540i - flooding after timing guide job

[JimLev]

The angles don't look too bad here. When I rev the engine they go to maybe -4 but never higher (well, lower since it negative).

Attachment 724398

They are - because the DME has shut both of them down due to the FC34 for bank 2.
Didn’t I mention secondary air pipe 2 weeks ago?

More info…..
BMW 33/34 codes cover a wide swath. Each code corresponds to three OBDii codes.
P0011 and P0021 means the cam is too advanced or too retarded while the vanos is off. You must have the adaption number to tell which way it is off. If the number is positive, you are retarded and need to turn clockwise. If the numbers are negative, you are advanced and need to turn counter clockwise.
In practice, it has been found that most times the codes are caused by being retarded. Do not focus on the word advanced.

[pyite69]

you are retarded

I know, no need to rub it in


Are these the adaptations you mean, from analog 2? It looks like it hasn't adapted at all yet - adds are 0 and multiplies are 1.


540i_adaptations_20240412.png

[pyite69]

Murphy was an optimist.

Bank 2 intake just lost time again after 100 miles or so. It was running perfectly apart from the reduced low rpm power, but now it is misfiring on the bank 2 cylinders with a terrible idle again. This also happened the previous time, on Monday. The other 3 cams have never had this happen.

On one of the first re-times I definitely didn't tighten things enough and the bank 2 vanos bolt and sprocket were completely loose on bank 2 for a bit. I wonder if the vanos bolt and/or camshaft sprocket bolt have some damage on the threads now. Is this possible?

I'm thinking that I should grab the E5-8 camshaft with the wheel, bolts, and vanos attachment at the junkyard just in case. It's only like $50 and I already took off the valve cover and some cam bearings so it will be easy to remove.

Is there anything else I should check that could cause the big bolt to come loose? I will definitely be extra careful about cleaning as much oil as possible off the threads and between all of the surfaces this time.

[jicaino]

Wow, I'm amazed you're still with this. I'd have thrown the towel long ago.

At this point your "economy" of resources makes less sense each time. Grab a new iwis chain, disassemble everything, remove the radiator, the intake manifold, everything out of the way so you can work comfortably and actually see and observe things.
Remove and retrace all your steps like as if you started fresh. Clean, measure, inspect, read, and don't skimp on one or two items like chains, questionable hardware and such. The only reason I can see for the sprocket coming loose is as I've already told you, something off with the sprockets, or too much chain slap. Perhaps chain keeps stretching the more you tension it.
Remember to assemble the guides in this way: u guide first, fixed side (the one that has the OSV behind) second, then the actual tensioner/guide.
Then, when timing, set bank 2 first and pull the slack towards slthe passenger side.

[JimLev]

If that cam bolt came loose the valves could have hit the pistons.

[pyite69]

If that cam bolt came loose the valves could have hit the pistons.

I think you're on to something here. Almost all of the problems I have had could be explained by something adding resistance to the E5-8 camshaft, eventually causing it to lose time.

The last two times, the cam sprocket was still perfectly aligned with the timing chain, but the cam itself was about 45 degrees behind where it was when I buttoned everything up. The last time it took about 100 miles for this to happen.

Wow, I'm amazed you're still with this. I'd have thrown the towel long ago.

Hehe, it's kind of masochistic at this point isn't it. I want the satisfaction of figuring everything out before diving into the S62.

Grab a new chain, disassemble everything, remove the radiator ...

I can appreciate this approach, but I don't see how it can help me at this point. Every time I've done the timing, the A1-4, E1-4, and A5-8 cams have been perfect and when I took the valve covers off next time they exactly where they were when I put everything back together. Not the case with E5-8.

It's to the point where I don't bother with the TDC pin anymore - if the A5-8 cam lock goes on then I am 100% positive that it is at TDC.

It looks like something is wrong with the E5-8 cam or something closely related like either the bolt not holding it well enough or a valve or cam bearing causing just enough drag to unscrew the bolt eventually.

At the junkyard today I got a cam with the vanos, sprocket, and solenoid for $40. I used the junkyard bolts & sprocket this time and torqued it an extra 10 ft lbs because why the hell not at this point.

If this happens again I'm swapping the E5-8 cam and I'll check the intake valves while it's off.

Is there anything else that only affects the E5-8 cam like this? I would expect the other things mentioned above to affect more than just this cam, but that's just a guess.

Thanks again for all the help,
Mark

[jicaino]

The reason behind my recommendation is this: when you perform a certain task with stuff in the way you have less precision, less field of view, and risk either not performing as you would in a better situation, and or breaking/twisting/mangling the stuff that's in the way. Whenever I fail repeatedly at any given task, I stop, go back to ground zero and un-cut every corner I cut

[JimLev]

I’d check the compression just to make sure the valves didn’t get bent.

[jicaino]

I’d check the compression just to make sure the valves didn’t get bent.

I Thought you suggested this and it was already checked, but given the repeated mistime and un-time I agree it's a necessity

[pyite69]

I’d check the compression just to make sure the valves didn’t get bent.

OK thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it a try. It is running well now apart from the vanos being disabled. Very quiet, no misfires, solid idle.

I have a follow-up from an earlier post about vanos adjustments:

You must have the adaption number

Is this available in INPA? I found the add & multiply adaptations but they were still at the defaults (0 & 1).

Thanks,
Mark

[pyite69]

OK a new clue. I was playing around and reset adaptations in INPA and then went inside for awhile.

When I tried to start the car, it went into the worst failsafe mode - stuck at 1200 rpm or so, and threw these extra codes (Peake, sorry, working on it):

86 - Drive-by-wire throttle controller, lower adaptation (0x86 == 134)
88 - Drive-by-wire throttle, emergency air position test (0x88 == 136, also known as "Test Emergency Air Position")

After resetting the CE light with the Peake, it started and ran just fine with only my old friend the vanos 22 code (0x22 == 34).

Google says that this is not unexpected if you don't do the 30 seconds @ position 2 procedure after clearing the adaptations, which I didn't, so maybe not all that useful.

[pyite69]

I made it about 250 miles since the last re-time. No slipping so far. Above about 3000 rpm it feels just like it did before, so it is great on the freeway.

If I can make it 500 miles, I'll try to get vanos working again. Still not sure which adaptation value to consider if I want to rotate the sprocket a little.

[pyite69]

OK just to get some closure here - our best guess is that the ultimate cause of the time slipping so easily was a bad crankshaft pulley hub. The pulley wobbled just a little bit.

Unfortunately, I poked the bear one time too many and bent a valve or something last time around, maybe worse. So it's extra incentive to get the S62 cleaned up and installed.

Thanks for the help!