M62 Crankshaft Wobble

**stitch2k1** · 11-26-2022, 10:23 PM

So first forum post, here and I'm already off to a great start. Anyway, howdy. I've got a 2000 540i wagon with an M62 in it (no surprise), and I've got severe wobble on the crankshaft. I picked this thing up for very cheap, because it got parked from the harmonic balancer coming off the hub (two years ago), and flying around in there breaking and damaging a bunch of stuff. I got it with a replacement (used) hub and harmonic balancer.

I have been slowly fixing things on it and got to changing the hub a few days ago. With everything swapped out I was still getting some vibration so I checked it out and saw the harmonic balancer had some wobble, so I removed it and watched the crankshaft and noticed a lot of wobble in it. I would say maybe 1mm. I can't grab and physically wiggle the crank, so I don't know if I want to say I have a main bearing failure (or it got bent somehow, that seems unrealistic), but I'm not really sure. A pretty knowledgeable (on E39s and the M62/S62) said to me I need to replace the crank/motor, but I'm hoping there's other ideas on what this might be. There was no resistance when I pulled the old hub off and put the replacement one on, it was like butter. The seal on the timing cover also seems to be perfectly in tact.

I did not see any metal in the oil when I changed it (ironically, right before I noticed all this stuff). I did find some tiny glitter in the oil filter on the cap but I don't want to say for sure it's making metal. Concerned it's a tell tell sign, although I have no knocking noise aside from the timing chain clatter (a sign they need replacement, which is another mess).

I paid $600 for this thing, and have less than $1,500 in it in total. If I have to pull off what parts I've changed, and sell this thing off I can afford to. I would just hate to let it get parted since it's still a good car. I was beyond impressed seeing this thing come back to life after sitting for over a year.

Sidenote: I am long term looking for an alpine white over black E39 wagon, preferably a 540i, to match my #1 car (an alpine white 944). So if anyone knows of any for sale in the states... I am indeed nominally a Porsche guy.

Thanks in advance for any help. Hopefully this isn't the end of the world for this thing.

---EDIT---

Some video clips of it I uploaded to Streamable

1: https://streamable.com/az0fv3
2: https://streamable.com/jgpc6q
3: https://streamable.com/6f9uoe

---EDIT 2---

Went out to look at it while on the phone with somebody, and it occurred to me that while I drove it (about 5 miles so far) around my neighborhood I never had any issues with it. Never felt like the motor was gonna rip itself apart. It also occurred to me that if there was a massive issue it would've destroyed the oil seal on the timing cover, and it'd be spewing out oil which it isn't. (Yes, it is covered in a lot of grime, but that is all old not new)

**MotorMouth93** · 11-26-2022, 10:29 PM

Looks like the nose of the crankshaft got bent somehow. That's a pretty crazy failure I'm surprised it doesn't sound way worse than it does. I'd take the hub off just to be sure but it looks like the bolt in the middle is moving all over too.

But yeah, that motor is probably not worth repairing. You'll likely spend more than you've got into the car just on gaskets and timing components, not counting a crankshaft, main bearings, rod bearings, and rod bolts. I've got a good M62 crankshaft sitting in my garage you can have if you feel like attempting open heart surgery on it though.

You could also try to source a used M62, those are generally under $1000.

**stitch2k1** · 11-26-2022, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by MotorMouth93

Looks like the nose of the crankshaft got bent somehow. That's a pretty crazy failure I'm surprised it doesn't sound way worse than it does. I'd take the hub off just to be sure but it looks like the bolt in the middle is moving all over too.

I'm not entirely convinced it's possible to bend it. I would think the force necessary would just break it out right. Plus I've seen multiple threads of people having these hubs break or dampers come free, and they seem to be fine? Edit: Also as above in the first post I already changed the hub. No issues there, it's keyed right. I used a torque multiplier and a crankshaft counter-hold tool from Baum. It was torqued 100nm +60*+60*+30* per the book.

Originally Posted by MotorMouth93

But yeah, that motor is probably not worth repairing. You'll likely spend more than you've got into the car just on gaskets and timing components, not counting a crankshaft, main bearings, rod bearings, and rod bolts.

That's more accurately how this entire car is tragically. The interior is rough but tolerable for me, since it's a utility car. Paint is shiny but has horizontal crazing through it in the paint (clearcoat is fine).

Originally Posted by MotorMouth93

I've got a good M62 crankshaft sitting in my garage you can have if you feel like attempting open heart surgery on it though.

Thanks, I've got a buddy locally who I can probably grab a crankshaft from.

Originally Posted by MotorMouth93

You could also try to source a used M62, those are generally under $1000.

I am worried that's equally a can of worms, because of the "While you're in there" mentality. And then add finding one with similar or less miles, and good history. Then slap on the cost of timing chain guides, and I become very concerned very quickly that because of the rest of this car's condition it becomes a net loss.

**wagons ho** · 11-27-2022, 05:12 AM

Sounds like you have the situation pretty well covered. Crank snouts bent. I got free cranks, they have free cranks, everyone has free cranks.
The only question is, does the wagon have you impressed enough to do the crank swap (engine swap) to make a reliable parts hauler out of it?
For the dedicated wagonista, it would be a yes.
If you start applying financial logic to the equation, better get a Toyota to go with your Porsche.
It's not a net loss if you are driving it.

**ross1** · 11-27-2022, 06:59 AM

Are you sure the hub and balancer are correctly attached?? I have a hard time thinking of a scenario that would bend the crank snout that wouldn't also destroy the front end of the car. I'm sure stranger things have happened though.
A thought based on my anecdotal experience.
You mention a "timing chain noise". Are certain it is T-chain?
I once had a crankshaft break clean in two at the #1 and 2 rod journal. The only thing holding it together was the connecting rods. It ran just fine but did make an odd noise, not what one would recognize as a knock but there was a not so subtle rattle going on. The crank snout had a wobble about like yours and also some fore/aft movement which was the tell.

If the crank is in one piece I would expect it to eventually shake another balancer to death if you run it and you can forget about the front seal ever being effective.
Net effect is to repair it will be engine out so maybe run it until it fails.

**JimLev** · 11-27-2022, 09:05 AM

Hard to imagine that just the snout would be bent but from your video it doesn’t look good.
Have you pulled off the crank flange yet to look at the snout at the oil seal while running?
If the car was a manual and someone sidestepped the clutch at 6K RPM I could see the possibility of some crank damage.

**ross1** · 11-27-2022, 09:28 AM

"If the car was a manual and someone sidestepped the clutch at 6K RPM I could see the possibility of some crank damage."
Take it from somebody who has done just that countless times. It will damage plenty of other things but I never hurt a crank doing it.
The snout on those cranks is about a mile long so I could imagine an impact doing this but it would have to be a very hard one indeed.

**stitch2k1** · 11-27-2022, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by wagons ho

Sounds like you have the situation pretty well covered. Crank snouts bent. I got free cranks, they have free cranks, everyone has free cranks.
The only question is, does the wagon have you impressed enough to do the crank swap (engine swap) to make a reliable parts hauler out of it?For the dedicated wagonista, it would be a yes.

I have an E91 (328xi) thatÂ’s been a good parts hauler and an engine hauler, picked up a 944 motor and a old air cooled 911 motor with it actually. I went to the E39 because itÂ’d be a much better parts hauler, and I can use it to tow things.

Originally Posted by wagons ho

If you start applying financial logic to the equation, better get a Toyota to go with your Porsche.

Believe it or not, my 944S2 has been my cheapest car to own by a large margin.

Originally Posted by wagons ho

It's not a net loss if you are driving it.

That is true. I had just hoped this project would benefit me in experience and some profit to go towards a Â‘KeeperÂ’ wagon.