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Thread: V12 shuts 1 bank down revs or load

  1. #26
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    93 fjord grey 850csi
    i believe it is i have tested it already but did so again today just to be sure as i really cant tell the difference between injectors switching off and spark turning off but i fitted my inductive timing light and reved it so it shut down a bank 1-6 to be exact and as before it shut down the bank via the injection and the spark kept on going
    so unless there's something I've missed my options appear to be as follows

    1) EML computer failing
    2) wiring intermittently failing or high resistance worth checking further other than the continuity test already done
    3)New Beru CID doughnuts supplied with new ignition wire set not original BMW doughnuts will swap with original BMW ones

  2. #27
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    Had a 1991 BMW 850

    Doughnuts

    On the Doughnuts, Make sure the tabs on the inside of the doughnut are facing towards the distributor. Some have very visible tabs, some are just flush with the surface. Obvious if you look at both sides.

  3. #28
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    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    What codes are stored in DME's? EML codes?
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (new 6L engine)
    '91 Dinan 850 TT stage III (brand new engine) 21st Century Tech meets 18th Century Dinan...
    '91 850i 6sp (mint) (sold)
    '90 Dinan 750iL TT stage III (Guido - The Beast)
    '94 850 CSi The Detroit Auto Show car (restored to factory perfect) (sold)
    '96 850Ci, The George Carlin car
    ''73 3.0 csi, '08 535i, '03 X5 4.6is
    ...and a few other non BMW cars

  4. #29
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    Yes I have just re-tested he spark when it shuts down 1 bank and the 2nd bank when you continue at about 5000rpm.
    it shuts down the injectors and the spark is still going this leads me to believe that it is
    1) EML failing
    2) wiring loom intermittent broken wire
    3) cid sensor bremi original supplied with new ignition leads(unlikely as the fault was there even with new BMW doughnuts)

  5. #30
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    Supercharged 850ci
    OK, so once I have worked on the car that spent 2 years in different shops including the dealer...
    Issue was that one bank would shut down when it warms up at 4k rpm... after troubleshooting all the usual suspects what ended up being the culprit is a Dinan Eprom chip inside the ecu! When It warmed up is simply shut down at higher rpm.
    The owner was floored to say the least!

  6. #31
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    93 fjord grey 850csi
    I cannot read the fault codes as my reader just shows an error when i try to read them now on both banks of cylinders
    i will try the reader on a friends e34 just to confirm its not the reader

    - - - Updated - - -

    will check this evening but they are as delivered from bremi/karlyn sti you would hope they would fit them correctly wouldn't you

  7. #32
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    is the EML apart from the chip inside the same between the 850 and the CSI?? i hope so as i have a wrecked 850 arriving soon at my warehouse

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlin840 View Post
    is the EML apart from the chip inside the same between the 850 and the CSI?? i hope so as i have a wrecked 850 arriving soon at my warehouse
    Yes, I believe the EML computer is the same apart from a chip.
    You should get yourself a proper set up with inpa and dis otherwise you end up chasing your own tail with these cars...

  9. #34
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    Hi Brain,

    Note on the fuel pressure regulators. The original fuel pressure regulators are two-stage. The first stage is for idling and light load operation. At low loads, there is a comparatively high vacuum in the engine's intake system. This high vacuum switches the fuel pressure regulator to 2.5 bar. Under higher loads, there is less vacuum in the intake system. This switches the fuel pressure regulator to 3 bar. This means that the engine runs too rich when idling and in the partial load range. For this reason, the adjustable fuel pressure regulators should definitely be replaced with original regulators.

    On the subject of EML - The hardware of the M70/S70 EMLs is identical. Only the EPROM needs to be replaced. However, I exclude the EML as the cause of your issues.

    Despite your new CPS, I have the suspicion that this or another ignition problem is responsible for the shutdown of the cylinder bank. I've just had a whole odyssey on a friends car, with new CPS (donuts) right now and found that the new sensors available to me all failed. The new ignition cables, including the new CPS, came from the German manufacturer BBT. Original cable sets from BMW are no longer available in Germany. The M70 didn't run properly again until I reinstalled the old, used and original BMW CPS.

    The symptoms matched those you described. Again and again the right or left cylinder bank or both banks are switched off. Gas off and the banks were reactivated by the DMEs. In a ride of about 20 kilometers I had about 40 shutdowns and reactivations. By the way, the CPS are evaluated by the DMEs and not by the EML.

    It may be interesting that the hardware of the DMEs is also identical, between M70 and S70. Here too, only the EPROM needs to be replaced.

    If you get the donor vehicle on your yard, try its CPSs and DMEs in your CSi.

    Good luck debugging and best regards, Joachim

  10. #35
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    thank you very much i did not know about the 2 stage FP regulator
    i do aim to swap the doughnuts back to the original BMW ones before i do anything else as when you think about it, it does seem to be the most logical solution although a little disappointing that an OEM supplier may have supplied dodgy parts or indeed fitted incorrectly either way i intend to try sometime next week

  11. #36
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    05/1993 BMW 850CSi
    In my case, they have been fitted correctly. For testing I turned the CPS. After this, the engine starts and dies after 2 seconds, also with fault #16, Cat.-Protection of the DME.


    Can you please attach a Picture of your failing CPS. If I got you right, your CPS have been originaly BMW ones? If this is the case, i don´t try to order some from BMW. They are still available with partnumber 12121725020 for 142 € each.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArnoNym View Post
    Hi Brain,

    Note on the fuel pressure regulators. The original fuel pressure regulators are two-stage. The first stage is for idling and light load operation. At low loads, there is a comparatively high vacuum in the engine's intake system. This high vacuum switches the fuel pressure regulator to 2.5 bar. Under higher loads, there is less vacuum in the intake system. This switches the fuel pressure regulator to 3 bar. This means that the engine runs too rich when idling and in the partial load range. For this reason, the adjustable fuel pressure regulators should definitely be replaced with original regulators.

    On the subject of EML - The hardware of the M70/S70 EMLs is identical. Only the EPROM needs to be replaced. However, I exclude the EML as the cause of your issues.

    Despite your new CPS, I have the suspicion that this or another ignition problem is responsible for the shutdown of the cylinder bank. I've just had a whole odyssey on a friends car, with new CPS (donuts) right now and found that the new sensors available to me all failed. The new ignition cables, including the new CPS, came from the German manufacturer BBT. Original cable sets from BMW are no longer available in Germany. The M70 didn't run properly again until I reinstalled the old, used and original BMW CPS.

    The symptoms matched those you described. Again and again the right or left cylinder bank or both banks are switched off. Gas off and the banks were reactivated by the DMEs. In a ride of about 20 kilometers I had about 40 shutdowns and reactivations. By the way, the CPS are evaluated by the DMEs and not by the EML.

    It may be interesting that the hardware of the DMEs is also identical, between M70 and S70. Here too, only the EPROM needs to be replaced.

    If you get the donor vehicle on your yard, try its CPSs and DMEs in your CSi.

    Good luck debugging and best regards, Joachim
    Good point on CPS sensors, I also had multiple fail made by Venmo in Italy. I also just like you had to switch back to good used original BMW sensors!
    Venmo sensors lasted about 6 months.

  13. #38
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    To all those interested and/or affected,


    Since BMW no longer supplies the ignition cable sets, I was happy to find a supplier who would again supply complete cable sets in cable ducts including the camshaft sensors (CPS/DONUTS).


    Cylinder 01-06: https://www.bbt-automotive.com/tecdoc/zk0928i/
    Cylinder 07-12: https://www.bbt-automotive.com/tecdoc/zk0927i/


    The cable sets make a high-quality impression and also work very well. What unfortunately does not work well are the camshaft sensors that BBT has installed in its ignition cable sets.


    On the 850i mentioned above, all ignition components have been renewed, with the exception of the DME control units and the crankshaft sensors.


    When researching the CPS, I found sensors from Holstein (2CAM0169), from VEMO (V20-72-0114) and from Walker (235-1731) in addition to the sensors installed in the BBT ignition cable sets, but all of them down to the last detail look completely identical. Therefore, I assume that the companies mentioned above do not produce the sensors themselves. Unfortunately, the actual manufacturer of the parts is not recognizable.


    I had a total of four of these CPS at my disposal. Two brand new from the BBT cables and two of unknown origin and age. All worked incorrectly!


    The attached images show one of the non-working BBT sensors and the working one, with the BMW part number. The BMW sensor comes from an original BMW ignition cable set manufactured by BERU. It is unclear whether the sensor was also produced by BERU. Maybe one of you knows this manufacturer logo from the two detailed pictures.


    According to the ETK, BMW still supplies (any) CPS. Part number 12121725023 is no longer available, but CPS with part number 12121725020 are still available. Now I am unsure whether I can order these sensors or whether they are also scrap.

    Best regards, Joachim

    BBT_IMG_7067_02.jpgBMW_IMG_7070_02.jpgBMW_Detail_IMG_7074_02.jpgBMW_Detail_IMG_7071_02.jpg

  14. #39
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    I had problems with both of my CIDs for a while after buying my car. Both turned out to be aftermarket but not the same as each other. One would fail while driving at light load. If it failed I could let off the gas and stab it and it would come back to life. The other would die somewhat randomly on cold mornings sometimes at idle sometimes while driving. Usually I would have to restart the engine to fix it but once it warmed up it worked fine so I guess being cold made it more sensitive somehow. I replaced them with genuine BMW 12121725020 and never had a problem again.

    https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-1...uine-bmw-part/
    Last edited by LappingLuke; 04-20-2023 at 01:59 PM. Reason: formatting

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by LappingLuke View Post
    ...I replaced them with genuine BMW 12121725020 and never had a problem again.
    Thanks very much LappingLuke! I'll try these out in the next few weeks. Best regards, Joachim

  16. #41
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    I just had a stroke of luck i think
    while in my office i looked down while on a phone call and there on the top of some old DME's i have was a familiar looking EML from an e32 750, how unbelievable is that! needless to say i finished the phone call quickly
    1)what would happen if i just plugged the 750 EML in as is?
    2)is there any instructions on replacing the chip in the EML?

    BTW i replaced both of the CID's with the genuine BMW ones and there is no difference
    Last edited by merlin840; 04-25-2023 at 04:55 AM.

  17. #42
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    the E32 750 EML works on E31 M70, no matter if it has the old M1.2 -156 DME or -352 M1.7 DME https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...=EML+-156+-352
    I would first try the E32 EML, but if you want to change the EML chip, instruction on my website http://twrite.org/shogunnew/upgrades...mlupgrade.html
    Last edited by shogun; 04-25-2023 at 07:12 AM.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  18. #43
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    what about S70?
    what would happen in your opinion?
    my guess it will probably show an eml light or less likely drive with a default throttle setting ratio
    Last edited by merlin840; 04-25-2023 at 03:36 PM.

  19. #44
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    Have not tried it on S70, only interchanged EML control modules between M70 M1.2 and M1.7 and they work
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  20. #45
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    Looks like I got excited prematurely, the eml I have is from an 88 model, the 8 series when it arrives at my warehouse is a 90 model and my CSI is a 93 while it is possible the 90 and the 93 may have the same eml,the one I have at the moment has a different plug and does not fit the csi, bugger
    I'm epinephrine of it just maybe easier on the Long run to get the eml refurbished by Mr eee to drive��

  21. #46
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    Hello Brain,

    CIDs - Sorry swapping the CID sensors didn't solve the problem. I was so sure! I'm slowly running out of ideas. Since all of your ignition parts are new, I can only think of cable breaks/short circuits or the DMEs. Incidentally, the M70 DMEs can also be installed in the S70 for a short test run without changing the chips.

    EML - An M70 EML can easily be installed in the CSi for test operation. For continuous operation, however, the S70 EPROM should definitely be installed.

    Instructions - The German company WOKKE offers instructions on how to install their tuning chips in the control units.

    https://www.wokke.de/wokke_performan..._Chip_Satz.htm

    Unfortunately, this manual seems to be available only in German. But as for English/German/English translations, unlike other languages, Google translator does a pretty good job.

    The procedure for replacing the EML-EPROM is based on the instructions for the old DME 156 control units, since they have the same mechanical structure.

    Best regards, Joachim

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlin840 View Post
    ...has a different plug and does not fit the csi...
    Of course I could be wrong, but I've never held an EML with a different connector in my hand. The DMEs yes! There are the old devices ending in 156 (they look like EMLs) and the new ones ending in 352. The 156s have larger cases than the 352s and have different connectors. As far as I know, the 156s were never used in the E31s and were only installed in the E32s before 1990.

  23. #48
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    The plug is only fractionally different I will investigate more thoroughly tonight but it looks as if the pivot pin on one end of the plug is fatter than the older eml thus allowing for backwards compatibility ie newer modules fitting older plugs although this could be complete BS as it s only a quick trial and it was twilight

  24. #49
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    These are the 2 EML module 023 is the csi's one and 156 is the 88 e32 750il
    Attached Images Attached Images

  25. #50
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    The 156 is not an EML. It looks like an EML, but it's actually an old Motronic M1.2 DME.

    With the generation M1.2 control units, the EML and DME housings looked the same. In the M1.7 generation, the design of the EML housing was retained, but the housing of the DMEs was changed.

    Yesterday I took some photos of an old set of E32 ECUs, the EML at the top center and the DMEs at the bottom. The later attached pictures are older.

    Edit: Two more pictures attached and post completely revised. Order now: M1.2 (E32, M70), M1.7 (E32, E31, M70), M1.7.1 (E31 S70)



    IMG_7210_02.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by ArnoNym; 04-28-2023 at 02:35 AM.

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