Engine options, again

[Yahweh]

I have a solid lifter S50 11.5:1 W/140mm rods, CatCam 282/274 that could rev to 8K, but the MS41 has only got it up to 7700..
Made 275/240 (Dynojet) in an E30. But S54 is the easy and cheaper way out. Will see what it make this year with MS41.3, Carbon Airbox, and better tuner..

S54 Billet Block is only 20 LBS lighter for $12K. Id love to loose 100LBS off the noes, there has to be potential in the N52/3!

Original Ida was to deturbo a b58, But I bet the N53 would be lighter. Just take a carbon box and bolt it strait to the head!

- - - Updated - - -

MSS54 works really well, You can make 350WHP reliably with the stock DME!

[aeronaut]

I have lightly looked at the N52. Cheap examples are available, but costs to get to 270whp seem to add quickly. And I can't find much info available on rpm limits.

[ScotcH]

I have lightly looked at the N52. Cheap examples are available, but costs to get to 270whp seem to add quickly. And I can't find much info available on rpm limits.

I'll let you know in a couple months once we figure ours out

- - - Updated - - -

I've been wondering about this for a while, don't some of the S54 sensors need changed to work with the Link? Crank-position sensor? Other?

It's pretty easy. We run ours with the e36 PnP link (which is a version of the G4+), and a stock e36 m50 wiring harness that's been modified a bit. I add the double vanos controller wiring (it's 6 wires back to the ECU) ... that's about it. s54 and m50/m52 uses a lot of the same sensors so it's pretty easy to get it running. The Crank and cam, temp, TPS sensors all work fine with the Link. Which is all you really need.

Our friends with a e90/s54 run theirs with an older Link G4 with the standard Link wiring pigtail terminated to work on the stock sensors. Also works great (cable drive throttle as well)

[aeronaut]

Ok, I got a line on a freshly built engine (by a well known local builder, Fletcher Made Horsepower, http://www.fletchermadehorsepower.com/).

S52, 0.020 over bore Mahle pistons, Sunbelt/epic stage 2 cams, vanos shimmed, S54 oil pump.
Recommended redline is 7200.
Builder is known for making very reliable engines and is saying this one should be around 270hp wheel.

You guys think Sunbelt/epic stage 2 cams, shimmed vanos, and 7200 redline, makes for a good combo?

[ScotcH]

That would be a great engine. You can easily tune that for lots of area under the curve. And n a couple years, you can add stuff to rev higher if you want.

[Yahweh]

Id so 100K S54 W/ Vanos rebuild, WPC rods bearings, fresh oil pump, reseal over a built s52.

- - - Updated - - -

You can run no Vanos shim if you have proper pistons.

[aeronaut]

Mahle OEM style pistons. This engine was built for a class.

- - - Updated - - -

That would be a great engine. You can easily tune that for lots of area under the curve. And n a couple years, you can add stuff to rev higher if you want.

One of my first questions to the builder, why not 7400 ?
(I know it has aftermarket valve springs, don't know which.)

[Yahweh]

Chris don't like those motors, understandably when the S54 is so much more reliable. And the old-school croud don't rev them out, which is understandable. Also if you find someone who came up with a recipe what works.., they are unlikely to change from it. I find of a lot of old school guy doing things in their old school ways. Things just work.

Plus its expensive to have motors blow and it doesn't look good as a builder / Tuner. When I was on the dyno with Randy @ Epic, once we got past 7400, he said you're on your own..

[aeronaut]

Chris don't like those motors, understandably when the S54 is so much more reliable. And the old-school croud don't rev them out, which is understandable. Also if you find someone who came up with a recipe what works.., they are unlikely to change from it. I find of a lot of old school guy doing things in their old school ways. Things just work.

Plus its expensive to have motors blow and it doesn't look good as a builder / Tuner. When I was on the dyno with Randy @ Epic, once we got past 7400, he said you're on your own..

LOL

Yea, when I've been talking to Chris, he's very much "but why not an S54".

The S52 I'm looking at was built by Chris, has zero hours, but being sold by the owner of the engine.

[aeronaut]

Well, after all that, I just committed to an S54 by FMH, he has a previous customer with an unused build that decided he's getting out of racing. ~350whp is what I'm told to expect.

Oh Boy, time to start ordering supporting parts.

[pbonsalb]

I’d take a 350 rwhp S54 over a 275 rwhp S52 as well. 50% more money or twice as much money?

[olemiss540]

Well, after all that, I just committed to an S54 by FMH, he has a previous customer with an unused build that decided he's getting out of racing. ~350whp is what I'm told to expect.

Oh Boy, time to start ordering supporting parts.

Lol..... You always keep us entertained!

You were already fast around a race track, now good luck gt3s.....

[aeronaut]

I’d take a 350 rwhp S54 over a 275 rwhp S52 as well. 50% more money or twice as much money?

Exactly 1.5x for JUST the S54 compared to the built S52. Add the extras needed to integrate the S54, and it goes up a bit.

- - - Updated - - -

Lol..... You always keep us entertained!

You were already fast around a race track, now good luck gt3s.....

Ha! I was 1:20's around summit main, this could get me into the 1:17's.

There's a lot of reasons to not do this. But damn I feel good about this.
S54 also has headroom for more HP. It's just money.

[ScotcH]

350rwhp is going to take a race gas I think ... what's under the valve cover?

[aeronaut]

I am told, all OEM parts. 93 Oct.

I'm not sure I'd believe it either, except a close friend has the exact same engine from FMH, and has dynoed it at 345 WHP.

(Although, he does have a 3.91 diff ratio)

[aeronaut]

Update, ScotcH is smart.
My friends 345rwhp is on 100 octane.
I'll probably run 93.

[ScotcH]

Yeah, not happening on stock parts ... unless you're on an ego dyno (ie, dynojet, lol). Our s54 with schrick cams and full top end build, on pump gas makes 325whp. 345 on race gas. But regardless, that's a good call. A niecly rebuilt stock s54 will run forever if not abused.

[aeronaut]

8000rpm, and run forever, are worth a lot to me.
I'll lower my rwhp expectations. But not my lap time expectations. lol

[Yahweh]

Stock S54's will hit 350WHP. I've done a few and one is for sale.

I prefer 100k doner, these motors always seem to last and burn less oil than built motors. WPC rod bearings, arp.. rebuild vanos / bolts, Epic headers, BW race e36 airbox, Proper Y pipe W/ smooth reducer into 3.5, 2 nice race mufflers (Passes sound) Stock ecu, epic alpha-N dyno tuned. 93 fuel. Repeatable.

I was trying to sell header back exhaust, but everyone I got from the shop was out of spec and had to fix them... The just must kept getting ff'd in-between builds..

[ScotcH]

Stock S54's will hit 350WHP. I've done a few and one is for sale.

I'd love to see a stock s52 with same mods on the same dyno, just to compare the numbers.

[Yahweh]

Good running “stock” S52 for Bmwcca IS 240 whp dynojet

[aeronaut]

Can an S54 with 12.5 compression ratio Mahle pistons run 93 octane?
(Also waiting for response from the builder.)

I'm not yet sure if high compression pistons were used in the build. Ug, forgot to ask.

[pbonsalb]

This may not be directly applicable because the engines and ECU differ, but S65 ran 12:1 with port fuel injection and could run on 91 or 93 but was known to not reach its timing target in really hot conditions even on 93. I ran water/meth on mine with a piggyback controller but that may not be an option for you. I doubt any Street driving gets a motor as hot as track driving so I would be inclined not to push the envelope on compression ratio to add another point to gain 2% power.

[aeronaut]

It's a pre-built engine, and I made the mistake of committing before asking pistons/compression used.
I've got an email in to the builder.

[pshooter]

It's more than just the pistons and static CR.
The cams and cam timing will play a big part.

Example: Retarding the intake cam 6 degrees dropped cranking compression from 210 to 170psi.

The BMW knock control is pretty good. Even some stock S52's will pull timing at times.
The quality and consistency of pump 93 is terrible. The percentage of ethanol is left up to the person filling the tanker.
Label on the pump says "May contain up to 10% ethanol".
VP MS93 is very consistent.

I've found S52's to be extremely sensitive and pull timing with increased compression via aftermarket pistons.
S54's are more tolerant.

I've started running a 50/50 mix of 93 and 100. That works out to 96 octane.
It allows full timing and on a higher compression build can be worth 20 hp.