E46 M3 S85 V10 Swap

[Green95Bimmer]

As the title states, the plan is to stuff a V10 in my M3. This will be the first time I've documented a build, and I fully intend on taking my time on this one. The goal for this car is to keep it every bit street ready E46 M3 as possible, but with 10 cylinders of power. Unfortunately I'm starting halfway through tear down, but honestly we all know what an e46 looks like at this point.

And before anyone says its too hard or expensive or some of my ideas cant be done, please note I am in no way an amateur. My other cars include a VR6 Turbo A4 Quattro running OBD2 that passes emissions, an e30 m20 ITB stroker with MSpnp I tuned, and a 1990 Golf ABA Turbo running 32psi on MS3pro I tuned. Other than machine work, nobody has laid hands on these cars.

That said, I very much hope people can throw out ideas or correct my mistakes!

Pic of car!
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PART ONE - Planning and Tear Down!
My plan for the swap is to use as much E46 as possible. All the swaps using an S85 (or S65) appear to use either the DCT 7 speed or a 6MT from an e9x M3. DCT is out of the question as far as I'm concerned, and I don't like the idea of being limited to a SINGLE transmission usable in swaps with either of these engines. Crazy idea time, why not fabricate an adapter to mount the Getrag 420 from the e46 to the S85/S65 block? I found a guy in Sweden who I'm talking to about this idea (they make adapters to use DCT boxes on other engines, if it pans out I will give link to the website!). There appear to me 2 main problems with this idea. 1- the s85 evidently uses a larger ring gear than the s54 (if anyone has diameter/tooth count please share!), and 2- the s85/s65 crankshaft trigger wheel is part of the flywheel and the crank sensor bolts into the transmission. Why couldn't BMW be like Mercedes and have a bracket that bolts engine side?

I also have a friend in NY who found a guy in Romania who makes various headers, evidently very nice quality at a pretty good price (If either of you lurking on here please chime in!). Will post more details if/when I get the contact info!

(Update 5/27/23)
Started tearing apart some of the interior, and found evidence of rodents living in my car at some point. Car was sitting in my moms garage in New York from May 2016 to October 2022, it wasn't a necessary expense at the time to bring this car when my wife and I moved to Las Vegas. Decided part of this build is gonna involve full audio system upgrade and fixed race seats with harnesses. PSDesigns has a very nice roll bar that integrates with their rear stress bar I've got my eyes on as well.
I'm also going to leave copies of diagrams and what not to keep it all together and as a backup.
https://ibb.co/cYBxMqV
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This is where I am at for now. Updates as I come up with them!

[motorV8ed]

Following!

[Albertan]

There is a local guy here who is having a shop do the conversion. He has a V10 with the manual trans. I only saw it once and it was really crowded in there. I can't imagine the cost to do this swap. Actually, there is a company whose name I can't remember that is doing swaps like this. I saw one at SEMA and they did a great job.
Good that you have the background you need to do this. I find that the journey is almost more fun than the destination! Good luck and keep posting

[Green95Bimmer]

To have a shop do it would probably be astronomical, something I would never even consider spending. Although I have to say I have a feeling this project is going to get out of hand like my wife's VR6 swap which started off as a simple junkyard motor with turbo at low boost, and ended as cammed and fully built with a billet wheel HX40 at 24psi.
Anyway, after searching every few days for a few weeks I found my engine! Complete 2006 running engine with all accessories and ancillaries (I think) with super ultra low 129,000 miles on it! This was the lowest price running without rod knock engine I have seen so I jumped on it. I figure with that mileage and it not going clunk clunk clunk it was either A, owned by someone who cared enough to have replaced the bearings before or B, spent its life as some old guys grocery getter. Either way, I was unaware how absolutely mammoth (and heavy) the S85 is! I've got a few other things that need addressing before I tear this motor apart, but will post updates soon!
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[vollosso]

Hey fun project, we did this. Let me know if you need anything.


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[Green95Bimmer]

That's a very nice setup, what ecu are you running?

[vollosso]

That's a very nice setup, what ecu are you running?

Maxx pro


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[Green95Bimmer]

Picked up a few more parts, mostly all brake related. Got a set of calipers from a 2017 M4 for such a good price I couldn't justify not getting them.
Pictures taken on the floor as every square inch of my garage is occupied by parts listed on eBay to fund this project
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- Delrin brake pedal bushings
- Rise Fab Shop dual master cylinder brake booster delete kit
- Tilton 72-250 balance bar
- Tilton 72-880 rocker bracket (was difficult to find this part, Summit Racing was able to order it)
I decided on converting to manual brakes for simplicity and a better overall pedal feel (when/if I get it setup properly, not sure what masters I need yet).
The 72-880 part number was obtained after contacting Tilton, its a replacement item from 800 series pedal boxes for use with Tilton 79 Series masters designed for use with motorsport abs systems. I had seen pictures of the 800 pedal box mounting standard 2 bolt masters and with this bracket mounting the pivoting 79 series masters so I gambled on fitment. Turns out it bolts right up to the pedal adapter. Still need to address the pressure sensors for the MK60 abs unit, shouldn't be too difficult with some stainless adapter tee fittings.
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- Lantz Fab 7/8 Wilwood clutch master conversion
- Chase Bays billet clutch pedal
Later on I realized I need to work out how I'm going to address the clutch switch, another days problem for now.
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If anyone has suggestions for what size masters I should use I'm all ears!

[Green95Bimmer]

Got these in today, equal length exhaust headers from Infinity Designs. Appear to be very high quality, they contour the block perfectly. Almost too tight of a fit to wrap these, might have to get them ceramic coated instead.
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[vollosso]

I’ll be a bit surprised if those fit.

Have you set it in with them yet?


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[BimmerBreaker]

Agreed... Especially cyl 10 regarding steering shaft clearance. Id test fit them in the engine bay and see how it looks first

[Green95Bimmer]

Hell no they don't fit, I never expected them to. They are frustratingly close to fitting perfect, although to actually gauge collector clearance I'm gonna need to establish where the motor is going to sit.
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The s54 measured ~10.5 inches from back of block to the motor mount stud, so keeping that distance I think I can get the motor sitting bottom of the oil pan sitting flush with the bottom of the subframe. Same distance places steering shaft within possible clearance of the 10th exhaust tube. Its really the rag joint that is close, but I do have some ideas on solutions. A rack 1 or 2 inches overall wider and use of 2nd u-joint instead of rag joint would solve all these issues.
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I've got some chassis parts on order but will definitely dive a little deeper into a subframe solution soon.

[Green95Bimmer]

Updates! Abandoned the idea of using anything other than a GS6-53DZ transmission. Inadvertently found a company that had a listing for a flywheel to use when using the e39 m5 trans, http://ttvracing.com/product/bmw-s85...nufacturer=bmw. When I inquired as to details on the setup, Matt from https://euroconnex.co/ responded saying it was a custom build in Europe and that "it wasn't the ideal transmission to use with the s85". So scratch that idea. Found a decent enough priced GS6 on eBay, should have it within a few weeks to finalize the driveline positioning.
Started on some subframe ideas and eventually came up with something I'm confident will work perfectly. I was able to use some leftover roll cage tubing from a previous project along with a butchered factory subframe to get the rack to mount snugly inside the recessed area of the pan. Also used the factory skid plate/lower brace as somewhat of an alignment jig. Still an evolving idea, I did something similar when my wife tore the diff out of her e30. Once I get a barebones design, along with mounting points for the engine, I'll flip the engine over again and gusset it in every imaginable way that fits.
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[Green95Bimmer]

Almost finished with the subframe, need to finish welding and trim the edges a bit. Not my best welds but its gonna get sanded and painted so I'm not too concerned. Its mostly repurposed front subframe reinforcement pieces and roll cage tubing so the strength shouldn't be an issue
I moved the mounting holes for the motor mounts to the front, where they are now it sits at almost a direct 90* angle to where the mounting brackets would attach to the engine block. The mounting arms off the block should be pretty short with this positioning.
There still in the issue of steering shaft, I'm not currently 100% sure as to if it will fit without modification, with mild modification, or with extreme modification. Absolute worst case scenario this exists http://www.condorspeedshop.com/produ...AaAuU9EALw_wcB
Should have the transmission next week to see how the assembly sits in the chassis.
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[BimmerBreaker]

You can buy those parts from Flaming River for a lot less than that pre assembled kit. Pretty confident they use Flaming River parts and just etch their logo into the DD shaft.

Think there are better parts to use for that shaft anyways. Next time I do a two piece shaft I'm going to use a better quality heim joint

I do doubt your stock steering shaft will fit. You'll want to get the engine in place then determine the steering shaft at that point

[Green95Bimmer]

Got a decent amount done in the last few weeks. I have the motor mounts welded up and the motor sitting almost perfect, its 1/16th of an inch towards the passenger side. Oh well, more steering clearance I guess. The oil pan sits roughly 1/4 inch above the factory skid plate, I suppose I could have gotten the motor lower but I really didn't want to sacrifice ground clearance. My motor placement puts me extremely far backwards, to the point where the 2 upper bellhousing bolts wont clear the firewall, and I had to cut and stitch the transmission tunnel in that area. After all was said and done I've got minimum 1/2 inch clearance around the transmission. I cut up the the front half of the driveshaft and welded it together to fit the alignment dowel in the center of the guibo disc and the center bearing. Driveshaft angle is pretty much 0* up/down/left/right in relation to the center bearing. Only issue now is the guibo sits dead center of the shifter hole. Garagistic has a shifter coming out next month that I believe will solve some of this issue, put in an order (along with the weld it yourself dssr kit) yesterday.

Welded in subframe reinforcement plated from CMP Auto Engineering, as well as rear sway bar and diff mount reinforcements. Pressed in BimmerWorld solid aluminum subframe mounts and front diff mount, then painted everything with POR15. Never used that stuff but it seems to cure pretty strong, absolutely will not come off my skin though. Also, mid installing a 6 point rear brace from Strutbarworks.com. Actually a pretty nice kit, super clean welds, nice powdercoating, and came with all the drill bits and hardware necessary to install.

Still need to weld up a transmission mount setup.

Also discovered that the ac compressor doesn't clear the frame without some cutting, which I really don't want to do right at the sway bar mount, so I guess the car will just continue to not have ac. Ill just have to suffer in my gutted 90 golf in Las Vegas summers, 32psi in record heat this year and it wont blow up! Decided since its not going to have a compressor, might as well just do away with that belt all together and get a Volvo steering pump working instead. Bruno Steering has a gps pump controller to vary the steering assist depending on speed, so I ordered one of those too.
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[vollosso]

Factory intake clear?


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[vollosso]

Ehhhh yes and no. Will it clear the outer layer of hood, yes. Will I have to cut out the inner layer in a few spots? Yes.. I'm not going to address this any time soon thought. I ultimately want to put a carbon fiber hood, so I'll figure it all out then.

I designed up a short runner box that’s 2” tall with a filter for a racecar I’m doing here.

The upper flange is changeable for making a topper that comes around the back where there’s more room.

Or hood vents and a printed upper rubber seal??


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[Green95Bimmer]

(2nd time posting this, not sure why)
Yes and no. It appears with some light cutting of the inner hood it will fit, the hood almost closes. Honestly if I forced it to close it probably would. Not too concerned at the moment, I always wanted a carbon fiber hood anyway so I'll deal with it then

- - - Updated - - -

Oh that intake box looks beautiful. That is 100% something I need to consider.

[Green95Bimmer]

Update! Decided to test fit all the exhaust primaries with the engine fitted. On the Driver Side 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 clear the frame with a few mm to spare, unfortunately some work will need to be done for the collector to fit. On the Passenger Side 1, 2, 3, and 4 fit, #5 needs probably 1/4 clearance to not hit the frame, and the collector fits quite nice but will need some adjustment to raise the exhaust system. Unfortunately no pics just yet.

[sly1types]

Do you guys think it’s possible to run an AC compressor with a VAC dry sump? I was looking at the dry sump to avoid the oil pan sub frame clearance issues and this build would see a decent amount of track time. Any thoughts on the AWRON ecu package?

[vollosso]

Do you guys think it’s possible to run an AC compressor with a VAC dry sump? I was looking at the dry sump to avoid the oil pan sub frame clearance issues and this build would see a decent amount of track time. Any thoughts on the AWRON ecu package?

Look here

https://www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxp...RlODBiNWFlZA==


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[sly1types]

Great build!! Do you have a build list or an info thread? What trans did you go with? Did you do cams? Any engine work aside from vanos and rod bearings?

Looks like the dry sump pan clears pretty well with the subframe?

I’m not sure there is room for an AC compressor, but maybe on the right side?

[vollosso]

Great build!! Do you have a build list or an info thread? What trans did you go with? Did you do cams? Any engine work aside from vanos and rod bearings?

Looks like the dry sump pan clears pretty well with the subframe?

I’m not sure there is room for an AC compressor, but maybe on the right side?

We didn’t document much. Tbh.

I’ve done that seap with a few transmissions. Dct and 6spd.

We build mechanical vanos adjusters.

Engine was stock except custom trumpets.

We moved stuff around pretty good. But yeah with a little effort it fits nicely.


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[Green95Bimmer]

Updates. Haven't really had much time to play with this, as its not high priority. Evidently the heater core on my wife's Audi takes priority over my car, 2nd time in 13 years I've done that core. Absolute horror show.
Found a GS6 transmission bracket from Anderson Speed and Steel in Sweden. Its one part of a two part setup to install a BMW driveline in a Volvo. The part that bolts onto the transmission worked absolutely perfectly, bringing the transmission mounts very nearly perfectly inline with the rear 2 crossmember bolts. I opted to make a crossmember out of 1/4 inch steel, but I found an "E46 DCT Bracket" from Seems Legit Garage that I suspect may work without modification as the bolts for the mounts are what looks like 1/4 ~ 1/2 inch further back than mine sits, and the trans side bracket is slotted quite a bit. Keep in mind the crossmember isn't done, I ran out of welding gas and didn't want to drive across town.
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Another issue I have is the shifter, as you can see there's a big rubber disc where the linkage should go! Have some parts on order I think will work perfect, they are expected to ship 'October'.
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I also don't want to put the back seat in, but at the same time I don't want it to look like a gutted race car. Does anyone know a nice/clean rear seat delete setup? I found what looks like a nice carpet covering from Stern Performance Parts, but there aren't any installed pictures I can find. I figure if I use that carpet, for the rear brace fitment I can break out the box cutter and sewing kit, figure something out.
https://sternperformance.de/en/home/...r-bmw-e46.html