using epic motorsport sport cams on 328is (m52)

[pbonsalb]

I’d guess very little added power. The benefit is that the power does not fall off as fast so you can stay in gear longer making power, which makes the car faster. It is area under the curve. These cams might make 25 rwhp over stock at 6700 (probably peak power), but 40 rwhp over stock at 7200 and 50 rwhp over stock at 7500. A stock cam car might be fastest if shifted at 6500, but the cammed car might be fastest if shifted at 7500.

[mai510394]

Thank you, I guess i'm just gonna save up then.

[pbonsalb]

Another option might be to sell the cams and the car and buy a car that is faster to start with. It is a pain to change springs and an even bigger pain to do it with the head installed. If you can DIY, it’s your time but if you can’t you are paying a lot of labor. Maybe look at E36 M3 or 128i or E46 330i or a turbo motor car like a 135i or 335i. Or swap in a good running S52 if you could DIY an engine swap. Too expensive to pay a shop — you are probably better off putting that sort of major parts and labor money towards a car that is already closer to what you want.

[mai510394]

nah, I'm not paying 15k for 200k mile bored stroked and cammed m52

[pbonsalb]

You have not revealed your skill set yet, but if you cannot DIY and tune you could have $5k into cams, springs, labor, tuning, and supporting mods that you probably can’t get back when you sell it. I have spent a lot of money trying to make my 99 M3 into the 911 Turbo that I could not afford when I bought the M3. If I had left the M3 alone and instead saved all the money I put into it over the next 5-6 years, I could have bought a used 911 Turbo.

[mai510394]

Oh this is probably as far as I will go with power, I never plan on selling the car, and I got the camshafts for an absolute steal, $200. So I might be doing this just a smidge cheaper than it usually is lmao. I will install the valve springs myself, I might have someone time the cams for me, and I will not do the tuning.

[ScotcH]

Oh this is probably as far as I will go with power, I never plan on selling the car, and I got the camshafts for an absolute steal, $200. So I might be doing this just a smidge cheaper than it usually is lmao. I will install the valve springs myself, I might have someone time the cams for me, and I will not do the tuning.

Cam timing is pretty easy ... 4* retard on the intake (but do check on the dyno)

Also ... you'll need to limit the VANSO travel on these. VAC has a shim for that.

[pbonsalb]

To me, installing the valve springs with the head on the motor in the car would be way harder than timing the cams. I could do it but I would not want to and it would take a long time. I sort of enjoy cam timing because it is more technical than repetitive, does not take very long, and is pretty easy.

[mai510394]

4 degrees retard, I'll remember that. And it's the 4mm vanos shim I'm guessing?

[pbonsalb]

I would use an 8mm washer when rebuilding the vanos. You can experiment with alternative cam timing. There is a member Someguy2800 who knows a lot about cams and these motors and 3D prints plastic cam blocks with altered cam timing. He may have a recommendation. I use his blocks for the Schrick 264/256 in my turbo fully built motor S52. Way easier than degree-ing. In my case, someone else with the same Schricks and a built turbo S52 had experimented with degree-ing so the cam blocks were not a guesstimate.

[ScotcH]

I would use an 8mm washer when rebuilding the vanos. You can experiment with alternative cam timing. There is a member Someguy2800 who knows a lot about cams and these motors and 3D prints plastic cam blocks with altered cam timing. He may have a recommendation. I use his blocks for the Schrick 264/256 in my turbo fully built motor S52. Way easier than degree-ing. In my case, someone else with the same Schricks and a built turbo S52 had experimented with degree-ing so the cam blocks were not a guesstimate.

Nice! That's probably the right way to go I'm not that fancy ... I used an angle finder app on my phone to move the cam from factory, lol. Also, if you retard the intake, the 4mm shim will be fine ... maybe even at 0 timing.

Edit: This is the effect of adjusting the intake cam (s52 engine with 290/288 cat cams, but same similar concept to the sunbelts). Green is -4, blue is 0

dyno-s52-catcams.jpg

[pbonsalb]

I thought the stock M52 pistons were flat top? The S52 have valve reliefs, but maybe that is because they stick out of the deck? It does not appear that the OP is going to pull the head and use clay to test clearance. Since you have tested alternative timing specs, the OP could get printed blocks with stock exhaust timing and -4 intake. The OP has a street car and is likely to spend 99% of his driving time at 6000 rpm or less so I wonder whether he really wants to trade all that torque for a little more power from 6000-7500.

[ScotcH]

I thought the stock M52 pistons were flat top? The S52 have valve reliefs, but maybe that is because they stick out of the deck? It does not appear that the OP is going to pull the head and use clay to test clearance. Since you have tested alternative timing specs, the OP could get printed blocks with stock exhaust timing and -4 intake. The OP has a street car and is likely to spend 99% of his driving time at 6000 rpm or less so I wonder whether he really wants to trade all that torque for a little more power from 6000-7500.

Yeah, if this is mostly a street car, then I agree ... set them at 0 and it should be good for a bit more lower end grunt. For our race engines, we spend all our time above 5000 rpm, so it makes sense to raise the power band up top for up shifts that drop right into the sweet spot.

[aeronaut]

Timely ish thread, I just found a Fletcher built zero hours S52 with these cams.
I know, everyone says S54. But...S52, plug and play.

[pbonsalb]

What I like about the S54 is that you can get close to 400 rwhp out if it if fully modded and tuned, and make power to 8000 rpm. In a 3000 lb E36, that would entertain me. But going from 300 to 400 rwhp probably costs twice as much as going from 200 to 300 rwhp.

[aeronaut]

Yep!
I have "turn-key" prices for an S52 built to 300hp (crank) and an S54 built to 400hp (crank), and it's about 1.7-1.8x for the S54.
And yea, 8100rpm is enticing for the reasons discussed prior.
But that's the way everything is in this hobby, the closer you get to the pointy end, cost goes up exponentially for everything.

[pbonsalb]

I hope the OP’s car is not an automatic.

[Rugbyfan]

PM sent to the OP. I’m trying to trade street cams for track cams (weekend beater will move to 99% track). Thanks!

[mai510394]

I hope the OP’s car is not an automatic.

sorry for leaving all of you hanging, just got back from my christmas vacation. It actually is an automatic lmao but I am getting parts to manual swap it, I already have the transmission, linkage and driveshaft. Also thank you for all the info in timing and degreeing

[pbonsalb]

Any cams more serious than S52 in an M52 would not be a good choice for an automatic. The tune would also be different should you attempt to tune the Epic cams for an auto versus manual. I’d do the manual swap before the cams. The differential in the 328i auto trans E36 is not a great choice for a manual swap so I would change that as well. As is, it will be ver short. With the Epic cams and 7500 rpm limit, it might be OK but you will probably be running 4000-4500 rpm at 80 mph on the highway — not much fun to me.

[mai510394]

yes I am swapping it first