Making clutch pedal stiff

[zellamay]

I have had a UUC short shifter in my car for over twenty years (although only about 60k miles on it over that time). It was the first version that included the ERK (Effort Reduction Kit). I think I bought it when Ben Liaw was still there, and had not started Rogue Engineering.

It has been fine for me. The only real increase in shift lever effort is engaging Reverse (and it’s been that way since installation). Otherwise, all shift throws still feel solid, shift lever hasn’t gotten sloppy, and shift throws were reduced maybe 25%.

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My Z3M had a short shifter in it when I bought it. It looks like it could be an older UUC. It doesn't quite look the same. I also have the M knob that sits very low on the stick,
so my shift motion is ultra short. Like you, I have to give it a firm push to get into Reverse. Since I rebuilt it, and did shift pins, it's very nice and crisp. I would not spend much money to have it, but it came with the car.

[propcar]

I kind of understand the desire here... for some reason my M3 has a fairly heavy clutch (as others have commented). Maybe something wrong here... but it's had that weight since I got it with 95k miles... and now it has 201k miles and it's still the OEM clutch I actually love the feel... although I think the dualmass is on it's way out as I get some strange vibrations when decelerating at 3.5k rpms.

[MauiM3Mania]

.... Look into Auto Solutions.

What he said. I have AS shifters in both my 04 M3 and 99 M3. BMWDirtracer somehow modified the AS shifter in the 99 to work with the 420G six speed when we did the S50B32 swap.

I am sold on AutoSolution shifters.

[aeronaut]

I appreciate all the responses.

I’m going with a Rogue Short Shifter & tilton 600 firewall mounted brake & clutch pedal, (clutch p with slightly oversized master cylinder to fit my personal preference) and buying a new gas pedal assembly (my springs are old, and the assembly is very cheap.)

Got a guy to do all the fab work for me, not new to any of this.

That's a commitment.
There are a lot of things to consider when re-engineering the braking and clutch systems. Brake booster, M/C sizes vs f/r bias, total pressure plate throw, just to name a few. It's not just a fabrication job.
Good luck.

[NeilM]

Two threads... Ok, Put a big spring on the clutch pedal, opposing it's throw, that will make it harder. Other than that. you aren't going to make it harder.

Ok, you could probably try to use a E36 325 slave cylinder. The opposite of what people do when they install a M5 clutch in an E36 M3 and the pedal is too light with the M3 slave. (theory is that the 325 slave is smaller, and requires more force for the same throw.)

When I installed the E46 M3 6 speed, ltw flywheel, M5 clutch, I installed the 325 slave at the same time, and it feels exactly the same as factory clutch. People have reported that not installing the 325 slave, the clutch is too light.

But you are never going to get an American V8 heavy clutch feel in this car.

Yeah the 325 slave is a well established way to restore clutch effort after doing that swap. Relatively easy and cheap for the OP to do, since the slave is external to the bell housing. If there's an alternate master cylinder for these cars I've never heard of anyone doing that.

When I installed my M5 clutch kit and flywheel I went the other direction, sourcing a Sachs Performance pressure plate that takes plenty of pedal effort. My logic was that dropping the trans to change the clutch alone at home using jack stands is such a PITA that I never wanted to revisit the experience, so I went for an over-specced clutch system. The engagement is more abrupt, but for a track car that's fine, and it's still perfectly drivable on the street.

Of course within a year I pulled the trans again to swap in a 6-speed — so much for plans.

Neil
96 M3

[MauiM3Mania]

Threads merged.

[propcar]

Yeah the 325 slave is a well established way to restore clutch effort after doing that swap. Relatively easy and cheap for the OP to do, since the slave is external to the bell housing. If there's an alternate master cylinder for these cars I've never heard of anyone doing that.

When I installed my M5 clutch kit and flywheel I went the other direction, sourcing a Sachs Performance pressure plate that takes plenty of pedal effort. My logic was that dropping the trans to change the clutch alone at home using jack stands is such a PITA that I never wanted to revisit the experience, so I went for an over-specced clutch system. The engagement is more abrupt, but for a track car that's fine, and it's still perfectly drivable on the street.

Of course within a year I pulled the trans again to swap in a 6-speed — so much for plans.

Neil
96 M3

I'm wondering what clutch kit that is? I've seen Sachs performance clutch, but not the pressure plate. I assume that's still Dual mass

[NeilM]

I'm wondering what clutch kit that is? I've seen Sachs performance clutch, but not the pressure plate. I assume that's still Dual mass

At some point around 20 years ago it was figured out that since the more powerful 3.6 liter S38 engine in the E34 M5 had a similar clutch disk and pressure plate, maybe those parts would make a suitable upgrade for the E36 M3. 'Similar' in this case means the same spline configuration and 240mm clutch diameter. While the S38 had a dual mass flywheel, unlike the E36 its clutch friction disk also used a sprung hub, which would be advantageous in restoring some compliance when fitting a single mass lightweight flywheel. AFAIK the M5 kit for E36 was first commercialized by UUC, who still offer it today (although with additional friction disk variations), see http://store.uucmotorwerks.com/light...utch-p194.aspx The E36 flywheel also needs to be machined differently from stock to work with the new clutch system, so you can't just drop the M5 clutch bits into a stock E36 without also changing the flywheel.

One byproduct of this setup is an unwelcome reduction in clutch pedal effort, as already mentioned earlier in this thread. The conventional remedy is to fit the smaller bore (20.64mm vs. 22.2mm) 325i clutch slave cylinder. However a friend of mine, who at the time was involved in a different flywheel project, alerted me to the existence of a high clamping force version of the Sachs M5 pressure plate that would also restore pedal effort. I think that back then Sachs called this something else, but today it's under the Sachs Performance category. You can't get the E34 M5 version in the US any more, but it is available in Europe (p/n 883082 999647).

So I bought the UUC flywheel and pieced together my own M5 clutch kit using the stock E34 M5 friction disk and the Sachs Performance pressure plate. This has been working great since late 2005 when I installed it.

The above is more than most people need to know — except for one thing, which is that there's also a readily available E36 M3 version (https://www.bimmerworld.com/Clutch-P...2-999-792.html) of the Sachs Performance pressure plate. This could be fitted to any stock pattern E36 M3 clutch system to increase pedal effort. Some disassembly/reassembly required!

Neil
96 M3

[propcar]

thanks for the info, I was aware of the E34 M5 clutch compatability with some flywheels, UUC and JB racing. But didn't know about the sport pressure plate.

There is also a Sachs sport clutch kit that I hadn't seen before (wasn't really looking for it) that is also sprung like the E34 M5. Usually these are quite expensive but FCP has them on clearance.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/clu...e-881861999855