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Thread: Interesting Reading about BMW OIL facts long

  1. #1
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    Arrow Interesting Reading about BMW OIL facts long

    Car Some Accurate Oil Information for You

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have been crusing through this site and noticed there is a lot of misinformation and confusion about oil. Here are a few things you should know about oil for BMW's:

    1) All new BMW's require synthetic. As far as weight, only certain production dates of M3's and M5's require the use of Castrol TWS 10w-60.

    2) The Factory BMW Synth 5w-30 is a version of Castrol TXT Softect sold overseas. A few important things about the BMW oil a) it is a Group III hydrocracked oil which cannot be called synthetic in Europe, b) it is a heavy 30 weight (30 weight can run from 9.3-12.5cst@100c, the BMW oil is about 12.2cst), c) it is a ACEA A3 oil which means that it is approved for longer change intervals and has a HTHS (High Tempurature High Shear) measured at 150c of greater than 3.5.

    3) In the US, the only Group IV PAO Synthetics that are available are 1) Mobil 1, 2) Amsoil (but not the Xl-7500), 3) Royal Purple, and 4) German Castrol 0w-30 (it has the red label and says on the back, "Made in Germany). Redline is a Group V PolyEster based oil. All other Castrol, Quaker State, Pennzoil, Valvoline "synthetics" are a Group III hydrocracked oil. It is debated how much better Group IV base oils are than group III, but generally they are considered better.

    4) When looking for oil for any BMW that does not require Castrol TWS 10w-60, you want to purchase an oil that has either/both of the following ratings, a) ACEA A3, or b) BMW LL-98 or LL-01.

    5) Note that Mobil 1 0w-30, 5w-30, and 10w-30 are NOT ACEA A3 or BMW LL approved oils. This is because they all are thin 30 weight oils (approximately 9.8-10 CST@ 100c) and have HTHS of approximately 3.1. Mobil 1 0w-40 and 15w-50 are A3 rated and the Ow-40 is BMW LL-01 approved. For 99% of climates and users 0w-40 or 5w-40 is the appropriate grade. There are some 0w-30 and 5w-30 oils (like the BMW 5w-30) that are forumlated on the heavier end of the 30 weight scale and are accordingly rated A3. These oils will work well also. LOOK FOR THAT ACEA A3 rating. If the oil doesn't have it, pass on it.

    6) Some people seem confused about how oil thickness is measured. The first number (0W, 5w, 10w, 15w, etc) is a measurement of how thick the oil is at tempuratures of -35c- -20c (depends on the grade). The lower this first number the thinner the oil is at LOW tempuratures. The second number (30, 40, 50) refers to oil thickness at 100c (operating tempurature). 30 weight can be from 9.3-12.5 cst, 40 weight from 12.6-16.2 cst, 50 weight from 16.3-22cst (approximate). So you can have two oils, one called a 5w-30 (i.e. bmw oil) another 0w-40 (Mobil 1) that are very similar thicknesses at operating tempurature. Compare this to Mobil 1 Xw-30 which is close to a 20 weight oil at 100c. For more information here is a link with exact numbers http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html

    7) BMW's recommended interval of 12,000-15,000 miles is to long. Used oil analysis has shown the BMW oil is generally depleted at 10,000 miles. Running it longer results in excess wear. It is highly recommended that you change your oil once between each BMW recommended interval (approx 7000-7500 miles). If you want to run your oil the BMW recommended interval, I would suggest that you use Mobil 1 0w-40 or Amsoil 5w-40 and change the oil filter at 7500 miles. I would encourage a full oil change at 7500 if you want your engine to last.

    8) If you want to spend a few hours learning about oil, go to bobistheoilguy.com

    Cary
    -------------------
    but its like a different language.... so which one do you suggest if you were going to change your oil?


    Unless you have an M3, in the following order:

    1) Mobil 1 0w-40,
    2) Mobil 1 0w-40, and
    3) Mobil 1 0w-40

    If you can't find the 0w-40, the Mobil 1 SUV 5w-40 is a great oil. Can't find either of these, then go to your dealer and get the BMW 5w-30.

    The Mobil 1 0w-40 is a great oil, widely available (Walmart, Checker, Kragen, Autozone), and moderately priced. It is factory fill in Mercedes AMG, Porsche, and Austin Martin.

    Cary

    -------------

    Curious as to why you reccomend Amsoil 5w-40 over 5w-30?
    --------------
    great post i used to run mobil 1 0w-40, but recently changed to redline 5w-30. does redline being group 5 mean it's "better"? are you recommending mobil 1 0w-40 over redline?
    -----------------
    great post i used to run mobil 1 0w-40, but recently changed to redline 5w-30. does redline being group 5 mean it's "better"? are you recommending mobil 1 0w-40 over redline?
    ------------------


    Group V does not necessarly mean better. Redline tends to run heavy for its grade so 5w-30 is a fine grade. Note that Redline is NOT API rated so potentially if you have an oil related failure BMW could deny your warrantee. Personally, I think that Redline is a great oil and if you like it would stick with it. I continue to use the Mobil 1 because 1) it is more widely available, and 2) it is cheaper at $4.75 quart v. Redline at $6.25 quart locally.

    ---------------

    I think Castrol TWS 10w-60 is made in Germany, this means it is group IV??
    Thanks for the great info!

    ----------------
    Is the Mobil 1 0w-40 good for the occasional autocross or track day, especially in the warmer summer months?
    ----------------
    yeah so basically, use the m1 0w-40 like me
    ------------

    So is BMWs own recommendation of Castrol Synthetic oil rubbish?

    In reference to the Above Comments:

    1) The TWS 10w-60 is a very specific oil and likely a Group IV/V blend. The reason that BMW specifically recommends and imports it is there is no equivilant oil in the US. In Europe, Shell & a few others make an equivilant 10w-60.

    2) For Autocrossing and Lapping on Hot Days. For autocrossing, the 0w-40 is fine as you do not see high sustained oil temps. For lapping days, you may want to consider 15w-50 as you will high sustained oil temps.

    3) The BMW 5w-30 Synthetic. This is a good oil at a fair price ($4.00). Mobil 1 0w-40 is a better oil, especially for longer change intervals. The problem is the combo of the BMW oil and 15,000 mile oil changes is not a good one.

    4) A note concerning Mobil 1 5w-40 SUV oil. I know that somebody is going to go to buy this and say "hey it doesn't say ACEA A3 on the back." They are correct. The 5w-40 oil repackaged Mobil Delvac 1, a Synthetic Heavy Duty Engine oil originally designed for trucks and fleet vehicles. This oil is slightly heavier than the 0w-40 and has an HTHS of 4.1. It meets ACEA E3,4 & 5 which are diesal requirements but still require an HTHS of greater than 3.5.

    -----------------
    I have been crusing through this site and noticed there is a lot of misinformation and confusion about oil. Here are a few things you should know about oil for BMW's:

    1)As far as weight, only certain production dates of M3's and M5's require the use of Castrol TWS 10w-60.

    Cary

    What do you mean by that? All E39/E46 M3/M5 requires 10w-60. Perhaps you might want to change that to read "All E46/E39 M3/M5 require the use of Castrol TWS 10w-60."
    ----------------
    I'm using redline right now, I might drop by the benz dealer and start buying the mobil 1 0w-40 to save some money.

    ---------

    A lil off topic, but whats a good tranny fluid to use, and change interval?
    --------------
    What do you mean by that? All E39/E46 M3/M5 requires 10w-60. Perhaps you might want to change that to read "All E46/E39 M3/M5 require the use of Castrol TWS 10w-60."


    I was looking at an old bulliten concerning the E46 M3 that had dates. It looks like from what I see that all E46 M3's spec 10w-60 and e39 M5's use 10w-60 for engines before 3/00 and 5w-30 for engines after that date. That information may be innacurate though.

    cary1
    -----------------

    Cary, so much info. You rock man.
    I feel like I'm back in college, but it's all soaking in. . Are you a bio-chemist specializing in pertroleum or something? Thanks again man. You can never have enough information/facts about cars.....at least on this board.

    ----------------
    A lil off topic, but whats a good tranny fluid to use, and change interval?


    I personally like Redline Tranny Fluids for both manual and automatic transmissions. Which fluid you use depends on what your transmission originally required. If you e-mail redline they will tell you what they recommend. Generally a 30,000 mile change interval is what I find best.

    IMPORTANT CAVEAT: BMW Automatic transmissions use so many different types of fluid it is hard to keep straight. Be very careful what you use and follow the manufacture guidlines. I know the ZF trannies use special shellor Texaco fluids that cannot be substituted with normal ATF fluids. Here is a link to a chart with the different fluid requirements.
    Last edited by frayed; 10-16-2004 at 10:48 AM. Reason: Cleaned up original post
    99' 04 Estoril\Blk ///M3 Cc #6---------------------------X
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  2. #2
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    good to know!

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    man my eyes are hurting now . ya i ran mobil 0w-30 and its just too thin, pours like water, i didn't realize it wasn't significant so i will do mobil 0w-40 this time around, 0w-40 should help quiet the lifter tick more (though i hear 50 eliminates it almost completely).

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    Nice copy and paste from an E46fanatics thread

    So is there any difference at operating temperature between an 0w40 and an 10w60 oil?

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    OK, so I've been using Mobil 5w30 non-synth oil. For non-synthetic oil what weight is recommended for BMW's? I didn't get the answer form the above thread.

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    Hmm I've been using Mobil 1 5w30 syn...doesn't seem to be a problem...but I haven't had the car long enough to know.

    -Brian-
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    I've been using the Mobil1 0W-40 or BMW 5W-30 Synthetic as far as I can remember.
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  8. #8
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    Now are you guys talking about syn 0-40...if so i'll give it a try on my next oil change.

    -Brian-
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    MWhip - The Mobil1 0W-40 Synthetic is the stuff. It also says "European Car Formula" on the bottle.
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    I think I'll give 0W-40 a try.

  12. #12
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    Moon

    So for our E36 M3's is it better to use the Mobil 1 5w-40 or the 0w-40 ?

    If we buy from Kragen or Wallmart, we had better be sure that it meets or exceeds:

    1. ACEA E3,4 & 5
    2. HTHS of 3.5

    It worries me that--->The info I need to see to purchase this oil instead of the BMW oil is,

    "A note concerning Mobil 1 5w-40 SUV oil. I know that somebody is going to go to buy this and say "hey it doesn't say ACEA A3 on the back." They are correct. The 5w-40 oil repackaged Mobil Delvac 1, a Synthetic Heavy Duty Engine oil originally designed for trucks and fleet vehicles. This oil is slightly heavier than the 0w-40 and has an HTHS of 4.1. It meets ACEA E3,4 & 5 which are diesal requirements but still require an HTHS of greater than 3.5"


    Catch my drift?
    99' 04 Estoril\Blk ///M3 Cc #6---------------------------X
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    : Do Not Enter---------------------->---------------------------X

  13. #13
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    Oh man.. I had been using Amsoil 10w-40 for a couple of years. I still have a small supply left, so, I just bought a case of Mobil1 10W-30.

    NEITHER of these has the ACEA A3, or b) BMW LL-98 or LL-01 rating. The 5w-30 I used to get at the bmw dealer Does have the rating as is pointed out, But, stuff I had read prior to this, indicated to me that Both my Mobil1 And my Amsoil were superior oils. Even your point 3 above indicates this: "In the US, the only Group IV PAO Synthetics that are available are 1) Mobil 1, 2) Amsoil (but not the Xl-7500". Group 4 being thought to be superior to Group 3, I thought I had it nailed. "Group IV base oils are than group III, but generally they are considered better."

    Now, for the first time, I read that if it doesnt have the ACEA A3 rating, pass it by! Ive experimented with oil change intervals, changing Either at the half oil light cycle, or, changing the Filter at the half cycle, and the complete oil change after one full cycle, or, at the 1 yr point, whichever occurs first. Prior research had shown me that, so long as youre using a Full synthetic oil like either my Amsoil or my Mobil1, doing the filter at half light cycle and the oil at the full light cycle will deliver plenty of protection, given that the oil light cycle was designed for regular Dinosaur juice. Even if that was pushing it, I read that surely a full synthetic would cover it with plenty of room to spare.

    Now what.. send back my unused Amsoil, and schlep my 2 unused cases of Mobil1 back to the store, and exchange for the Mobil1 0W-40? I dont know what it costs now, but not too long ago, the BMW 5W-30 could be bought for somewhere under $4, making it priced better than most of the Mobil1 and Amsoil oils Ive seen. Had it not been a Group III base oil, I probably would have never changed from using it. Now, we see that its NOT the Group III vs IV that is important, but, rather, its the ACEA A3 rating we need to look for!!

    >>A few important things about the BMW oil a) it is a Group III hydrocracked oil which cannot be called synthetic in Europe, b) it is a heavy 30 weight (30 weight can run from 9.3-12.5cst@100c, the BMW oil is about 12.2cst), c) it is a ACEA A3 oil which means that it is approved for longer change intervals and has a HTHS (High Tempurature High Shear) measured at 150c of greater than 3.5.<<

    So, is it more Important that your oil have the ACEA A3 rating like the BMW synthetic 5W-30, or that it be have a true Group IV base oil, like the BMW synthetic 5W-30 doesnt?
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    Interesting read...I just tried Mobil 1 Syn 10w-30...I guess I'll go back to BMW oil then...
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    Just wondering how much oil should be added during an oil change. I've got a 97 M3 and I've heard anywhere from 6.3 quarts to 7.5. I've heard a lot of people saying 7 quarts, but I want to be sure that it's OK. I don't track the car or anything. It's just my daily driver. Thanks for the help.

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    Lubromoly Vollsynthese ("fully synthetic") 5w-40 is Group IV and also API SH / EC / CF, API SJ / CF; ACEA A3-98/B3-98; BMW Longlife-98, MB 229.1, Porsche, VW 502.00, 505.00 (1/97). [Liqui-moly website: http://www.liqui-moly.de/web/lmhomee...index_produkte]

    And made in Germany.
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  17. #17
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    i've tried pretty much every oil out there, nothing even comes close to Lubro Moly synthetic 5w40.. every oil burned at least a quart or more every 3k, now with lubro moly i barely burn a quarter of a quart every 4-5k.. there are so many debates and arguements about oil, bottom line is synthetic is better and in a normal weather conditions 0-10w - 30-50 is ok to use, 5w40 is right in between.. as far as name brand goes the best way is to try them and see which one works the best for your car and your driving habits.. i don't think that there is any oil in that range today that will hurt your car in any way..

  18. #18
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    buthski, a lot of people barely overfill so that they avoid oil starvation under extreme circumstances (track use)

  19. #19
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    Soo Now that I'm edgamucated on oils, What about that Lucas stuff for your engine, I hear a lot of things about it. I DON,T USE IT!! I'm just asking about it.

  20. #20
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    The owner's manual list it as 6.9Quarts. Overfilling a bit should be no problem. Loud lifters like thick oil but loud vanos like thin oil.

    So the only 30 weight oil that is approved is BMW oil since it has 12.2cST at 100 degrees. It really should be called 5W35 to avoid the confusion. I checked on redline 5W30, it only has 10.9cSt. I think the article is saying that high temp high shear HTHS is more important than what group base stock. Redline is releasing a new 5W40 (euro formula) soon that has over 14cST.
    <font size="1">97 M3 coupe dakar yellow/ alcantara
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    92 325i estoril blue M3 look
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  21. #21
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    whatever is there
    lubro moly 5-40 shits on all other oils. its the best stuff

  22. #22
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    I would stay away from any oil additives, inclusing Lucas.

    Have anyone here tried higher end LubroMoly 0W40 or 10W60? I am searching to find out what group base stock is lubro made of.
    <font size="1">97 M3 coupe dakar yellow/ alcantara
    UUC TME, UUC Comp Evo SSK w/ delrin carrier bushing & cartridge bearing, BBS RX 18", H&R coilover, euro clears, AC roof spoiler, RD sway bars, RD strut bar, X-brace, Ground control street stability kit (rear trailing arm bushing enforcer), e46 M3 RSM, Z3 reinforcement plate, Hamann kidney grille cover, OEM trunk spoiler, Schrick intake manifold, fan delete mod, underdrive crank pulley, debaffled & euro snorkel and K&N drop-in, UUC system-U DTM exhaust, glove box motorsport carbon fiber trim, AC pedals and knob, 35% tint, Zimmermann cross-drilled, EBC Greens.

    92 325i estoril blue M3 look
    Motorsport International badge M3 door mouldings, 97+ kidney grill, AA chip, fan delete mod, debaflled & euro snorkel and K&N drop-in, RD exhaust, RD trunkspoiler, AC roof spoiler, Euro M-Technic steering wheel, Rob magnum knob, strut bar, Eibach pro-kit, fr Bilstein sport, rr Koni SA, sport pack sway bar, X-brace, 97 M3 spec front control arm bushing & RTAB, updated front strut bearings and mount to newer style, short shift and UUC delrin carrier bushings, UUC pedals, UUC clutch arm bushing, Stillen slotted rotors, KVR brake pads, M Doublespoke II, euro clears, AC aluminum pin strip decal, 35% tint.</font>

  23. #23
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    its so hard to find anything on lubro moly or even a place that sells it.. but the oil proves itself, no need to verify..

  24. #24
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    Is Amsoil series 2000 0W-30 carry the ACEA A3 rating ?

  25. #25
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    The owner's manual of my Wife's 2004 525i, lists Mobil 1 5W-30 as an "approved oil".
    like2short
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