Does ceramic coating the headers help?

[RPM_M3]

I've seen headers w/ a ceramic paint coating that drastically reduced the heat they give off. This lowers the underhood temps and can make for cooler intake air.

Anyone have experience w/ this? Does it do any good, or are the M3 heat shields good enough? Any negative effects?

Thanx!

[Skyman]

I cant see how there is any negative effect other than the cost. I wouldnt think it would be worth lowering the temps a few degrees unless you had a turbo setup or something like that that created a lot more heat.

[sik325IS]

Ceramic coatings are stronger than metal and lower internal friction which results in more power and lower temps, yes. Lower fuel emissions too.

There is a relatively inexpensive method to do it:

www.rvs-tec.ca

I've treated two BMW's so far, one of them I own right now. Both had smoother idling and improved gas mileage by about 3 mpg's. Pretty damn good! Oh and lifter tick diminished...

[Chuck]

You've treated headers with RVS and gotten better mileage?


I think you're on a different page than what we're talking about. The question RPM69 had was related to ceramic coatings on headers, which keep waste heat from bleeding into the engine bay and heat soaking the underhood components.

Thanks for the link though - that flash movie was hilarious! Some statements:

"Lubricants have constantly been developed better and better."

"Simultaneously, the magnesium burns and the freed silicate groups react with the ferrous atoms of the surface. In other words, a chemical reaction takes place." (my favorite )

"...the technical parameters can be restored up to a level that can be even similar to the values given by the manufacturer!"

"The flash movie does a good job explaining the theory behind RVS. You might be left wondering if RVS works just like that in reality. It sure does..."

I'm sure you're telling the truth, that you've used this product and had good results. I just think their marketing is funny. Its designed to convince people without any chemistry knowledge of the superiority of this product. I went through a similar thing when I signed up as a Moly Black Gold distributor back in the early 90's. First there was PTFE, then molybdenum based stuff, now this "magnesiumsilicates" RVS offers. These products are little more than snake oil.

I think that if such products really worked, BMW would have been buying it by the truckload for use in the S54 motor. No manufacturer I know of uses "lubrication enhancers" in their factory race teams either.

[sik325IS]

Ops! Yes I completely overlooked the fact that you are talking about headers... I was thinking engine internals and such...

Hah yeah I think the english on that flash is a little... umm... broken.. to say the least. Its kinda funny.

But all jokes aside, I've tried it and have seen it work and last too. I don't care the least little bit about what speculants that haven't even tried this have to say. It's all empty theorizing done by people with phD's in chemistry and tribology

You called it a "lubrication enhancer" and "snake oil". I think this is where RVS probably has the most problem with marketing their product: people confuse it with oil additives too damn much. If you read up you will see it has nothing to do with oils. It reacts with the metal directly. Which is why I gave it a shot, it sounded logical and made sense. Thats the only way you are going to get a permanent result, modifying the oils lasts until your next change...

And there is a racing team in Finland that uses RVS, they were a rally team, i forget what they were called or in what class they race but i'm sure you'll find it on google.

As for BMW and other car manufacturers not using this by the "boatload" on their engines... well, I'll let you figure that one out on your own I'll just give you a hint, it's not because it doesn't work

[sik325IS]

Oh by the way I forgot to mention. I recently treated my 2002 R6 with this stuff. Because the engine and tranny use the same oil, I was able to treat both at the same time with one product. Well, after putting about 1300 miles on it since, I can say DAYMN!!! Yamaha's are notorious for notchy f@@#$ng transmissions. Mine was pretty bad, especially going from 1st to 2nd. Now it's still somewhat notchy, but not nearly as much. I can def. see an improvement. The engine has gotten a tiny bit smoother too, it seems. Gas mileage went up too... thats all the proof I need. Now all I want to know is if it's going to last so long like it has in the BMW's.

[clintjg]

I've got ceramic coated BHS headers I can say that there is much less heat coming off them than the stock ones but I can't comment on the engine bay temps because I've yet to retorque them and reinstall the heat shields.

[Dave04M3]

Well for one thing you have to consider is that BMW went to great lengths to begin with to limit underhood heat with the S54. If you notice the heat shield that covers the headers to a point you can't even see the things. Also the intake is on the other side of the motor to keep the injested air temps cooler as well. I for one believe that on a street car ceramic or jethot coating headers is a waste of money. First off the headers are made of stainless steel which already have good heat insulation properties and aid in scavenging, not to mention the heat shielding thats already been done to the car as I mentioned in my opening.

That being said there have been quite a few tests by drag racers who race Mustangs, these are cars that are making over 600rwhp. When they tested ceramic coated vs. non ceramic coated they found 2rwhp...thats right 2rwhp. In fact this could have been the margin of error from the different days of the dyno runs. If underhood heat is really a issue header wrap is a better alternative, but header wrap will destroy a set of headers if any moisture gets in there. Thats why header wrap is really only good for race cars as the engines are contstantly being torn apart and the headers will usually be rewrapped or replaced if there is a failure there.

I personally believe anyone who sells ceramic-coating is really trying to just line their pockets with a little more dough. This is just my .02...

Dave

[Dave04M3]

I've got ceramic coated BHS headers I can say that there is much less heat coming off them than the stock ones but I can't comment on the engine bay temps because I've yet to retorque them and reinstall the heat shields.

A lot less heat also for the fact the cats are moved farther down the exhaust stream...Its the cats that really heat up down there. With the longtubes there will me less heat ceramic coated or not.

Dave

[clintjg]

A lot less heat also for the fact the cats are moved farther down the exhaust stream...Its the cats that really heat up down there. With the longtubes there will me less heat ceramic coated or not.

Dave

No cats.

[Chuck]

No cats.

Been meaning to ask you about that. What did you do for the SES/CEL light that would result from having no cats?

[Dave04M3]

No cats.

Even better

Dave

[clintjg]

Been meaning to ask you about that. What did you do for the SES/CEL light that would result from having no cats?

I bought a peake tool and I'm dealing w/ it for now. I plan on adding some Power Cats in the coming weeks after I get a dyno done.