mattmartindrift]

I believe the MAF is OEM Bosch in a an aluminum case. It might also be calibrated differently.

The actual MAFS wouldn't be calibrated differently, the voltage curve will be the same for that particular sensor (albeit, it will change if the internal dimensions of the aluminum housing differ), the software in the DME will scale the injectors differently based off of the MAFS voltage output [to the DME].

It has been 3 or 4 years and it was that high alcohol blend that was being sold in a few stations.

I think you meant ethanol - plant-distilled alcohol.

I really wish I could find NO ethanol blended gas here in Atlanta metro, but it just doesn't exist in the city, it's all 10%. It causes composite gas tanks on motorcycles (Ducati, Aprilia, etc.) to swell and cause problems with seals. The Ducati folks have a real problem with it. Recalled tanks, etc. Ethanol is hydrophilic, meaning it bonds with water. So, the longer it sits, the more moisture it absorbs, swelling tanks and causing other problems. Not a huge problem for me since I actually ride my bikes a lot, so the fuel never sits in my tanks for long, but still, I just wish the stuff would go away.

I think you mean hygroscopic - like brake fluid. Hydrophillic basically means it's miscible in water. hygroscopic essentially will pull water/vapor from its environment.

[EditTim]

I think you mean hygroscopic - like brake fluid. Hydrophillic basically means it's miscible in water. hygrophobic essentially will pull water/vapor from its environment.

You're right, what I should have said was ethanol was too hygroscopic. Brake fluids (DOT 3,4, & 5.1) are hygroscopic, meaning they absorb water. Non-hygroscopic fluids, like (silicone based) DOT 5, are hydrophobic, and want to separate from water. So yeah, a different property really. My bad.

[mattmartindrift]

Woops, I said "hygrophobic" instead of "hygroscopic" - too much time in the lab.

I deal with hydrophobic pigments/powders day in and day out.

[topaz540i]

Nothing like listening to two backwoods meth chefs bicker about the properties of used battery acid....

[mattmartindrift]

i said powder not crystals - it's white, too.

[Bimmerman4ever]

Keeping the thread alive. I have a 97 740iL with the M62B44 non vanos and am definitely impressed with it's performance and massive amounts of torque. Still strong with 200k miles on it All I have is a CAI and muffler delete.