Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Chasing down front end wobble

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    117
    My Cars
    2000 BMW 323i

    Chasing down front end wobble

    So finally I decided to tackle the front end vibration the Bimmer has since we bought it 2 years ago. At around 55mph the steering wheel starts shaking, sometimes it goes away and comes back. It has now a brand new set of tires (DiscountTire installed and balanced) and pretty much everything but the wheel hubs on the front has been replaced but the shimmy is still there. I tried to swap front and rear tires but it does not make much difference (directional tires give me limited options).

    So yesterday I started to work the problem and measured the rims and the rotors.

    So the front rim runouts are 0.02'' (0.508mm) and 0.005'' (0.127mm) on the inner side.

    I checked the rotors for lateral runout but there is no measurable lateral runout and I have brand new Powerstop Z23 set installed like 2 months ago. I checked for dragging pads but the temperatures are fine on all 4 rotors.

    Next I will remove both front tires, check the rotors for radial runout and clean the wheel mating surface good to make sure no dirt or rust is between the rotor and the wheel.


    In the meantime, can anyone identify the what appears to be an aftermarket wheel we have on the car?

    If the radial and lateral runout measures good on the rotor can a bad wheel hub still cause a vibration? There is no measurable movement on the hub and if the hub was bent I would be able to measure some runout without removing the rotor, correct?

    2022-09-08 08_40_28-Window.jpg 20220907_194147.jpg 20220907_192556.jpg
    Last edited by NewB2Beemer; 09-09-2022 at 10:32 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    9,933
    My Cars
    2018 BMW M240i
    The E46 is notorious for front lower control arm issues. I would get the car up in the air and place you hands at the 9 and 3 o’clock positions. Then try to see how much movement you get when you try to wiggle the tire back and forth. I bet the low control arm bushings are the culprit.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    117
    My Cars
    2000 BMW 323i
    The LCA and it's bushing has been replaced less than a year ago and the shimmy was there before and after the replacement. I am quite confident that it can only be the rim(s) or the hub(s). I do have a spare brand new LCA bushing though and I can try to throw it in just to rule it out.

    I am unable to find anything reliable about the wheel and tire specs for the E46. The Bentley manual does not list anything. I found specs on an E36 forum and not sure if the E46 is the same or not.

    I've printed out the info you need. Will post it when I get a chance to scan the 12 or so pages.
    For one-part alloy wheels the spec is:
    Max. radial runout of rim is 0.3 mm = .012"
    Max. axial runout of rim is the same .012"

    The spec with tire is 1.1 radial and 1.3 mm axial.
    https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/w.../#post-9191668

  4. #4
    dworthy's Avatar
    dworthy is offline Wagon meister :) BMW Tech Expert
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Grafenwoehr, Germany
    Posts
    14,483
    My Cars
    16 220i 05 325it 05 M3
    As these cars age, I do notice a pattern, paint built-up on the back of the rims where it touches the rotors. When you pull off the tires, look at the contact point to see how much old paint is there. The other spot is the hub to rotor connections, while it isn't much, it too can cause a slight shake.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Milford, DE
    Posts
    41
    My Cars
    2005 BMW 330xi Sedan
    Why not take the rim in question and move it to the rear. If the problem moves there, then your rim needs attention.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    117
    My Cars
    2000 BMW 323i
    Quote Originally Posted by bpde328i View Post
    Why not take the rim in question and move it to the rear. If the problem moves there, then your rim needs attention.
    Unfortunately, all of the rims are out of spec, even the best rim with the lowest runout is over 0.020". I did take the rotors off on both side on the front and accurately measured the hubs and rotors (well, I don't have spacers to tighten down the lug nuts when the wheels are off so kind of only tightened the rotor holding screw, it should be "good enough") and they are all fine with close to zero runout.
    I am in the process of either getting new rims/wheels or getting the ones we have to a shop that can straighten them.

    Just for comparison I lifted our X5 and checked the front wheels using the same dial. Neither of the 2 wheels have excessive runout, they both were <0.003". This makes me confident that the 0.012" spec is reasonable and the rims I have are shot (not sure what happened to them, we got the car with those rims 2 years ago).
    Last edited by NewB2Beemer; 09-14-2022 at 04:00 PM.

  7. #7
    dworthy's Avatar
    dworthy is offline Wagon meister :) BMW Tech Expert
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Grafenwoehr, Germany
    Posts
    14,483
    My Cars
    16 220i 05 325it 05 M3
    Potholes or crappy roads beating up the rims is what typically cause out of round issues.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Milford, DE
    Posts
    41
    My Cars
    2005 BMW 330xi Sedan
    Rims can be refurbished if not terribly bad. Either that, or, if the car is a keeper then spring for a new or used set. Maybe check listings in BMW Roundel magazine.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    117
    My Cars
    2000 BMW 323i
    The local shop changes $135 per tire for straightening and rebalancing. At that price buying a good used set might make more sense.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    26
    My Cars
    Z3 323 328
    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    As these cars age, I do notice a pattern, paint built-up on the back of the rims where it touches the rotors. When you pull off the tires, look at the contact point to see how much old paint is there. The other spot is the hub to rotor connections, while it isn't much, it too can cause a slight shake.
    AGREE!. Where the rotor touches the hub must be FLAT! Any rock/rust/sand will take wheel out. Same for where wheel touches/mounts on rotor. Wire brush everything and a thin layer of anti rust. Removes one variable to the equation.

    please let us know if you find it.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    117
    My Cars
    2000 BMW 323i
    Just reporting back that it was the rims. Bought a set of used rims, properly refinished it , curb rash, scratches all gone, buffed shiny and now absolutely no vibration any more. Took it up to 80mph on the back roads and smooth as butter.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by NewB2Beemer; 09-25-2022 at 03:53 PM.

  12. #12
    dworthy's Avatar
    dworthy is offline Wagon meister :) BMW Tech Expert
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Grafenwoehr, Germany
    Posts
    14,483
    My Cars
    16 220i 05 325it 05 M3
    Glad to hear you found the issue.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    26
    My Cars
    Z3 323 328
    Thank you for the update. Just curious, how did you "know" you were not buying a used set of rims which were bent and continuing the problem? I need buy a set of rims but do not want to buy bent ones.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    117
    My Cars
    2000 BMW 323i
    The short answer is: this is the kind of rims my son wanted so I bought and refinished the set with the plan to get them straightened if any of them is bent. I got lucky.
    The long answer is that this is the 5th used set we bought in the past 5 years because we have a full set of snow tires for all of our vehicles and I just bought used rims for that purpose. None of them had any issues and I have to tell you that the rims I bought for our X5 were pretty banged up.

    My best guess is that the set of rims that came with the E46 were at one point was serviced at some mom & pops shop and the technician was careless ending up bending the rims. Otherwise it is hard to imagine how 4 rims go this bad.

    I would also have no problem taking a dial with me when buying a set of rims from a person and check the runout.

Similar Threads

  1. Front-end wobble: wheel or control arm, etc.?
    By rocketwagon in forum 1996 - 2003 (E39)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-07-2010, 12:13 PM
  2. Front end wobble
    By mitch0243 in forum Suspension Tech and Handling sponsored by eBMWParts.com
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-19-2009, 07:24 PM
  3. Front end wobbling at 35 mph..time for some bushings?
    By IWannaBMW in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-05-2007, 05:38 PM
  4. front end wobble
    By earl34 in forum 1988 - 1996 (E34)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-25-2007, 06:08 PM
  5. front end wobble
    By Eric K in forum 1988 - 1996 (E34)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-16-2005, 12:15 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •