Need advice on engine possiblities

[oldskool3]

Hey guys I need some advice on how to get some more power out of the M10, or should I swap for something like a m20 from a e30 or i was think even m30 but i dont want to be to nose heavy. Just wondering if you guys had any experiences with m20 or even m30 or can suggest anything for M10 and could offer any advice thanks a lot.

[uberpanzer]

Tons of guys on here like turbo's on the M10. Usually they find ways to do it cheaper than a swap. And you don't have to worry about what will fit with the radiator you currently have, tranny options, etc. Just a thought....

[MattE21]

s50 ..... sss....50.....

[blitzed310]

If you want the M10 you can build it to a rather nice beast. If you wanna do an economical swap the M20b23 would be an easy deal, even a M20b25 would be fairly easy but with a little more electrial involved. Go poco-loco-en-la-coco and you can go big on swaps, its all been done many times before, M50, S50, M30, M102, M44, M42, even an S52. An M42 would be sweet, and its not that involved as others. Drop the pennys and you can turbo the M10 for a ride you will not regret, if you get a ride in one, try not to catch the boost fever .








Build the M10

[TheNeek]

See resent post by me. I'm sort of doing this sort of thing. But it's more a musical engines kind of thing.

[oldskool3]

thanks for the help guys for some reason i am stuck on doing the M20b25. My cousin recently swapped a m30 into his e30 so im sure he could help me with and electrical work needed to complete the swap. Eventually after some more $$$ i would like to turbo the m20 but that is in the distant future.

Although i really like the weight of the light 4 but im worried that after all that work i wont be satisfied. I dont know what to do. Or where to start if i were to decide to start work on the M10. im completly lost.

[blitzed310]

Although i really like the weight of the light 4 but im worried that after all that work i wont be satisfied. I dont know what to do. Or where to start if i were to decide to start work on the M10. im completly lost.

Come on dude its like any other motor, figure out how much $$$ you got to spend on it. And go from there, for $2500 you can have the motor work done and buy all the components you need. Oversized forged pistons new bearings, balanced/polished(Nic) rods and crank, total seal rings, any cam duration you want, double valve springs, adjustable timing gear, new valves/retainers, rocker essentrics, headers, full exhaust, blah blah blah.

Ask and thow shall recieve

[oldskool3]

I never thought I would be able to get even one of those parts for 2500. I would definetly stick with the M10 if I could find all those parts for that cheap in Canada. Have even more $$$ than that lying around from the last car that i sold.

I have about 3600usd lying around to work with if anyone has the time and patience would anybody mind telling me which manufacturers make the best quality parts and which I should buy first with my budget. Would probably eventually like to turbo my car the M10 but im young and dont know much about engine internals and what is needed to make a reliable setup for turboing my car. I would really appreciate the help and thanks for all the previous advice Blitzed310.

[jjgbmw323]

Save up a little more an ante up for a metric mechanic late model 325i 1990 2.9 liter stroker.

Or get a 1990 or so 325i engine, get a 524 td crank, have nick polish the rods,
bore it out with special pistons, and wave bye bye to mustangs and e36 m3s.

I am building really a stage II Metric mechanic 2.8 liter stroker engine.

Later,

Joe

[TheNeek]

Save up a little more an ante up for a metric mechanic late model 325i 1990 2.9 liter stroker.

Or get a 1990 or so 325i engine, get a 524 td crank, have nick polish the rods,
bore it out with special pistons, and wave bye bye to mustangs and e36 m3s.

I am building really a stage II Metric mechanic 2.8 liter stroker engine.

Later,

Joe

Seems like he's a little more intersted in a turbo there Joe. Sounds like he has a big decision to make along the lines of weither he wants NA power or force inducted. We can't make that for him really.

[oldskool3]

[QUOTE=jjgbmw323]

Save up a little more an ante up for a metric mechanic late model 325i 1990 2.9 liter stroker.

Or get a 1990 or so 325i engine, get a 524 td crank, have nick polish the rods,
bore it out with special pistons, and wave bye bye to mustangs and e36 m3s.

I am building really a stage II Metric mechanic 2.8 liter stroker engine.

Later,

Joe

I thought i wanted a turbo setup but if what jjgbmw323 said is true then maybe i have some more thinking about going the route of NA. I dont know anymore but thanks for the help every suggestion helps.

[oldskool3]

Joe any idea how much this would cost if i could pick up an engine? thanks

[uberpanzer]

OK, the engine Joe is speaking of also needs a new tranny to go into your car. Not totally out of the question, but you have to spend a little bit more to do it. You can use your tranny in there now with a turbo M10 (since it is YOUR motor), but you might have to upgrade the clutch (Atilla aka ME21 will inform of this). A well built turbo M10 would ~probably~ blow the doors off of the 2.9L M20 NA that Joe is talking about. I've been in Atilla's car, and Jonas' 323i running a M20B25 from an e30. The M10 was MUCH quicker. Granted it was down a bit on displacement from the 2.9L, but I don't think the extra .4L would make up the difference. And the M10 should be built for cheaper.

[jjgbmw323]

Yea, you need the 89 or 90 325i engine and tranny to start. But there is a big difference in cost and performance between a stock 2.5 liter and the metric mechanic 2.8/2.9 liter, and if you use the e36 crank you can have over a 3.0 liter 230hp m20. At Metric Mechanic they build this engine as well.

Bascially I found a 524td and I took the block home took out the crank, and had the crank ballanced and knife edged.

$600 crank work
T
hen the forged pistons are metric mechanic, they are special ones that have reliefs in them so that is the timing belt ever goes, the head does not warp.

$800 for the MM forged I" pistons

Now i am getting the stock 325i rods polished..extra set

$600 or so from Nick.

Bore out, install pistons and ballance the 2.5 liter to 2.8 liters
$2k - estimate (tyler paid 3k for this and I have his engine now)


Head work - have not done it yet probabaly bigger plus 1 valves.
Port and Polish
$1500 for metric Mechanic head

Shrick 288 cam.
$400

Lightened 325i flywheel
$150

524 oil pump
$100

So the cost will be around 5k or so besides getting the donor engine.
Metric Mechanic's engines are about the same, cost wise, but dont have the high reving forged 524td crank, or the shrick 288 cam.

Now compared to Jonas's engine which is like the regular 2.5 liter m20 out of the 325i there is a big difference. Tyler raced had the lower end of my stroker on limerock and used to chase down the porsche 928 there.
Yer bugger, his white 79 323i was fast as all heck.
Jonas claims e36 m3s are beat by his car becasue it so light, and thats why the stock 323i is quick. These cars have a nice power to weight ratio..

Now If you already have the m10, and are wondering if you should turbo it or buy a stroker you will need the subframe for the m20 as well. For the cost of buying the metric mechanic stroker, and tranny Personally I would do the m10 turbo. I am using my dogleg tranny with my stroker.

By the way I am not sure how fast Atilia's car is. I know its real nice from what everyone says, but I am stuck here in Boston and never get out that way with my car or myself. Maybe once my engine is in and my car finished I will take some time off and drive out to california, some year for the show. I have never been to California or Nevada.

Thanks Joe

[TheNeek]

Funny how as this thread progresses the amount of money invested for each idea seems to be increasing steadily. Realize Ol'Skool that unless you buy a crate motor (metric mechanic), building an engine will take time. So if you have a source of income the cost can be offset by incoming paychecks. I mean I've been waiting for almost 2 months for my damn pistons. I've paid for them and recouped the cost before they even thought about showing up at the machine shop.

[blitzed310]

Did mine in 10 months, plenty of time to stack up that money

I luv the M10 I'm too biased, keep that bad boy and build the shit out of it, NA or FI

[uberpanzer]

Joe, thanks for the details. That is going to be a MONSTER!!! I know of some people in the e30 world running 3.0L strokers and they are putting out something in the 220-240hp range. That amount of power in an e21 would be pretty wicked.

Oh and for the record, Jonas' M20B25 isn't exactly stock. But I'll refrain from spilling the beans about what I know about it, in case he is trying to keep things quiet again.

CJ - as much as I am a fan of strong, light, NA motors, the M10 can get pricey real quick when you're trying to get more NA power out of it. If you have hook-ups on some parts (like, say, from a dead e30 M3), it makes thing cheaper if you want to go big (2.1L stroker from a 1.8L). But even with that, there are things that MUST be bought, like pistons, some rods, and machining. FI can be done for less money, with more gains.

And besides, you get the cool BOV sound that Atilla has! (I think I'm becoming a ricer...)

[jjgbmw323]

He told me that the lower end is a 2.5 liter and his has a more radical cam like a 282 or so. But my point was, a Metric Mechanic 2.9 liter is a lot faster,
and more expensive.

Also I forget to say that dropping an m20 into the e21 320i also has considerable wiring issues. My friends day but the 325i engine in and took the car to scheller BMW turner and paind 1600 to wire it.

I think you are better off finding a 323i and moding it, or putting an m42 in the 320 or a turbo on the m10i, then the 2.9 liter, Theres too many costs.

Joe

[uberpanzer]

I think you are better off finding a 323i and moding it, or putting an m42 in the 320 or a turbo on the m10i, then the 2.9 liter, Theres too many costs.

Joe

Not TRYING to rub it in, but that too was what I was trying to say. Granted at first I WAS doubting the power of a M20 in an e21, but I also did not know the extent to which your's (in particular) is modded. That is NOT easy to accomplish on a $3600 budget. Assuming he wants to keep THAT car, a turbo M10 would be within reason. The M42 swap would be a bit harder, again due to some wiring issues. Same with most swaps into the e21. Nobody REALLY has any harnesses custom made for these cars for other motors, other than the factory 323i-320/6 harness.

Anyway, do some advanced searches on here in the e21 forum on turbo costs, or maybe on Tricord's site. There is tons of info from the guys that have done it. They've tried to impart as much to us as we can take.....

[oldskool3]

thanks a lot for all the info guys i think im gonna stck with the M10 and do a turbo setup. I was planning on swapping an engine in my last car and it never happened so i think ill stick to the M10.

Now my next problem is I dont know much about engines so any help any one is willing to offer up on anything ill be needing for a turbo setup would be greatly appreciated. I would also like to do some internal mods so any help on that to would be great.

Also the $3600 is not my final budget i am only going to school part time and working the rest so i will definetly be making more $$ over the winter. So any suggestions would definetly help. I am also gonna pick up ground controls and either koni adjustables or bilsteins by the summer. Can anyone think of anything that they can recommend that they have had a good experience with?

Thanks again for all your help. This forums is awesome and definetly one of the reasons i felt confident enough to buy an e21. I really appreciate all your help. thanks again.

[umeric]

Any ideas where to get a turbo kit in Australia for a m20 engine?
Or even online links....

-
Ash.