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Thread: New M3 owner, need some modding advice

  1. #1
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    Cool New M3 owner, need some modding advice

    Hi everyone. I am new to this forum, as I just got my 99 M3. So far I love it. When I went to pick up the car, I noticed it had some nice surprises. These include a Dinan exhaust and Dinan software. I want to continue with these "easy" mods, so I could use some help. I was considering going with the Dinan Throttle body, cold air induction and mass air flow meter. Of course since it is dinan, the costs are $299, $399 and $400(with a $300 installation kit) respecively. The reason I was thinking to go this route is first I would get close to 275hp and 270ft-lb of torque, which should be noticable. Also, with these mods I will get the dinan badge which I would like, and which I think will be good if i ever try to sell the car. Is there a better path to take? Basically, I looking for a decent performance increase, without spending more than 2k. Clears are also in the works and then suspensin components would be next. Thanks everyone
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  2. #2
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    ///M's
    A CAI would be the best bang for your buck. Check out my list of mods in my sig for ideas.
    Do you plan on tracking your car? If so, I'd wait on suspensions until you get more familiar with the car.

  3. #3
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    Replacing the HFM and the throttle body doesn't do much on an OBD-2 engine. A cold air intake will give you a little more power, but don't expect a whole lot. A stock 3.2L M3 will dyno at somewhere around 209-213 hp at the rear wheels on a Dynojet. CAI and chip will probably get it up to around 219-223 rwhp on the same Dynojet.

    Best mod for the money would be to first mod the driver. Take some driving schools, track schools, and autocrosses. After that, you should have a good idea of the car's weaknesses, and can plan out your mods better...

    Jim

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys. Again, I am asking your opinions, since I will not be taking it to the track, and I do not have the time to learn what works best. I have no intention of racing this car. I would like the mods for: 1- personal satisfaction, 2- resale(dinan badge). Is there any reasons I shouldnt get these products? I will also be doing the labor myself and will have my friend at the dealer re-flash my softwre once the mods are done. Thanks again

  5. #5
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    "Is there any reasons I shouldn't get these products?"
    Yeah, because they aren't going to get you any gains. Of course if you really want to spend the money on the HFM and bored out throttle body, go ahead, but don't expect any gains in power. The most restrictive parts of the intake system on a 3.2L OBD-II motor are the traction control secondary throttle body, the intake manifold, and the intake valves. Changing the HFM and throttle body won't do anything at all to remove these restrictions, so won't do anything at all to improve your power.

    Now, about resale - most mods will return pennies on the dollar when you sell the car. If you expect the Dinan badge to return anywhere near as much as you are going to spend, you're in for an unpleasant surprise. If you're really concerned about resale value, use your money towards keeping the stock car in pristine condition. Depending on the number of miles you have on the car, replace all the rubber bushings in the car, replace the stock shocks/struts, replace the front control arms and tie rods. Replace the radiator, and the water pump (even though the water pump on a 99 should have a metal impeller, water pumps wear out over time. Replacements are cheap compared to warped, overheated heads...). Do all the services. That will improve your resale value far beyond adding a Dinan badge to the trunk.

    Jim

  6. #6
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    Jim O - thank you for that plasant tone. I am aware that if i spend $3000, i may not get even 1500 back on resale. Yet, as seen on ebay, a dinan badge does command a premium. My point is that since I got the software and exhaust basically for free(seller did not notice these items), why not spend 1500 more and get the badge. Also, I disagree, although minor, the mods should make some difference. Esp since dyno'd all the mods generate about 275hp and 270 torque. Dinan also confirms these figures and they are always conservative.

  7. #7
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    I agree with Jim wholeheartedly.

    Fix what's worn, rather than 'upgrading' what you have. About the only easy bolt ons that give power on OBD II 3.2L, in order of decreasing returns are:

    UDP
    CAI
    Software

    Bigger TB and HFM do nothing. An exhaust does slightly more than nothing.

    Further, don't confuse 'racing' with 'tracking' your car. By tracking, most folks refer to going to DE (Driver education) events. Not a timed event, no race to the finish line, with very limited, controlled passing. You'll be w/ an instructor and learn how to drive and control your car beyond anything that can be learned cruising around the hood.

    For years, I sat around wanting to do one. I finally did last year, and now I'm hooked.
    In the slow lane

  8. #8
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    Forgive my ignorance (I'm an M3 noob)... but what's a UDP?
    Titanium Silver '99 M3 Coupe
    - JimC Intake/Shark Injector
    - AA Gen3 Exhaust
    - EvoSport Underdrive Pullies
    - Bilstein PSS9s / RE RSMs
    - X-Brace
    - UUC SSK/TMEs/Clutch Stop

  9. #9
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    UnderDrive Pulley.

    Commonly from Unorthodox Racing (URI), ERT, or Evosport.
    In the slow lane

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by frayed
    UnderDrive Pulley.

    Commonly from Unorthodox Racing (URI), ERT, or Evosport.
    Frayed. . .

    What type of increases can be expected with the UDP/CAI/Software alone. How does exhaust factor into the mix?

  11. #11
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    frayed.

    hey .. well i know on obd2 cars hfm and stuff doesnt really do anything .. how about on a 95 m3 ... does this list of mods do alot .. i wanna hit 300 .. dinan cai .. euro hfm .. 21.5 injectors ..ob tb .. exhaust .. track pipe .. ltw flywheel .. and sports clutch ??
    thanks

  12. #12
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    mk, expect about 20 rwhp b/t UDP, CAI, software, and exhaust. Perhaps 25. My exhaust dyno'd at about 2rwhp, much bigger gains from the UDP and CAI (18 together).

    evo, there are pretty well established and documented upgrade paths for an OBD I car. A few issues back, European Car did a complete blow-by-blow for all the common bolt-ons.

    In any event, I'd likely go right for the HFM/CAI/SW/Injectors from AA. I'm sure Conforti's equivalent kit is fine too, I just happen to like AA's kit. Then, get the track pipe if you want. I'd work on establishing a relationship with the tuner of your choice.

    A fly/clutch won't add power, just reduce rotating mass to increase acceleration, most notably in 1st and 2nd gears. If you plan on running one, don't use a URI or ERT UDP. Use Evosport's setup. As for fly, I like the new Rogue units.
    In the slow lane

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by Robario12
    My point is that since I got the software and exhaust basically for free(seller did not notice these items), why not spend 1500 more and get the badge.
    If you really want more points for the badge, why don't you spend your money on Dinan's suspension? It's one of the best street suspensions I've ever driven, and will give you 5 points or so towards a badge. And, at the very least, it's adding something that will make a significant enhancement to the car, not like some of the other Dinan bits.
    Also, I disagree, although minor, the mods should make some difference. Esp since dyno'd all the mods generate about 275hp and 270 torque. Dinan also confirms these figures and they are always conservative.
    Have you talked to anyone who has all these mods on their car? Have you seen dyno sheets from anyone other than Dinan for these mods? I've done some dyno work on my OBD-II M3, and the numbers don't match with what Dinan is quoting. Other people on Bimmerforums, other M3 boards, and on M3 mailing lists have done the same sort of work, with the same results. Jim Conforti has done a lot of dyno and tuning work on the OBD-II M3, with the same results. Larger HFMs and throttle bodies will not give you any more power on an OBD-II 3.2L M3. Like I said before, the most restrictive parts of the intake side are the ASC throttle body, the intake manifold, and the intake valves. It doesn't matter how large you bore the throttle body, or which HFM you put on the car - unless you reduce one of the choke points on the intake, you won't gain anything. Just like putting a 6" tip on your exhaust won't do anything.

    Before you decide to buy, you might want to contact some other tuners to see what they say. Try Active Autowerkes, Turner Motorsport, TCKline, ERT, etc.

    Jim
    Last edited by Jim O.; 05-07-2002 at 06:36 PM.

  14. #14
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    I agree with these guys.. Throttle body is right next to the ACS throttle body both being the same size. If u bore out one and the other is still the same size.. ur still not opening the pathway anymore making the Dinan throttle body useless.

    Like Jim said above.. if u really want the badge.. go for the suspension!

    And I wouldnt believe Dinan's claims on the ODB II with the only the mods u mentioned at all. OBD II doesnt take well to these mods.
    06' BMW 530xi
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  15. #15
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    frayed .. well i like everything aa makes except their intake .. i have one on my 3 and i liek the dinan one better .. so that is why im asking .. can i use a dinan intake .. 540 hfm .. and buy injectors from somewhere else and just get th eaa chip and get the same results ?

  16. #16
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    Yes, I believe so. I may have a 540i hfm (euro hfm) for sale too. I agree on the CAI issue, BTW.
    In the slow lane

  17. #17
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    I have a 96 coupe and my best friend has a 98 coupe that he has dumped several thousand dollars into. He has had the CAI, throttle body, mass air sensor, exhaust and program upgrade. All of which is DINAN. We have raced on several different occasions and every time he gets frustrated. I have done nothing to my car not even a K&N air filter. He does beat me by about a car upto 70 or so. I do not like the way you can hear the engine sucking air with the CAI's. Most people put the loud exaust on to keep you from hearing the giant sucking sound. I do agree that the suspension is top notch if you want to go that route. You must be ready to sacrifice the ride and comfort especially on long trips. As far as the mods go, I think they end up hurting the value of the car more than they help it for a couple of reasons. One it appears that the owner has been flogging on the car even more than the average driver does. Two the more stuff that is done to a car the more frustrating it is to figure out what has and what has not been done if problems occur. Third you are customizing a car for yourself; you have no idea whether or not the guy that comes to look at it would want it like that or not. Modded cars definitely stay on the market longer. Chances are the badge would get stolen off the car anyway. Face it europe got the fast M3's the US did not. If speed is really what you are after a Super Charger is the solution for you. Most people that sell cars put them back to stock and auction off their mods. Just my $.02

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by frayed
    Yes, I believe so. I may have a 540i hfm (euro hfm) for sale too. I agree on the CAI issue, BTW.
    Frayed & EVO, what do you guys not like about the AA CAI? Just wondering since I'm running one. Originally was going to get a Conforti intake, but Turner didn't have it in stock. Being impatient, I went with the AA instead. The only thing I don't like about it is the K&N which is why I'm thinking of getting a compatible ITG to replace the K&N with.

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