Alternator crooked and am I missing a second (accessory) belt?

[skaspektor]

I just noticed that the bushing is almost gone and the alternator is sitting on an angle to the belt and the fan.
Since I have no reference to how to install a new one (https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...gn-12311268447) can someone help me figure out how it installs? My other question is - is there a second belt? There are two empty 'spindles' and I am not sure if there should be a belt there. Maybe the question is kind of stupid - but I cant find an illustration or a photo of an 1980 e21 with belts installed. Thanks a bunch! J IMG_3299.jpgIMG_3298.jpg

[YoungSensei]

Bro is your belt inside out or am I tripping xD

[Ceaston85]

On your first question: remove the fan, release the tension on the alternator bracket and bolt, swivel the alternator, remove the belt, remove the alternator bolts and done. Honestly, YouTube any e21 or e30 timing belt job and one of the first steps will be to remove the alternator and such.

On your second question, the other belt(s) would be for your power steering and AC compressor which I’m assuming u don’t have. My car doesn’t have AC or power steering and I run one accessory belt just like yours.

Good luck.


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[Ceaston85]

Bro is your belt inside out or am I tripping xD

Lol I wondered about the same. Looks like it’s backwards and it has no teeth? Weird.


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[YoungSensei]

Lol I wondered about the same. Looks like it’s backwards and it has no teeth? Weird.


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Definitely inside out, those grooves are supposed to face towards the pulley, not away from them. I only have 1 belt as well on my 320i, which lacks both power steering and AC.

Personally I find it difficult to remove the 4 fan bolts with the radiator in place. You should be able to to reach that adjust bolt for the belt tensioner fine even with fan there. I even managed to hit it with my 90 degree impact (pictured below), which is a pretty bulky tool, although I do think I had to find the one gap in the fan blades that was bigger than the rest to fit the tool.
milwauke90degreeimpact.png

[DavidF]

No, the belt has not rolled over. Many belts have the "cogs" on the top/outside as this one does. If the belt had rolled over, the cogs would be more pointy or triangular shaped.

[YoungSensei]

No, the belt has not rolled over. Many belts have the "cogs" on the top/outside as this one does. If the belt had rolled over, the cogs would be more pointy or triangular shaped.

Gonna have to disagree with you on this one. That belt is 100% rolled over. And probably over stretched and out of shape now as a result of being ran that way. This could probably be contributing to the alternator bushing wear. Here's a new belt, and what it should look like. https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/acc...inental-10x975

[DavidF]

Nope, it has not rolled over.

Here is an example of the belt shown in the OP's photo: https://www.amazon.com/Dayco-15355-T.../dp/B00ZPJ2VMQ

I guess YoungSensei has never heard of a "Top Cog" belt.

[YoungSensei]

Nope, it has not rolled over.

Here is an example of the belt shown in the OP's photo: https://www.amazon.com/Dayco-15355-T.../dp/B00ZPJ2VMQ

I guess YoungSensei has never heard of a "Top Cog" belt.

Hmm I guess not, especially not for these cars. Pretty sure that is not oem. I honestly don't think it's a top cog belt still. The "flat" portion of the belt has no V-chamfer on it from what I can see. It also looks very thin. Almost like it should be on the outside of the pulley instead of riding on the inside.

[YoungSensei]

vbelt1.png

[DavidF]

I agree it is not OEM, but how many are at this point anyway. The point is, it has not rolled over and is installed correctly. You cannot readily see the "V" shape in the photo, but it's there. Also, the belt is riding in the pulley groove properly and at the correct depth. The above photo is a bottom cog belt and the reason you are perplexed.

[YoungSensei]

What about where the belt is riding around the water pump pulley, doesnt it look slightly off center?

[skaspektor]

Yes it does seem to be inside out. Furthermore, the lower bolt is either bent or crocked and that what makes the whole alternator sit on an angle. Question- what is the size of the lower mount bolt i need to replace it? Thanks

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you all for the replies. Question- what is the size of the lower mount bolt i need to replace it? I can't find that info anywhere. And because of this lower bolt (or the fact that the bushings are gone) the alternator sits at an angle (when looking from the top) and the belt may come out of the groove unless I fix/replace the bolt. I ordered the bushings.

[YoungSensei]

alter.png
Part 13 is what you're looking for I believe.

[DavidF]

The bolt is usually fine. The failed bushings is the typical reason the alternator sits at an angle. it would be hard for the bolt to bend as the bushings have sleeves the bolt passes through. So, replace bushings and belt with bottom cogs so you don’t think the belt has rolled over in the future.

[YoungSensei]

The bolt is usually fine. The failed bushings is the typical reason the alternator sits at an angle. it would be hard for the bolt to bend as the bushings have sleeves the bolt passes through. So, replace bushings and belt with bottom cogs so you don’t think the belt has rolled over in the future.

Agreed, usually the bolt itself wont be the culprit. Check this thread out. Apparently the brackets themselves can be drilled incorrectly from the factory, causing the alternator to sit at an angle even with new bushings when everything is buttoned up. https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-missing-parts . Just something to inspect aswell.

[skaspektor]

Thank you guys. Huge help. Will let you know how it goes once i get the bushings.

- - - Updated - - -

One more thing - the fcp and other sites sell two different sized belts - one is called the accessory belt and the other is a fan belt. I do have the air con (factory installed) - so do i need a second belt (I presume the accessory one) to be installed? If so, should it be installed to look like this?IMG_3269.jpg

[YoungSensei]

Thank you guys. Huge help. Will let you know how it goes once i get the bushings.

- - - Updated - - -

One more thing - the fcp and other sites sell two different sized belts - one is called the accessory belt and the other is a fan belt. I do have the air con (factory installed) - so do i need a second belt (I presume the accessory one) to be installed? If so, should it be installed to look like this?IMG_3269.jpg

That picture looks pretty accurate, however I believe that is the power steering pump in the picture. Your ac will be on the other side. You can see the empty bracket in the picture you posted. Also the main belt looks like its riding on the middle most groove of the main pulley. I've typically seen it using the back most groove, but I don't have any experience personally with the AC and PS system so maybe someone else will chime in.

Here's a diagram with part numbers.
acbelt.png

[skaspektor]

Hey, finally got to jack up the front. Here what i saw - there is a loose wire right at the back of the alt.
Does anyone have any idea what it is? IMG_3327 2.jpgAnother bundle of wires is sitting right next to temp sensor on top of the engine (see pic) - not sure what to do with those. Thank you as always!IMG_3329.jpg

[DavidF]

Loose wire at back of alternator is alternator ground wire, it should be connected to a stud on the back of the alternator. As for the taped up bundle of wires, what does the end connector look like. It could be the diagnostic connector wiring, and a ground. But, I may be confusing my 320i vs 323i wiring in this area. The sensor is the Thermo Time Switch. The temp sensor is further down.

[skaspektor]

David thanks - could this be why my batter light is on at all time on the dash? Will unbundle the 'nest' and will send the pic back. Thanks a bunch!

[YoungSensei]

If the battery light is on, typically that means the battery is being drained and not charging. So yes, the disconnected ground on the alternator is most likely why.

[skaspektor]

Does the ground stud for this disconnected wire have anything else connected to it - or would be it be just for the loose ground? I know i am asking stupid questions - just never was friendly with electrical systems on any of my vehicles.

[YoungSensei]

Does the ground stud for this disconnected wire have anything else connected to it - or would be it be just for the loose ground? I know i am asking stupid questions - just never was friendly with electrical systems on any of my vehicles.

Pretty sure thats all that goes on there, but I'd have to double check on my car.
IMG_5617.jpg IMG_5618.jpg

[YoungSensei]

Also check if you have two sets of relays on the firewall or just one set mounted there. You may have the the "driveability" kit installed which replaced some connectors previously used, leaving them completely disconnected and unused. That would explain that one sensor plug you have not connected to anything.