FS: 1980 323i - PROJECT

[Bimmerman323i]

For Sale: 1980 323i
Mileage: 150,360
Transmission: 5-speed manual
Black / Black cloth interior

Pics: https://photos.app.goo.gl/CmXixnqzpYNvRLrK9

15 x 7-inch RH Type W7513 wheels (similar look to MiM). Direct fit, no spacers. Sweet wheels. Might’ve been the clincher for me when I bought the car. Don’t see these around very often.

Zender side skirts (“low end” / straight type)

Zender rear spoiler

BBS front air dam (replacement for the broken one currently installed)

Engine: Prior owner replaced the block with one from a 1984 325e. Not sure what else was done at the time (looking for the documentation that’s buried somewhere in my basement – will update listing after I find it).

The body has rust (see pics), the worst of which is along the rear driver side window, and the trunk floor. Also, prior owner had the roof cut to install a moon roof. Not surprisingly, it developed a pretty decent leak over time.

The car DOES NOT run and should be considered a project car. If you buy it, you will most definitely need a trailer to get it home.

Background

I’ve owned the car since December of 2001. At the time, it was my dream car. My dad and I bought one-way tickets and flew from Sioux City, Iowa, to Seattle, Washington, to make the purchase and drive it home. During the first 5 or 6 years I owned it we spent countless hours cranking on it together - it was my pride and joy. Then life, and everything that comes with it – work, marriage, mortgage, kids, etc. – happened, and I didn’t keep up with it. It hasn’t been started in probably 10 years, and has spent the last 15 years under a car cover in the garage. I lost Dad a couple years ago, and I have no motivation to work on the car. I’m ready to see it go to someone who will make the best possible use of it, whether that’s restoration, or perhaps as a donor car for another e21 project (pending the rust on this one). If it’s a father/son project, all the better.

Price: $3000 / OBO. I have no idea how to price this thing - not many e21 323i listings online. That may be a lot of money for a vehicle that doesn’t run, and may not be worth fixing, but at the same time, I think there’s probably that much value in parts (the wheels, rear disc setup, euro bumpers, Zender aero pieces, non-A/C console, engine, etc.). Point is, I’m not going to give it away for $500, but if you’re really interested, let’s discuss.

Serious inquiries only please.

Call/text/PM.
402-730-8544

[DavidF]

Man. If I were closer to you, I would drive over and hand you the cash right now! But, Austin to Nebraska is a bit too far for me at the moment. If no one else wants it, maybe we can meet half way somewhere.

I know it is blasphemy, but I am considering doing an M20 engine swap on my '82 320is (Henna). I already have a M20 subframe, M20 bellhousing for my 245 trans, and 6 cylinder tach. Just need your car or a wrecked E30.

[amarino]

Looks like a great car, glad you kept it covered and in the garage to keep the paint safe. My E21 sat a few years outside in California under the sun and the clear coat and paint gone. I wish I had the space and money to take on this project.

Just need your car or a wrecked E30.

Just my 2 cents and not to derail the FS thread, but you're probably better off with an M20 from an E30 as they use EFI and not K-Jet like the ones that came in E21s.

[DavidF]

Looks like a great car, glad you kept it covered and in the garage to keep the paint safe. My E21 sat a few years outside in California under the sun and the clear coat and paint gone. I wish I had the space and money to take on this project.




Just my 2 cents and not to derail the FS thread, but you're probably better off with an M20 from an E30 as they use EFI and not K-Jet like the ones that came in E21s.

Yes, you are correct. But, with the M20 out of the E30 it is even further from a true E21 323i than with the CIS M20 from the E21. And, you have to move the battery or get super creative.

Back to the original topic: If I bought the car, it would hard for me to decide what to do with it. I think it is easily fixable as is and I would thus probably refurbish it and still find a wrecked E30 for the sport. Then sell one or the other. There is just not enough money in these E21's to do a full blown restoration.

[goinstrong]

Wow I am also very tempted! The black/black combo is my favorite…
For the M20 swap, have you considered an M42? They are bullet proof, lighter than the M20, and make you feel like you are part of the car. I had one for a while but it is now my son’s car. This 323i would be a perfect addition! I will PM you…


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[DavidF]

Looks like Bimmerman323i and I have a deal and I will be getting this classic back on the road. Never let a 323i die!

[cgifool]

Not a bad price at all, lots to like about this car! I don't see why the 325 block changes anything, it still has the CIS injection. The rust is the biggest challenge IMHO, but I've definitely seen worse.

[DavidF]

I agree completely. It is a native 323i with euro bumpers and all. I definitely like the fact that the CIS injection is intact and thus the engine bay has not been molested.

The rust is minor and not a big deal for me. I do my own body and paint and have tackled much worse. I plan to eliminate the rear side marker lights while I am at it.

My question will be whether or not I add A/C to this car. I added factory/dealer A/C to my '82 320is so I know it can be done, it is just a pain. But, will probably happen, then the A/C delete center console will be up for sale/trade. So, always on the look out for original INTERIOR a/c components including evap/fan/airbox, mounting brackets, grille, console, ducts, wiring, etc. I don't need engine bay parts as I fabricate my own with modern components. If you want the a/c delete console, I will trade for a complete interior a/c system (Behr).

Also, it seems I am going to need to find an original radio wiring harness.

Oh, and that sunroof has to go...welding in new sheetmetal will be the scariest part as I always worry about warping the surrounding metal...I'm terrible at fixing oil canning and not making it worse. So, if anyone can cut out a piece of the roof on their parts car, I'm interested...just need the piece the size/location of the sunroof.

[2002jm]

That is great, glad someone with the tools is going to get this 323i.
jm

[cgifool]

Great news!! Congrats y'all. Eager to follow the progress.

[goinstrong]

Excellent news! This is a great car! If it had A/C, I would have bought it but that was what kept me hesitant being black on black. Sounds like it is in perfect hands! Would have been my 10th E21!!! LoL


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[BIMMERBOYZ]

Upset I missed out on this. David F sending a PM.

[DavidF]

Got the 323i home (Lincoln to Austin) without incident. Bimmerman323i represented the car well and was a pleasure doing business with. When I got it home, I immediately started removing all fuel injection related parts for a full rebuild prior to attempting to start the engine. To facilitate removing injectors, I removed the valve cover and was pleasantly surprised to find the cleanest engine internals I have ever seen…perfect. Photo to follow.

Small amount of fuel in lines was still liquid (not tar), so hopeful tank and pumps are in good shape.

Paint and body will take more work than anticipated…

But, the car will not be parted out.

I will probably start a new thread related to my work on this car.

IMG_6206[1].jpg

[Beam318ti]

David-- looking forward to the progress on the car.

[DavidF]

Actually, might just keep this thread going…

Pulled spark plugs and introduced some fogging oil to cylinders. Spark plugs were basically hand tight, weird. Lots of grease/dirt in plug recesses and all over engine…yuck.

Removed all coolant hoses and flushed block. Coolant was present and just a bit of rust. But, overall pleased for a car that has been sitting so long. Radiator looks brand new. Thermostat housing has rusted and broken bleed screw, but overall probably salvageable. So far, so good.

Pulled timing belt covers and rotated engine to align timing marks…they were spot on. Again, lots of grime. Pulled idler pulley and water pump. Other than lots of grime, both looked in perfect condition. Water pump impeller looked brand new, spun smoothly and no lateral shaft play. But, it is the old style pump and I plan to change it to new style that uses a 32mm nut fan clutch. Timing belt was in good shape, but will be changed due to unknown mileage and age…same with idler pulley.

Tip: way easier to remove grilles and perform timing belt work through nose of car. You can actually see what you are doing and getting timing spot on.

Strange discovery: WUR had a spacer under it made from the bottom section of another WUR. I suspect it was to compensate for short fuel lines or an alternator belt that was too short. The alt. was basically hard against the WUR. Found that the alternator bracket is broken.

Found return fuel line badly kinked (due to allowing banjo fitting to rotate too far when tightening banjo bolt) , and hole in cold start valve fuel line…PO mentioned fuel leak upon starting and this was the reason it was parked and sat…I think I found the culprit. Need to figure out how to get a new cold start valve fuel line or learn to make my own which I hope to avoid.

Up next: pull in tank pump and inspect condition of tanks fuel. If fuel not tar, then will siphon and replace fuel as well as pull pump/filter/accumulator assembly and inspect test. But, this will have to wait as next weekend is dedicated to getting my boat back in the water after sitting in my driveway doing much needed maintenance and cosmetic work over the winter. Also made my own new cover…that’s hard work!

Edit: Engine internal photo added to previous post #13

[DavidF]

Pulled front and rear bumpers to prep for re-chrome. Front bumper only had one bolt per side.

Front de-federalized (about 20 lbs weight reduction):
DE1F82E4-0658-4CBE-9276-CBDD822E0DE2.jpg

Rear de-federalized (again about 20 lb weight reduction).
F33649B7-E60B-43EC-A766-BF362E8457DE.jpg

The steel was welded to bumper in a few spots, otherwise blocking nuts…cutting it apart to remove was tedious.

Ready for chrome shop:
D16313BD-CA38-4EF7-9686-18D0F1A106D4.jpg

Had to pound out a few dents and do some straightening. Found body filler under paint. Can’t blame whoever did that because no way to pound out dents with all the extra steel in the bumper. Chrome shop will have to make it perfect.

[okieflats]

So this will be your ultimate, and you can sell the other, the IS? We can watch it on BAT.

[DavidF]

bummer is I have to find another complete interior a/c package. Any chance you have another one lying around

[DavidF]

Anyone want a decent pair of rear side marker lights…permanently deleting from the car. My goal is to get the car back to as delivered in Europe. But, will have to think long and hard about removing added door beams…depends on what it looks like when I get to that point, or how hard it makes working on the door. From what I have seen so far the federalization work is ham fisted. The bumper welds were booger welds done by a novice at best.

Marker lights are free, or let’s say $25 to cover shipping. PM me if interested.
36906B15-CB62-4AA4-91FE-5D0562882B6C.jpg

[DavidF]

Stripped down engine about as far as I am going to take it. Next will be cleaning all the grease and grime off the engine and polishing up the engine bay. This is not intended to be a restoration, so i have to resist the urge to strip everything out of the engine bay and repaint. But, I continue to be pleasantly surprise regarding the condition of the engine (from a visual perspective). Clean intake valves...

I will be removing brake and clutch master cylinders to replace before I start re-assembling the engine as the space will never be better than it is now.

And, can someone explain to me why both of my E21 only had one bolt (the top one) holding the starter in place. Lazy mechanics or what?

IMG_6248[1].jpg

IMG_6245[1].jpg

[TheNeek]

And, can someone explain to me why both of my E21 only had one bolt (the top one) holding the starter in place. Lazy mechanics or what?

The WUR is usually in the way, you need to loosen it to get the other bolt and bracket in. It's been a while since I did a starter on my old M10 but that's what I remember. So lazy is the answer.

[DavidF]

That makes sense for the M10, but M20 was the same. On the M20, the WUR is positioned well ahead of the starter motor.

[DavidF]

Most of the current activities on the car are focused around collecting new parts (about $2500 worth, so far), cleaning parts to be reinstalled, and cleaning about 1/8" thick grease and grime off the front of the engine. But, the good news is that I found the source of the oil leak:

IMG_6249[1].jpg

The camshaft seal cover had a large piece of the O-ring missing. Some evidence of red RTV (hate that stuff) being pushed under the flange...valiant, but otherwise futile attempt at stemming the flow of oil.

This is as far as I got. I have new sintered intermediate shaft and camshaft gears/pulleys, but it seems a new washer is needed for the camshaft gear and 5mm longer bolt for each. M10x35 vs M10x30 (original). This is due to the sintered gear being thicker. The camshaft gear is even more confusing as most M20 engines have a camshaft driven distributor which has a rotor drive bolted to face of the timing gear. The older M20's had a 3/4" square drive fitting to be able to turn the engine by hand with a 3/4" socket wrench or breaker bar. With the newer engines, that task was achieved via a very long crank snout bolt head. The long bolt head keeps the socket wrench in place. But, I cannot install the distributor rotor drive as I suspect it will interfere with the timing cover. I just need the washer and longer bolt. The washer that was used on the old style camshaft gear is too large and does not fit within the recess of the gear. As such, there is very little thread engagement and even less with the shorter bolt.

So, I the washer I think I need is on back order from BMW: 11.31.1.730.610. The longer bolt part number is: 11.31.1.714.798 Both parts are on back order at dealer for 3-4 weeks.

Edit: well, the washer turns out to be NLA. So, my plan is to make my own washer to fit and fill the inside of the mounting recess in the gear/pulley. I will also source my own M10x35 bolt. I considered not using a washer, but am a bit worried the the clamping force needs to be distributed over a larger area so as not to point load the pulley at the bolt head. I know there is not much load force against the bolt head, but why chance it. Interesting that this topic is not covered very well on the internet or forums. Loctite will be employed on the bolts.

[DavidF]

So, the camshaft pulley bolt/washer order did not work out too well...dealer said NLA on washer and 4 weeks backorder on bolts. Heck with that, so I made do with what I had in my stash of stuff. Let me start by saying the large thick pinned washer that was installed on the camshaft and intermediate shaft pulleys is ok to reuse on the intermediate shaft pulley as the bolting/clamping surface of the pulley is large and flat (on both sides). But, on the camshaft pulley, that is not the case, see photos below. The "sintered" updated design camshaft pulley has a recess in the face to receive the distributor rotor drive bracket. Thus the clamping area for this pulley is intended to be fully in the recess. As such, using the large flat washer concentrates the clamping forces to an area of the pulley it was not designed to receive. The washer in the recess will also keep the locating pin from being able to back out. Disclaimer: All this is conjecture on my part.

My solution was to make my own washer that filled the recess just as the rotor drive bracket did. Here are the results:

Machined a washer using a thick old left over washer that came from my '71 Chevy C10 restoration (dang, I really need to clean-up my lathe):
IMG_6254[1].jpg

Cut a notch in the washer to accommodate the rotor drive bracket clocking/locating tab:
IMG_6256[1].jpg

Thin electroplated zinc layer for corrosion protection...I did not want paint interfering with proper clamping force and I did not want corrosion to possibly cause expansion and unwanted stress on pulley:
IMG_6259[1].jpg

Finished product mockup. Bolt is M10x35 (strong 10.9) that came from a long ago totaled E46 (my son did it) that I parted out. The bolt probably came form the front subframe reinforcing plate:
IMG_6261[1].jpg

[cgifool]

awesome work!