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Thread: Brake/clutch bleeding after brake line failure

  1. #1
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    Brake/clutch bleeding after brake line failure

    Good afternoon!

    One of the brake lines in the engine bay of my M5 split when I was backing the car up. I had the car in reverse with my foot on the clutch. The clutch went to the floor and the car jumped into gear. Since then, I've replaced all 6 brake lines, and I'm now trying to bleed the system. The brakes are rock solid with no apparent air in the system after bleeding. The clutch is a different story. I've been trying to bleed it at the slave cylinder but cant seem to clear the air. The clutch pedal is basically dead. It wont come off the floor. Any ideas of where to go from here?


    Thanks!
    Last edited by BAM3; 09-25-2022 at 04:07 PM.
    2002 M5 Sterling Gray (88k)
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  2. #2
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    When bleeding the clutch you actually have to pull it up from the floor, push it back down, pull it up, a bunch of times.. maybe 20-25 times before releasing the bleed screw for the first time. There are many ways to bleed the clutch and I've only done it a few times myself, but there are threads full of different procedures, special tools, etc.
    A great ending is all you'll see..
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  3. #3
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    Might want to try this. Let us know if you succeed.

    Bleeding the Clutch Circuit

    The only sure way to bleed the clutch is as follows:

    Make sure the rear portion of the master cylinder reservoir is full.

    Dismount the slave cylinder, but leave the hose connected. Push the actuator rod all the way in. Let it out slowly. Repeat 3 times. Remount slave cylinder.

    Good idea to orient the cylinder so that the hose connection is at the highest position, so the air can be flushed out.

    BMW has a Special Tool to compress and release the rod.


    Ed in San Jose '97 540i 6 speed aspensilber over aubergine leather. Build date 3/97. Golden Gate Chapter BMW CCA Nr 62319.

  4. #4
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    Similar to Edjack

    This is how I bled my new clutch hydraulics for my E39 manual swap based on an excellent tip from my indie tech
    -worked first time with no drama.

    -elevate car
    -disconnect slave cylinder from trans
    -use a cheap foot long, carpenter's squeeze clamp to depress the clutch slave piston
    -attach a pressure bleeder to brake reservoir with fluid and 10-15 psi
    -go down and open the clutch slave bleeder screw with a hose into a jar
    -depress the clutch 2-3 times to make sure fluid is flowing through master attached to pedal
    -stop bleeding when air bubbles stop in jar
    -make sure there is no pressure (from pedal or pressure bleeder) when releasing clamp on slave
    -reinstall slave cylinder in transmission.
    Last edited by effduration; 09-25-2022 at 09:45 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by edjack View Post
    Might want to try this. Let us know if you succeed.

    Bleeding the Clutch Circuit

    The only sure way to bleed the clutch is as follows:

    Make sure the rear portion of the master cylinder reservoir is full.

    Dismount the slave cylinder, but leave the hose connected. Push the actuator rod all the way in. Let it out slowly. Repeat 3 times. Remount slave cylinder.

    Good idea to orient the cylinder so that the hose connection is at the highest position, so the air can be flushed out.

    BMW has a Special Tool to compress and release the rod.
    ↑↑↑ edjack's got it. I've been playing with BMWs since E3/Bavaria days and bleeding the clutch has always been weird, but the same. OP might have luck letting it sit overnight with a full reservoir or pumping the pedal by hand, including bringing it back up by hand, a hundred or two hundred times. That's worked for me after a roadside clutch M/C replacement on an E28. But above all else, don't open the bleeder screw on the slave. It doesn't work and it doesn't help.

    There is at least one other completely different technique that works, but IMO it's harder and more complicated.
    98 328is
    02 525ita
    80 528i
    81 528ia
    and decades of owning and driving BMWs

  6. #6
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    I always remove the slave, attached only by the hose. I use a clamp to compress the piston all the way in the bore, then pump/bleed the system.
    With all the air out, remove the clamp and re-install the slave.
    -Donny

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeysCoupe View Post
    I always remove the slave, attached only by the hose. I use a clamp to compress the piston all the way in the bore, then pump/bleed the system.
    With all the air out, remove the clamp and re-install the slave.
    -Donny
    I was gonna say the same thing. But is it as critical on the slave cylinders on the M62’s?
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  8. #8
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    Make sure the car is level, if you jack up only one side to crawl under the car and work the bleeder screw, it can make it impossible for the fluid to flow into the clutch side of the master cylinder reservoir, and it will never bleed. I learned this the hard way.

  9. #9
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    I've used the reverse bleed procedure twice with excellent results. A pump oil can like: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-...-can-1113.html.

    I've also done it by pushing the rod against the transmission body and hand pump the pedal a few hundred times. Reverse bleed is my go to way now.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by m735is View Post
    I've used the reverse bleed procedure twice with excellent results. A pump oil can like: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-...-can-1113.html.

    I've also done it by pushing the rod against the transmission body and hand pump the pedal a few hundred times. Reverse bleed is my go to way now.
    Ill be playing with it today. i plan to compress the slave cylinder and pressure bleed from the top. Fingers crossed i finally get this done. Ready to be back on the road.
    2002 M5 Sterling Gray (88k)
    Dinan mufflers and intake, ZHP shift knob, E60 shifter, Ground Control coilovers
    Restoration in progress!

    2021 M340i (25k)

    Sold!
    2003 540i MSport 6sp Tit Silver (193k)
    Dinan Exhaust, Autosolutions SSK, 88C Thermostat, Koni's, BlueBus, BavSound, DUDMD Stage 2, AFE CAI

    Sold!
    Aavi's 98 M3/4/5 Cosmos (137k)
    TMS Stage 3 with Shrick cams, Shorty headers and tune, M50, Stromung, 8.5 LTW's squared, PFC-Z, 3.38, Bosch H1's with city lights, CD43, BSW Stage 1, BMS SSK, TMS Underdrive Pulleys, Sunroof Eclipse, LeatherZ gauge pack


    BMW CCA# 308494


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by effduration View Post
    Similar to Edjack

    This is how I bled my new clutch hydraulics for my E39 manual swap based on an excellent tip from my indie tech
    -worked first time with no drama.

    -elevate car
    -disconnect slave cylinder from trans
    -use a cheap foot long, carpenter's squeeze clamp to depress the clutch slave piston
    -attach a pressure bleeder to brake reservoir with fluid and 10-15 psi
    -go down and open the clutch slave bleeder screw with a hose into a jar
    -depress the clutch 2-3 times to make sure fluid is flowing through master attached to pedal
    -stop bleeding when air bubbles stop in jar
    -make sure there is no pressure (from pedal or pressure bleeder) when releasing clamp on slave
    -reinstall slave cylinder in transmission.
    Ive been snake bit with this car. Replaced the clutch master cylinder, slave cylinder and the steel/rubber line that connects them. Somewhere along the line, i saw the rubber hose was weeping.

    I get everything reinstalled and hook up my pressure bleeder this morning. The slave cylinder is fully compressed. I pressured up to ~8psi and and opened the bleeder. Within 5-10 seconds i had a solid stream of fluid coming out. I close the bleed nipple, removed the pressure bleeder and took my clamp off the slave cylinder. When i went back in the car to press the clutch it, the pedal had a ton of resistance. I evidentially pressed the pedal a bit too hard and i heard the slave cylinder pop. I came apart and drained the clutch reservoir fluid.

    Im at a total loss at this point. This shouldnt be that difficult. Am i missing anything big here?
    2002 M5 Sterling Gray (88k)
    Dinan mufflers and intake, ZHP shift knob, E60 shifter, Ground Control coilovers
    Restoration in progress!

    2021 M340i (25k)

    Sold!
    2003 540i MSport 6sp Tit Silver (193k)
    Dinan Exhaust, Autosolutions SSK, 88C Thermostat, Koni's, BlueBus, BavSound, DUDMD Stage 2, AFE CAI

    Sold!
    Aavi's 98 M3/4/5 Cosmos (137k)
    TMS Stage 3 with Shrick cams, Shorty headers and tune, M50, Stromung, 8.5 LTW's squared, PFC-Z, 3.38, Bosch H1's with city lights, CD43, BSW Stage 1, BMS SSK, TMS Underdrive Pulleys, Sunroof Eclipse, LeatherZ gauge pack


    BMW CCA# 308494


  12. #12
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    unbolt the slave and let it hang by the hose with the bleeder facing up. Open the bleeder, it will gravity bleed. Do NOT push the pedal or the piston will be ejected from the slave, just let it drip.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross1 View Post
    Do NOT push the pedal or the piston will be ejected from the slave, just let it drip.
    That must have been what i did because the piston definitely ejected.
    2002 M5 Sterling Gray (88k)
    Dinan mufflers and intake, ZHP shift knob, E60 shifter, Ground Control coilovers
    Restoration in progress!

    2021 M340i (25k)

    Sold!
    2003 540i MSport 6sp Tit Silver (193k)
    Dinan Exhaust, Autosolutions SSK, 88C Thermostat, Koni's, BlueBus, BavSound, DUDMD Stage 2, AFE CAI

    Sold!
    Aavi's 98 M3/4/5 Cosmos (137k)
    TMS Stage 3 with Shrick cams, Shorty headers and tune, M50, Stromung, 8.5 LTW's squared, PFC-Z, 3.38, Bosch H1's with city lights, CD43, BSW Stage 1, BMS SSK, TMS Underdrive Pulleys, Sunroof Eclipse, LeatherZ gauge pack


    BMW CCA# 308494


  14. #14
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    Can the slave be reassembled or is it safe to say it's FUBAR at this point?
    2002 M5 Sterling Gray (88k)
    Dinan mufflers and intake, ZHP shift knob, E60 shifter, Ground Control coilovers
    Restoration in progress!

    2021 M340i (25k)

    Sold!
    2003 540i MSport 6sp Tit Silver (193k)
    Dinan Exhaust, Autosolutions SSK, 88C Thermostat, Koni's, BlueBus, BavSound, DUDMD Stage 2, AFE CAI

    Sold!
    Aavi's 98 M3/4/5 Cosmos (137k)
    TMS Stage 3 with Shrick cams, Shorty headers and tune, M50, Stromung, 8.5 LTW's squared, PFC-Z, 3.38, Bosch H1's with city lights, CD43, BSW Stage 1, BMS SSK, TMS Underdrive Pulleys, Sunroof Eclipse, LeatherZ gauge pack


    BMW CCA# 308494


  15. #15
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    No reason it cannot be re-assembled. Be very careful not to damage the seal.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAM3 View Post
    Ive been snake bit with this car. Replaced the clutch master cylinder, slave cylinder and the steel/rubber line that connects them. Somewhere along the line, i saw the rubber hose was weeping.

    I get everything reinstalled and hook up my pressure bleeder this morning. The slave cylinder is fully compressed. I pressured up to ~8psi and and opened the bleeder. Within 5-10 seconds i had a solid stream of fluid coming out. I close the bleed nipple, removed the pressure bleeder and took my clamp off the slave cylinder. When i went back in the car to press the clutch it, the pedal had a ton of resistance. I evidentially pressed the pedal a bit too hard and i heard the slave cylinder pop. I came apart and drained the clutch reservoir fluid.

    Im at a total loss at this point. This shouldnt be that difficult. Am i missing anything big here?
    it sounds like after bleeding, you pressed the clutch pedal BEFORE reinstalling the slave back into the transmission… is that what you did?
    I don’t see how the slave piston ejects, if it is correctly mounted in the transmission.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by effduration View Post
    it sounds like after bleeding, you pressed the clutch pedal BEFORE reinstalling the slave back into the transmission… is that what you did?
    I don’t see how the slave piston ejects, if it is correctly mounted in the transmission.
    That must be what i did.

    I got the slave cylinder back together and plan to rebleed this morning. The whole thing is held together by a simple press fit cap. I straightened it out and put it back together on my vice. A few taps with the right sized socket and Im back in business.
    2002 M5 Sterling Gray (88k)
    Dinan mufflers and intake, ZHP shift knob, E60 shifter, Ground Control coilovers
    Restoration in progress!

    2021 M340i (25k)

    Sold!
    2003 540i MSport 6sp Tit Silver (193k)
    Dinan Exhaust, Autosolutions SSK, 88C Thermostat, Koni's, BlueBus, BavSound, DUDMD Stage 2, AFE CAI

    Sold!
    Aavi's 98 M3/4/5 Cosmos (137k)
    TMS Stage 3 with Shrick cams, Shorty headers and tune, M50, Stromung, 8.5 LTW's squared, PFC-Z, 3.38, Bosch H1's with city lights, CD43, BSW Stage 1, BMS SSK, TMS Underdrive Pulleys, Sunroof Eclipse, LeatherZ gauge pack


    BMW CCA# 308494


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAM3 View Post
    That must be what i did.

    I got the slave cylinder back together and plan to rebleed this morning. The whole thing is held together by a simple press fit cap. I straightened it out and put it back together on my vice. A few taps with the right sized socket and Im back in business.
    There should be no clutch fluid pressure - from a pressure bleeder OR from pressing the clutch pedal, while the slave is disconnected from transmission.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by effduration View Post
    There should be no clutch fluid pressure - from a pressure bleeder OR from pressing the clutch pedal, while the slave is disconnected from transmission.
    You were 100% right. I actually had the system bled correctly the first time but pressed the clutch pedal with the slave not installed. I rebled yesterday morning and have 30 miles on the car. It's finally running well again.

    Thanks for the help.
    2002 M5 Sterling Gray (88k)
    Dinan mufflers and intake, ZHP shift knob, E60 shifter, Ground Control coilovers
    Restoration in progress!

    2021 M340i (25k)

    Sold!
    2003 540i MSport 6sp Tit Silver (193k)
    Dinan Exhaust, Autosolutions SSK, 88C Thermostat, Koni's, BlueBus, BavSound, DUDMD Stage 2, AFE CAI

    Sold!
    Aavi's 98 M3/4/5 Cosmos (137k)
    TMS Stage 3 with Shrick cams, Shorty headers and tune, M50, Stromung, 8.5 LTW's squared, PFC-Z, 3.38, Bosch H1's with city lights, CD43, BSW Stage 1, BMS SSK, TMS Underdrive Pulleys, Sunroof Eclipse, LeatherZ gauge pack


    BMW CCA# 308494


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