R&R cylinder heads of M62TU engine in the car (BMW E39 540i)

[wagons ho]

I love the blow by blow, like we've never done this before.
Just think how easy this would be on the floor after you pulled it.
For example, power steering would have been disconnected at the cooler, and steering box. Then you could walk right up to the engine and remove all that.
On to your heads. There has to be an oil supply on the passenger side. If there wasn't, how would your lifters and vanos had oil? Hint, pull head gaskets, and they are in different spots. The check valve is below a rubber compression spacer.
Those 4 wells in the head, as you call them are fixture jig holes for the manufacturing process.

[R Shaffner]

Yes, the tool attaches to the hub. The extension on the tool needs to hit something so it keeps the crank from spinning while you undo the Jesus bolt. (That tool's extension looks kinds short, so I think you'll probably need to put a long bolt part-way in somewhere and have the extension hit it. Or perhaps put a pipe over that part of the tool to extend it further.)

And yes, you loosen the bolt with a long breaker bar and an extension, like a metal pipe. Or some have said they used a powerful impact. Then with the bolt off you can remove the hub and the LTC.

Since you want to clean the pistons, you'll probably want to turn the crank. To do that you can temporarily replace the hub and bolt, and use the bolt to turn the crank. But don't tighten the bolt any more than needed to turn the crank. Then once you're done cleaning the pistons, you can turn the crank to TDC and insert the pin to hold it there. (The pin is strong enough to let you remove the bolt if you've already loosened it and just used it to turn the crank.)

Or you can clean the pistons before removing the hub and LTC, in which case you wouldn't have to remove the hub, put it on, and remove it again.

[Chedley]

.....
And chedley, do not scrape the block surface!!!
Lacquer thinner or solvent only to remove the gasket black residue.
Any nicks in block deck will prevent MLS head gasket from floating on expansion and contraction.
Yes, the gasket moves even when clamped.
20ft lbs plus 80° twice is only 62 ft lbs of final torque. Gasket requires aluminum block expansion to reach operating torque load.
.....

@Wagons Ho et al --> Another question about the gasket :
The head gaskets of both banks are still intact, dry, clean but stuck to the engine block. Do I still have to remove the gasket, clean the surface and replace it -with the 0.3 mm thicker gasket ? or can I just clean and service the heads, and reinstall them on it ??
Of course, I will replace all the head bolts either way, before torquing.

....
Or you can clean the pistons before removing the hub and LTC, in which case you wouldn't have to remove the hub, put it on, and remove it again.

That is how I am proceeding. Cleaning up the pistons -now that the camshafts and heads are out - then removing the Jesus bolt, hub and lower timing cover (LTC)...

[JimLev]

You CAN’T reuse the old head gaskets.
If the shop mills the head surface then you could use a thicker gasket to make up for when they shaved off.

[Chedley]

Exactly..
I am taking then heads to the machine shop tomorrow morning, for cleaning/valves checking, etc.....and I can ask them NOT to mill the head surface. Just clean it.
It is not the $$ cost of the gasket that I am trying to shave here. But if the current original gasket is well seated, fine and sealing well, why replace it ? It makes re-installation of the heads much easier, no ?!
That is what I am wondering.....

[pleiades]

Exactly..
I am taking then heads to the machine shop tomorrow morning, for cleaning/valves checking, etc.....and I can ask them NOT to mill the head surface. Just clean it.
It is not the $$ cost of the gasket that I am trying to shave here. But if the current original gasket is well seated, fine and sealing well, why replace it ? It makes re-installation of the heads much easier, no ?!
That is what I am wondering.....

The head gaskets are compromised the instant you remove the heads. Never use old ones, as they will never be "sealing well" again.

Unless you want to be doing this job over ...

[JimLev]

GG would be going ballistic reading this thread.
If the surface of the heads are flat within spec they don’t need to be milled.
Let the shop decide what’s best.

DO NOT RE-USE THE OLD HEAD GASKETS, THEY WON’T SEAL.

[Jason5driver]

gg would be going ballistic reading this thread.
If the surface of the heads are flat within spec they don’t need to me milled.
Let the shop decide what’s best.

Do not re-use the old head gaskets, they won’t seal.

lol !

[computiNATEor]

Exactly..
I am taking then heads to the machine shop tomorrow morning, for cleaning/valves checking, etc.....and I can ask them NOT to mill the head surface. Just clean it.
It is not the $$ cost of the gasket that I am trying to shave here. But if the current original gasket is well seated, fine and sealing well, why replace it ? It makes re-installation of the heads much easier, no ?!
That is what I am wondering.....

YOU CANNOT REUSE HEAD GASKETS.

It will not seal at all. You will have oil in your coolant, coolant in your oil, oil in your combustion chambers, and coolant in your exhaust.

Headgaskets are one-time use. Would you reuse a condom? A rear main seal? A tampon?

[JimLev]

LOL, good one Nate.

[ross1]

Exactly..
I am taking then heads to the machine shop tomorrow morning, for cleaning/valves checking, etc.....and I can ask them NOT to mill the head surface. Just clean it.
It is not the $$ cost of the gasket that I am trying to shave here. But if the current original gasket is well seated, fine and sealing well, why replace it ? It makes re-installation of the heads much easier, no ?!
That is what I am wondering.....

Oh, my.
I see others have addressed the gaskets. Have the machine shop check the heads for flatness, if not within spec. have them machine them flat. If they are not you will have sealing problems.
You have opened, the hard way, a large can of worms here. If you ever manage to get this together again it would be really disappointing to see it fail for want of a fresh gasket or refusal to spend a few $$ to resurface the heads.


- - - Updated - - -

Would you reuse a condom?

Turn them inside out?

[kallekula]

This thread is a joke

[MotorMouth93]

Pay close attention to the cylinder head surface near the dowel pins. In the photo you posted it looks like the head got dragged along the dowel and gouged it up. Depending on where the damage is this can result in the head needing surfacing to keep it from leaking.

[Bmwe39528i1998]

Haha no matter what, I feel Chedley deserves some respect for his determination
Pulling the head and taking apart M62TU inside the vehicle, not knowing how to do if, would have deterred many
I'm sure many would have junked the car or would've replaced the engine by a shop...
I've never done it myself, but from reading this thread I would definitely be taking the engine and transmission out to do all the other seals etc.
It seems it would've saved both time and energy...
The guides or course need to be done, it's clear that the tensioner in practice won't make any serious difference to their longevity. So at least that debate is settled for good.
Had this happened to me, and I don't let things go lightly, I would've junked the engine, bought an already used one for $500, serviced it, i.e. replaced the chains, guides, seals, all the hard to reach parts, and then installed it into the car.
With how much time and effort went into this, I think it would've been worth it to overcome the fear of removing the engine/tranny for the first time by yourself.
Chedley good luck to you and I hope this car runs when put together!

[BimmerBreaker]

Not sure why re-using the old HG's (which is a big no-no, lol) would even simplify the installation of the heads. The gaskets are held in place by dowels on the block

Pulling the head and taking apart M62TU inside the vehicle, not knowing how to do if, would have deterred many

This is only true because most people have the sense to simply remove the engine from the car. It simplifies everything else about this process to have the engine out of the car. But if nothing else it does make for interesting reading to watch someone do it this way

[kallekula]

I once did a head job on a Volvo S80 with double turbos. I regretted dearly that I didn’t just pull the engine. Im never doing that job again. The bill for the customer was $7200.

[Nfs021]

Turn them inside out?

Rinse them off, re-lube, good as new...

Seriously Ched. Spend around $200 for new head gaskets. Or reuse the old ones and suffer a major catastrophe later....then get the lube for that repair bill.

[Chedley]

Alright guys, I got it. OK. New 0.3 mm thicker head gaskets have been ordered. Also, new head bolts, and new jesus bolt too.

As to the valves, well, the machine shop had a first look at the heads and confirmed that Bank-1 valves are intact. But Bank-2 -the one that failed the leak-down test- may have a couple bent valves. They will do a full scale valves job and let me know. After head cleaning and resurfacing, they also want also to reinstall the camshafts and tappets, and put the heads thru some test machine. After servicing, they promised heads as good as new.

Now and meanwhile, the thing that I want to check is the possibility of scored bores in the cylinders where bent vent valves are found if any. ( Issue raised by Wagons Ho in posting #33 of https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...efaste-!/page2 )

Question:
Is that a real possibility ? Anyone experienced it ?? How to check or test for it ?? and how to fix it if found???

[JimLev]

Chedley, is this place familiar with this engine? If they are going to put the cams back in make sure they know that the cam caps are labeled as to the proper location they fit on to the cam journals. There are no markings on the heads, it’s just on the caps, so they need to know what they are doing.

Scored bores…very difficult to tell unless you take the piston out and look at the top ring, is it free to move or not?
Look at the top of the pistons that kissed the valves, do you see any indications of damage to the piston top?
Look at the cylinder walls, if they are now scored it’s too late.
I’ll dig up a pic of the top showing the valve pockets, I may have some measurements on how close the outer edge of the valve pocket is to the ring lands.

Philly may have his old piston still kicking around the garage for a paper weight. Could also make a good conversation piece on the living room coffee table, lol.

[seagreen323i]

Cut the guy some slack, you think we all started out knowing exactly what we are doing. I sure didn't, but here I am doing timing chains and dropping subframes. Porting wastegates and cylinder heads.

Basically the main issue with reusing a headgasket is the fire ring. Once it's crushed and you Un crush it, it'll never seal right again. That's included if you torque down a fresh set of headgaskets and never even fire up the motor.

The comment about why arp studs don't work on aluminum engines. I've seen many turbo m54s use arp headstuds and hold 400 hp, that's kinda what you do. Thicker hg and arp head studs.



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[Chedley]

Chedley, is this place familiar with this engine? If they are going to put the cams back in make sure they know that the cam caps are labeled as to the proper location they fit on to the cam journals.
.....
.

So, when I removed the camshafts and caps, I put them on a cardboard and stored the caps of each cam in exactly the order and orientation as they were before removal. (See pic).

So I took the heads and that pictured box to the shop and reinstalled the cams and their respective caps in the exact location and orientation as they were before removal. Though I did not torque the nuts on the caps. Just screwed them finger tight.
Is that the correct way of fitting the caps on the cams journals ?

And I have not given them the tappets yet. The tappets are interchangeable, right -like spark plugs? I mean, after cleaning it, you do not have to put back each tappet (or spark plug) in exactly the same hole location from where you removed it ??

[ross1]

Lifters should remain the their original bores. This is another example of parts "wearing in" together.
If you have a scored cylinder bore you at the very least will have oil burning problems. NO way to repair in situ and few economically feasible options even with the engine out.
I still advise you to figure a way to remove that engine. You've already put up a mighty struggle just to remove those heads. Installation is an entirely different matter. Surfaces and gasket must be pristine, head needs to dropped on without dragging them around on the gasket, you need ample room for the devices needed to properly fasten(tighten) the head bolts, there is no room for error when timing the cams. Installing the cams (if they haven't already cracked from improper removal) requires either a special tool or a very tedious procedure to avoid breaking them, even more tedious when in situ.
ALL of this is going to be far more difficult than unscrewing the trans(or not), attaching a chain and lifting that poor lump out and onto a stand to be worked on.
Best to know what it is you don't know before embarking on such a task.
Good luck

[JimLev]

Technically the lifters should go back into the same holes. It's not the end of the world if they don't.

Maybe you can detect some top piston damage to indicate what Wagons mentioned.
Here's a piston from an overheated 540tu engine and some measurements. This guy was on the 15K mile oil change programand probably used cheap gas.
The block became the base for a glass top coffee table. 8 bores to hold wine bottles!

Cam_12a.JPG

PistonDWG.JPG

[ross1]

Technically the lifters should go back into the same holes. It's not the end of the world if they don't.

Agreed, not the end of the world but if they suddenly are noisy...............

[MotorMouth93]

Hydraulic lifter buckets in DOHC engines like this don't really wear in together. As long as the lifters and cams aren't worn out, you can put the buckets in randomly and be just fine.