Member
I have put a few thousand miles on the ZHP and have yet to shift out the gears smoothly. It's almost like something changes. It seems to shift best if you tach it up to 4K rpm, but don't want to do that every time. For one, it makes my sick!
The throttle is controlled entirely by wire (electronic), right? I also notice that the power is becoming unpredictable, especially when accelerating in 1st and 2nd. I can begin to accelerate lightly in 1st gear and slowly increase throttle position, and the engine just comes alive. Power is a good thing, but this is a daily driver! I end up lugging it through 1st and 2nd to keep from giving everyone whiplash! And don't criticize my driving ability, you would be barking up the wrong tree. This car is difficult to operate smoothly, although it hasn't always been so. I wonder if the VANOS is coming in and out at the wrong time?
Anybody else with a ZHP notice these things? I also still argue 1st gear is waaayyyy to low geared.
Member
Whoops! Wrong forum! Moving to just 'plain old E46'.
Retired Moderator
1st gear is low. Feel free to rev it out some, you don't want to lug the engine, either.
Use the clutch pedal to smooth it out, modulate, ride it a tad longer if you have to for a while, to get used to it. Practice makes perfect...
Member
What's 'lugging the engine'???
I learned to drive stick briefly on my friend's old Acura before picking up my ZHP. 1st to 2nd is my biggest problem area but if I'm shifting at 3k or 2.5k (depending on how traffic is) I just shift slower. 3.5k lets me shift normal and smooth. I find that I have to let the clutch out at varying speeds depending on how fast I'm accerlerating. 2nd to 3rd is pretty much always smooth and 3rd to 4th is always smooth. 4th to 5th is smoother at 3.5k otherwise I have to shift pretty fast. 5th to 6th is always smooth. These are my observations....I'm maybe an experienced beginner at manual tranny but these are my observations. I don't like 1st gear though....too low...
Retired Moderator
lugging the engine is giving it gas when the rpms are low, like under 1800-2000 rpms... it's not great for the valves and can also contribute to deposits and clogs in the injectors, etc...
Nunc est bibendum
could be the CDV... the CDV has been known to make it difficult to shift smoothly....
what is the CDV? http://www.zeckhausen.com/cdv.htm
Fred
330Ci zhp
<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/fredo/newsig.jpg">
Some people bring happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Member
I'm glad someone bought this issue up. I have a similiar problem with my 2001 M3. Usually when the car is cold I have sometimes have a hard time shifting into 2nd gear. It's very notchy and there's been a few instances where i shifted into second but it would just pop out and grind the gear slightly. I have the car at the dealership as we speak and they are looking into the problem .
Rest in peace, Coach
Hm, this forum is beginning to be plagued like various other forums about "ZHP"'s uniqueness.
Frankly, I've test driven a few ZHPs and its shift mechanism and clutch isn't that different from a regular 330i. In fact, I'm a quick look from the ETK away from guarantee'ing you that the ZHP and the run of the mill 330i uses the same clutch, clutch slave and master, and same transmission and shifter mechanisms.
So yeah, it's a ZHP specific problem.
"Bench racing" about track times driven by professionals are like a bunch of nerds arguing which Princess Leia is hotter, the slave Leia or the no-bra jail-bait Leia. No matter how compelling your argument is, the plain and simple fact is, none of you will EVER get to hit that.
Member
Thanks for the info and link! I have several years experience driving a manual and was starting to think I lost my touch!Originally Posted by fredo
Member
Geeze...he didn't say that it was ZHP specific... he just mentioned that that's the car he drives and wondered if anyone else with the same kind of car experienced the problem..no reason to tear him a new one..Hm, this forum is beginning to be plagued like various other forums about "ZHP"'s uniqueness.
Frankly, I've test driven a few ZHPs and its shift mechanism and clutch isn't that different from a regular 330i. In fact, I'm a quick look from the ETK away from guarantee'ing you that the ZHP and the run of the mill 330i uses the same clutch, clutch slave and master, and same transmission and shifter mechanisms.
So yeah, it's a ZHP specific problem.
as for the cdv.. it affects me more from a stop than from between gear shifting..
Don't like my driving? Get off the sidewalk!
Retired Moderator
HACK, as far as I understood it, the only thing unique about the ZHP with regards to the shifter, clutch, etc.... was the it uses the same shifter lever as the Z4, which makes the throws a little shorter...?
Other than that it's identical to the 330 in everyother way, correct?
Rest in peace, Coach
Doesn't get anymore ZHP specific than THAT.Anyone else have trouble shifting smoothly in a ZHP?
"Bench racing" about track times driven by professionals are like a bunch of nerds arguing which Princess Leia is hotter, the slave Leia or the no-bra jail-bait Leia. No matter how compelling your argument is, the plain and simple fact is, none of you will EVER get to hit that.
Member
For three years now I've been bitching to my dealer that my 325Cic has something wrong with the tranny. Nobody can drive this thing smoothly; not my wife, not my friends, and certainly not yours truly with 20 years of experience rowing a stick. Reading your link expains everything and perfectly describes my experience. If I didn't hate my local dealer so much, I'd forward the link to him so he could pull his head out of his a**.
My dissappointment with the manual is what literally forced me to get an M3 with SMG even though I prefer regular manuals.
Thanks for the info and it's enlightening to see that I'm not the only one having trouble with smooth shifts.
Member
So how would I handle real slow traffic or if I'm coming to a T-intersection and have to yield (me being the one on the vertical part of the T) and can't see clearly to the right because of trees (or something)? Just curious. I've been driving stick for less than a year.
Retired Moderator
Stay in first, if you can until 3000 rpms or so, or if you're already in 2nd and it's a downshift you wanna make, ride the clutch a little to keep the revs up, makes for a quicker take off, too, and smoother...So how would I handle real slow traffic or if I'm coming to a T-intersection and have to yield (me being the one on the vertical part of the T) and can't see clearly to the right because of trees (or something)? Just curious. I've been driving stick for less than a year.
It's ok to be under 1800-2000 rpms, just don't put a lot of weight on the engine by flooring it when you're that low, not all the time, that is...
A slow rev up ain't the worst thing in the world, but flooring the gas when you're at 1400 rpms, ain't ideal for the motor...
Rest in peace, Coach
The ETK does not show a different PN for the shifter rod in "performance package" equipped 330i/Cis vs. normal 6 speed 330i/Cis.
"Bench racing" about track times driven by professionals are like a bunch of nerds arguing which Princess Leia is hotter, the slave Leia or the no-bra jail-bait Leia. No matter how compelling your argument is, the plain and simple fact is, none of you will EVER get to hit that.
Retired Moderator
HACK, what's the difference then? Cuz it does feel shorter than the regular 330 (having driven both, back to back)...
I thought someone had once said the ZHP's shifter was lifted from the Z4 3.0....
Member
thanks for the input. Sorry to jack the thread. Is a slow gradual acceleration from, say, 1.5k RPM bad? I never floor the gas regardless of where the RPM's are at nor do I give it a lot of gas when the RPM's are below 1.8-1.9k. I always figured giving it all that gas and try to make things go faster when the engine feels bogged down wouldn't be a good thing so I've never done it.
Retired Moderator
It's not great for the engine to rev up in any gear other than 1st, from 1500 rpms or so...
Member
I don't have any trouble in my car. Take it to 4k, then shift. It is one of the easier cars to drive stick in.
I remember when the E36 M3 came out, there was a batch of complaints that it was hard to shift smoothly. When I got mine, I couldn't figure out what the fuss was about. It occured to me that most of the people who complained about it were coming from cars other than BMWs. I had zero trouble adjusting to the car because my previous car was an E36 325is.
To me, the 330 shifts and drive very very similarly to the E36 M3. And that car drove a lot like a 325. Maybe its just a BMW thing.
Member
Yeah, it's my first BMW. I have driven everything, literally. From Semi trucks, pickups, tractors, you name it. My first vehicle was a restored '62 Chevy C-10. I can still shift that old truck smoother than my ZHP, but I have come to some conclusions.IMaybe its just a BMW thing.
1. The throttle is by wire, not the same feedback most are accustomed to.
2. The engine is too quiet and smooth to hear and feel it, thus you don't get the feedback as to what rpm's the engine is currently at.
3. The aforementioned clutch release valve may reduce driveline shock, but it adds some unpredictability IMO and again less reduced feedback. Others may not agree. I am considering changing the valve to see what difference it makes.
4. Clutch overall is flat feeling, nothing like other cars. BMW may have spent thousands researching a designing the clutch, but I am not impressed with it. I like the feedback you get from the clutch pedal that let's you know it is engaging.
Overall, I think minimal feedback from the car when shifting is the core issue with those of us who complain the ZHP (or others) are difficult to shift smoothly.
I'll get over it, and it's not like I don't like the car. I love it!
I am also a very picky person about autos and anything engineered. A critic if you will. Put me in a Bentley or even the Enzo and I will find something I don't like, but I will definitely get out of the car with a big ass grin on my face!
Member
Boyd, I agree the car is a little to quiet and a little too numb in the feedback dept. I truly dislike the drive-by-wire implementation in the 330 too... I wish we got the Sport button like on the Z4.
Not sure I agree about the CDV, since I'm bone stock and have no reason to change anything yet, except maybe an intake to improve the noise.
All I can suggest is that you just let it rev to 4k. It can't hurt it much unless you are WOT all the time; BMWs love to rev. Good luck.
Retired Moderator
yeah, like Late, I don't have any real problems. I had a 2001 Z3 3.0, also throttle by wire, before this, and then before that Mustangs and Camaros... but I've been driving sticks since 1985, so I adjusted in no time...
Member
I totally agree. It's been one month and about 1500 miles since I bought my CDV-contaminated 328 and I still cannot get a smooth, slow start or shift from 1 to 2. After learning about the cursed CDV, I understood my problems. It's been my plan to take that thing out as soon as I get the chance. I've been driving manual trannys for 20 years and I've never had this much trouble getting used to a clutch. I believe that, in the absence of engine noise (which I love about the BMW), tactile clutch feedback is the only thing you have to make the smooth transitions.
I have found that my smoothest shifts are when I rev it up high and shift firmly and release quickly. If you understand the action of the CDV, it makes sense that you could practically pop the clutch in a quick shift and the CDV would slow the engagement to the point that the shift would actually seem normal.
Any comments on double-clutching with a CDV? I have tried it on various occasions but since I'm still getting used to the whole package I will wait before I use it regularly. I suspect the CDV will also foul up effective double clutch strokes.
Member
I have to agree with you here. I used to heel-n-toe double clutch downshift just for fun in the E36. Smooth as silk. Pointless, but satisfying.
But the 330 is much trickier to do. I can still do it, but I have to pay a lot more attention. Here is one area where I could possibly shift blame to the CDV. But I also blame how long the car will hold revs. Ever sit at a light and just blip the throttle? It just hangs there like its got a 1,000 lb flywheel attached to it.
As my familiarity with the car grows and I start to expect more from it, maybe my dislike of the CDV and drive-by-wire will grow as well. For day to day operation, it seems fine. For a goofing around on a back road, it seems fine too. Maybe when I finally get the car on a track or auto-x, I'll realise CDV needs to go.
Well listen to me to bitch. You guys have got me complaining about an otherwise great car.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks