School a newbie on headers for a track car please

[Livetopedal]

Hi All, relatively new here, reading/learning a lot. Planning winter projects for my (fairly new to me) track car and need some advice regarding headers. There are a lot of great threads but most are quite old and there may be more current products, etc.
Some basic info:
‘98 fern green coupe, road legal (no emissions in PA) but main use is HPDE.
S52, refreshed 8k miles ago:
M50 manifold with the usual 3.5” intake
24 lb injectors with Shark performance software
Schrick cams (264/256)
VAC stage 2 head work with upgraded valve springs
fan delete, Z3M radiator
3.64 diff
combo of poly and solid mounts all around
ast 4100 coilovers, hyperco springs 550f/650r
stripped interior, race seats, Kirk bolt-in bar, harnesses
stock exhaust through to the cats, UUC cat-back exhaust
(Yes, I absolutely LOVE this car!)


Next step, I think, is headers. So here are my questions:

• supersprint vs. VAC shorties with high flow cats (nicely priced currently!) pros/cons?
• RMS a viable alternative? Any others?
• Go SAP sim and O2 sensor mimics or reflash the DME (http://e36-electronic.com/)?

Thanks for your patience with a newbie!

[MauiM3Mania]

Post has been moved to the Track, Auto-X & Drag Racing sub-forum.

[pbonsalb]

I’d go long tube headers and matching midpipe. Do the 02 sim as part of a custom tune to match the mods.

For a while, I ran RMS headers custom connected to a Supersprint Euro X pipe and Supersprint Euro rear exhaust. Mating the RMS headers required hacking up the SS midpipe. Ideally use SS Euro size headers that fit the S52. Raceland used to sell copies of the Euro SS headers. Maybe they still do. At one point I saw a copy of a Euro SS midpipe that would connect to a USA rear exhaust but have not seen that part in years. The Euro SS stuff is bigger and connects differently. The US and Euro stuff does not mix and match—must be all one or all the other.

You could also try more aggressive cams. The Schrick 264/256 are mild but there seems to be zero bottom end loss. The 276/270 would bump the power up.

[aeronaut]

What pbonsalb said (and definitely NOT the VAC shorties).
Get any of the SS replicas rather than pay top dollar. (Understanding that some of the reps may need slight fitment tweaks.) Looks like Raceland no longer sells headers?!

Is it a track only car? If so, dump the cats.

[pshooter]

I have had good results with the racelands and made good power with them.
I have however had to open the flange holes on every set I've installed to get them to bolt up.

For the difference in cost it's a small price to pay.

[aeronaut]

I have had good results with the racelands and made good power with them.
I have however had to open the flange holes on every set I've installed to get them to bolt up.

For the difference in cost it's a small price to pay.

On my racelands, the holes lined up, but a little extra clearance (can you say BALL PEEN) was needed near the transmission.
They don't seem listed on raceland's web page.

[olemiss540]

Agree entirely with the stainless knockoff longtubes. Upgrade the manifold/head mounting bolts with ones you can install via torx bit and all new gaskets. Cats �� optional.........

[Livetopedal]

Good input! Thx. So definitely long tubes, no cats. Probably SAP sim. Probably O2 mimics.
raceland doesn’t seem to sell them anymore.
anyone tried aFe?
Any thoughts on these? https://www.ebay.com/itm/12556893975...3ABFBM-KnLhoBh

Thanks!

[circuit.heart]

Devil's advocate: on a track car, you'll be doing a lot more maintenance than your usual road car. Longtubes in an E36 are ass to install and remove. You could run the factory M52/S52 manifolds coupled to a Bimmerworld Y-pipe and have the same power as longtube knockoffs with none of the maintenance nightmare.

[Livetopedal]

That’s an intriguing idea. I assume you are referring to this:
https://www.bimmerworld.com/BimmerWo...Magnaflow.html

Currently on sale too.

[Steage]

Devil's advocate: on a track car, you'll be doing a lot more maintenance than your usual road car. Longtubes in an E36 are ass to install and remove. You could run the factory M52/S52 manifolds coupled to a Bimmerworld Y-pipe and have the same power as longtube knockoffs with none of the maintenance nightmare.

I agree.

When I was doing my head gasket I did a lot of research trying to convince myself to not put the factory manifolds back on… and I ended up putting them back on.

Given the cost and complications and negligible hp benefit I decided to not pay for a headache.

[aeronaut]

The BW y-pipe is a good improvement over stock, I ran it for a few years.

I don't get the "maintenance nightmare" comment. Installing SS reps is a one-time "headache" to get it matched to a mid-pipe, with more power above 5000rpm, and less weight. I can have my mid-pipe out in 5 minutes. Headers off (if needed) take the same time as OEM headers. Removing the headers isn't needed for any regular or even yearly type of maintenance.

- - - Updated - - -

UPDATE, but...the y-pipe also requires a custom mid-pipe, so.

Here's the y pipe
https://www.bimmerworld.com/BimmerWo...e-Version.html

[olemiss540]

Agreed. SS headers weren't bad at all to remove or reinstall but maybe I am forgetting things since it's been awhile.

[circuit.heart]

Headers off (if needed) take the same time as OEM headers. Removing the headers isn't needed for any regular or even yearly type of maintenance.

I've cracked Raceland headers twice, so they definitely had to come out. In my case the E34 chassis makes access to the nuts easy, but the big primaries meant that some of the nuts were so tight to the tube that I had to cut off the flange and use an open-ended box wrench to spin the nut on 1/6 of a turn at a time. No thin-wall socket would fit between the hex and the tube. That is a maintenance nightmare.

If you used eBay SS longtubes they have smaller primaries so it's a non-issue. It's such a shame as the Raceland headers made good power and heavenly sounds.

[aeronaut]

I've cracked Raceland headers twice, so they definitely had to come out. In my case the E34 chassis makes access to the nuts easy, but the big primaries meant that some of the nuts were so tight to the tube that I had to cut off the flange and use an open-ended box wrench to spin the nut on 1/6 of a turn at a time. No thin-wall socket would fit between the hex and the tube. That is a maintenance nightmare.

If you used eBay SS longtubes they have smaller primaries so it's a non-issue. It's such a shame as the Raceland headers made good power and heavenly sounds.

If a bolt is that hard to get to, and you need to get to it often (I still don't understand why this is considered a maintenance issue), then replace the hex bolt with a torx (or other special) headed bolt.

[circuit.heart]

If a bolt is that hard to get to, and you need to get to it often (I still don't understand why this is considered a maintenance issue), then replace the hex bolt with a torx (or other special) headed bolt.

You bolt your headers to the head instead of using studs and copper nuts?

[aeronaut]

You bolt your headers to the head instead of using studs and copper nuts?

Nope, sorry, I see you were talking about the header nuts.
I've never had a problem with those, BUT, I have nothing in the way on that side (no A/C hoses, washer fluid reservoir, or whatever else is there on OEM).
I can easily reach all but 4 (I think) with a socket (and battery powered ratchet), and then those 4 with a ratcheting box end.

[zemaestro]

We are producing M52 to S54 header adapters. They mate to my CNC exhaust port. There are two sizes one designed around Bimmerworld stepped and one that will mate to the larger OD OBX 6-1 units. Dyno results coming in March.

[ScotcH]

People ... Don't use the copper nuts on header studs ... just use the M7 nuts that are the same as the cam caps. These are not locking, so you just crack them with an 11mm wrench or socket, and spin off (or on) by hand. No needs to kill your self one click at a time with the copper ones. Also, as suggested, upgrade to the e90 studs with the torx end. They work well in case you need R&R the studs.

We've been doing this on all our race engines for 10 years now ... can get headers on/off in 20 min.

And the Racelands (if you can find them) are awesome for top end power. They are exact Euro SuperSprint copies (we've had both).

[aeronaut]

People ... Don't use the copper nuts on header studs ... just use the M7 nuts that are the same as the cam caps. These are not locking, so you just crack them with an 11mm wrench or socket, and spin off (or on) by hand. No needs to kill your self one click at a time with the copper ones. Also, as suggested, upgrade to the e90 studs with the torx end. They work well in case you need R&R the studs.

We've been doing this on all our race engines for 10 years now ... can get headers on/off in 20 min.

And the Racelands (if you can find them) are awesome for top end power. They are exact Euro SuperSprint copies (we've had both).

Great stuff Scotch! The e90 studs are awesome.
I've been using the copper nuts, but with my battery powered ratchet (and no accessories in the way) can easily get to all but 4 of them.
I'll try the regular nuts on next build! (Soon.)

I'd also add, use anti-seize.

[ScotcH]

I'd also add, use anti-seize.

Never once had to ... these are only 15nm ... but again, ours are race only cars. they never see street use

[aeronaut]

Never once had to ... these are only 15nm ... but again, ours are race only cars. they never see street use

Well, I add anti-seize assuming it'll be 50k mi before I need to remove the header and you're right in reality it's 6 months. lol.