Harmonic Balancer Going Bad?

[FireTumbleweed]

I've noticed what I perceive as a new shake when idling (felt in stick shift/steering wheel/placing hand on engine cover). The shake is consistent and high frequency, no noise associated. No codes are present and the car runs great. When accessories are shutoff, the shake is reduced but not eliminated. An increase in RPM eliminates the feeling. I'm pretty sure it increases when I turn on the A/C (i.e load introduced). I've recently replaced the front aux fan but through testing that is not providing the shakes. When I get some free time I'll crawl under and DC both belts individually to see if the shake is different.

In searching for info I haven't found much in the way of issues with the balancer going bad. Is this an uncommon thing to happen or just something nobody cares to write about?

Thanks...

[wagons ho]

I'm guessing you're vehicle info is correct, 530 manual?
I haven't see much problem with balancers, although I'm primarily a v8 guy.
But an old, high miles dual mass flywheel can get a little shaky.
Hard to measure the slop with the bellhousing having no inspection cover.

[FireTumbleweed]

Yes, 530i manual.

Clutch/flywheel was just replaced. I didn't notice the vibration then. It seems to have started the last few weeks. Hopefully when I get to removing the belts it'll give me more clues.

[JimLev]

When you get the belts off grab the OD of the HB and see if you can forcefully rock it.

[Toby B]

both rotationally and axially.

The rubber does change over time, but de- bonding is the usual catastrophic failure mode.

the other vibe- thing is the motor mounts collapsing. On the M54s E39's I forget- are they
viscoelastic? Those can leak...

Or the perennial 'something touching the body' but that usually makes more noise, too.

t
feels like a diesel

[edjack]

Have you considered the belt idler/tensioner pulleys?

[CPHES]

If the Harmonic balancer is multi piece - like the Mini, with a rubber compressed part, then it can fail. The M62 / 540 cars don’t have that issue. I am not familiar enough with the I6. The M73 is one piece.

[FireTumbleweed]

Motor mounts were replaced a few months ago along w/oil pan gasket, clutch etc...I did not notice this after that large job so unless something came loose and don't think it is related.

Idler pulley is only a a couple of years old but I'll check all the spinning parts when I remove the belts.

Hopefully will get to it in the next week or so, time....never enough of it.

A/C compressor is also less than a year old, but the vibration definitely increases when the A/C is switched on and off. I can't see anything out of the ordinary when it is spinning, but the extra load on the engine make the vibration more noticeable. I think I'll try and narrow down the RPMs when it is felt.

Just to clarify, the vibration can be felt in the stick and the steering wheel, also noticeable by placing my hand on the engine cover. It is very consistent/steady. Disappears when the rpm are increased even a little. Just a steady low "bbzzzzzzzzzz" vibration but obviously not that sound.

I almost want a code to get thrown to steer me towards something.... arg...

This is what it looks like, not sure if it is multipiece..

open-uri20150226-17658-17yaao3_.jpg

[CPHES]

That looks multi piece - see that bump ring - it’s rubber sandwiched in between the center and outer

[KeysCoupe]

Valve cover gasket leaking oil into spark plug recess? Shorts out firing of the plug causing miss fire = shaking. A couple hundred rpm higher, things smooth out.
I haven’t seen a balancer go bad/slip, unless its been oil-soaked for a while.
-Donny

[FireTumbleweed]

Still trying to track down this annoying vibration. Couldn't tell much from the HB, before I go w/a new one I'm going to try and eliminate stuff until hopefully the vibration is no longer there. I'm going to start with the Fan Clutch.

I've read about people deleting the fan with no issues. I'm not that brave to do it continuously, but to see if it is the culprit I'm game to do it temporarily. Currently max 50 degrees here. Using test #7 on the OBC at what temp I should I start to be concerned regarding overheating? Before I remove the fan, I'll look to see what temp my car bounces around at under normal conditions just for reference.

[ross1]

Still trying to track down this annoying vibration. Couldn't tell much from the HB, before I go w/a new one I'm going to try and eliminate stuff until hopefully the vibration is no longer there. I'm going to start with the Fan Clutch.

I've read about people deleting the fan with no issues. I'm not that brave to do it continuously, but to see if it is the culprit I'm game to do it temporarily. Currently max 50 degrees here. Using test #7 on the OBC at what temp I should I start to be concerned regarding overheating? Before I remove the fan, I'll look to see what temp my car bounces around at under normal conditions just for reference.

Good place to start. Just remove it and run without, watching temps of course.
I had one fail in a similar manner.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ssume-anything

The bearing was bad allowing the fan to rotate in an eccentric path. Mine went quickly, was REAL bad and shook hard. I was surprised it didn't grenade the fan.

In the unlikely event that you do need a balancer let me know. I've recently dismantled an engine and have one here.

[FireTumbleweed]

Well I think I tracked down at least one of the issues. The vibration would be significantly increased when under extra load (i.e. when the AC cycled on or I turned the heated seats on putting load on the alternator). I wound up dc the AC belt and drove for while and the vibration was still there (tested by adding load to the alternator). I took off the main belt and ran the car for a bit (vibrations were always at idle and more noticeable when cold). Noticed the pulley on the WP had a bit shake to it. Found out 3 of the bolt were slightly loose . I guess when the belt was attached it put enough tension to prevent the eye from seeing it. Snugged these down (the pulley is not cracked) and the vibrations decreased probably 75% after driving it for a couple of weeks. Still seem like there's still a bit of vibration.

When the main belt was off I tried flexing the HB and it really didn't move. I also tried moving the WP shaft (with the now tightened pulley) and it had very slight vertical movement. Click/click. Very minute. So the next time I need to do some work I think I'll replace the WP while I'm at it. The current one is the improved Saleri which FCP now carries. Sadly I did not buy the previous one from them.

[ross1]

Well I think I tracked down at least one of the issues. The vibration would be significantly increased when under extra load (i.e. when the AC cycled on or I turned the heated seats on putting load on the alternator). I wound up dc the AC belt and drove for while and the vibration was still there (tested by adding load to the alternator). I took off the main belt and ran the car for a bit (vibrations were always at idle and more noticeable when cold). Noticed the pulley on the WP had a bit shake to it. Found out 3 of the bolt were slightly loose . I guess when the belt was attached it put enough tension to prevent the eye from seeing it. Snugged these down (the pulley is not cracked) and the vibrations decreased probably 75% after driving it for a couple of weeks. Still seem like there's still a bit of vibration.

When the main belt was off I tried flexing the HB and it really didn't move. I also tried moving the WP shaft (with the now tightened pulley) and it had very slight vertical movement. Click/click. Very minute. So the next time I need to do some work I think I'll replace the WP while I'm at it. The current one is the improved Saleri which FCP now carries. Sadly I did not buy the previous one from them.

I think you are playing with fire here.

[FireTumbleweed]

I hear what you're saying, sometime priorities and life get in the way. I have an Insp coming due in about 1500 miles which will be the next time it's on the lift and I'll do it then. Won't get those miles on it until prob Aug. As mentioned the movement is minimal. The new idler pulley I put on last year had more movement when new. Appreciate the input however.

[BimmerBreaker]

You can remove the belt and start the car to see if the vibration is related to anything in the pulley system

The harmonic balancer going bad is extremely unlikely in my opinion. I've never seen one of those go bad in normal use

I usually look at what was recently done if something was serviced and shortly after a new vibration was introduced. You said you did the clutch and flywheel... I'd probably start there

[ross1]

I hear what you're saying, sometime priorities and life get in the way. I have an Insp coming due in about 1500 miles which will be the next time it's on the lift and I'll do it then. Won't get those miles on it until prob Aug. As mentioned the movement is minimal. The new idler pulley I put on last year had more movement when new. Appreciate the input however.

Hey, its your car. Any movement in the pump shaft is bad and you already stated there is a vibration, granted the source not yet clearly defined.
Allow me to remind you of the water pump failure modes. It may just leak from the seal which is manageable, the bearing may get very bad and shake the fan to bits or it may seize causing the belt to slip, burn and break, perhaps taking out the fan that way. A fan coming apart is another can-o-worms.
Water pumps are cheap and the job not a big one. Carry on and good luck.

[FireTumbleweed]

I'm off the HB as a cause.

You can remove the belt and start the car to see if the vibration is related to anything in the pulley system

That's what I did when I found the unsnug bolts. I tightened them up and put it back together thinking "Aha, found the obvious cause". Yea, I shouda have run it again while the belts were still off just to check. Doh!

If replacing the WP eliminates that feeling, I'll come back with my theory of how it relates to the work I did (which also included replacing the oil pan gasket).

So everyone knows why I feel comfortable waiting, often times when I do major work on my vehicles I'll become aware of something that I thought wasn't there before. 75% of the time it's just my heightened awareness and it turns out to be nothing. Before tightening up the WP pulley, you could see the engine cover slightly shake, which I know wasn't there before the work I did. That is now gone. I'm guessing most shops would look at me like I'm crazy and say its normal (owning/working on a car for 21 years, one gets very attuned to it). My wife say she doesn't feel any abnormal vibration, just the normal idle of an inline 6...maybe it's early onset neurosis.

I'll order up a new pump and pulley and compare the feeling of the new one to the old one. I might be over reading what I felt.