E34 / 1991 - M50 B25 Relay

[devid M50]

Hello guys
I've been searching for a while now, what to put here


When the car key is in position 2 and I connect a wire
Between (A and B) the headlights of the car only work


Well what should he buy to put it here


Thank you


bbp.jpg



klp.jpg

[shogun]

look at the relay socket, write down the pin numbers and the pattern, use the realoem with your VIN and go to relays, there you find all relays with pin numbers and the pattern, example http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...ious_relays_2/
for example Relay day-light-driving 61311378052 shows pins A1, A2, A3, A4, E1, E2, 31 http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...trical_system/
Each wiring diagram also shown at the end component location views pictures https://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e34/

[devid M50]

Welcome
Find the relay connectors by wire color,
I don't have relay connectors, so I have to look for them to buy,

VIN: WBAHD61080BK11716

Here are the wire colors

pic1.jpg

[shogun]

It is time consuming, but you have to study the wiring diagrams, link see above. Understanding European wiring diagrams (PDF) http://www.e38.org/understanding%20e...20diagrams.pdf

[devid M50]

Well, it looks like it belongs to (Daytime Running Lights).
I have to buy this relay and give it a try
I hope it works


Thank you for your help
You helped me a lot (I thank you)

s-l400.jpg

[shogun]

That SKM = Stand Kaltabfrage Monitor = parking light monitor relay 61311378052 Relay day-light-driving (name is a bit mis-leading) you show above, that is the so-called mustard relay and is located in the fuse box, see here http://bmwe32.masscom.net/sean750/mu...stardRelay.htm
Tail Light / Parking Light Messages (Mustard Relay) , Problem : Front parking and/or rear tail light out on 1 side of the car only, causing OBC warnings. Sometimes intermittent and erratic, so you get the impression these are false warnings. This only happens when lights are on.
61311378052 Relais Standlicht Kaltabfrage = Relais parking light monitoring in cold and warm condition, that means the the SKM in connection with the LKM-L monitors the lights when on and off. In case the car has a LKM-B = basic, then there is only this relay installed: 61311378525 Verbindungsstecker Standlicht = connection relay parking light.
German technical explanation:

Funktionsbeschreibung Lampenkontrolmodul (LKM) : Das Lampenkontrollmodul (LKM) enthaelt die Relais fuer: -Abblendlicht, -Fernlicht, -Nebelschlussleuchte, -Nebelscheinwerfer. Darueberhinaus ueberwacht das LKM die Lichtschaltkreise auf Ausfall von Gluehlampen und Kabelunterbrechungen. Tritt ein Fehler im Schaltkreis auf, meldet das LKM diesen Zustand ueber Datenleitungen an das Check-Control-Modul (CCM). Das CCM gibt die Meldung ebenfalls ueber Datenleitungen weiter zum Kombiinstrument. Ein Hinweistext in der Kombi-Anzeige (Kombi-Display) informiert den Fahrer ueber den Lichtausfall.

Warm- Kaltueberwachung: Die Ueberwachung der Lichtschaltkreise wird von speziellen elektronischen Bauteilen, sogenannten Komparatoren durchgefuehrt. Man unterscheidet die Warm- und Kaltueberwachung.
Warmueberwachung: Der Schaltkreis wird ueberprueft, wenn das betreffende Licht eingeschaltet ist.
Kaltueberwachung: Der Schaltkreis wird auch ueberprueft, wenn das betreffende Licht ausgeschaltet ist.
Ueberwachungsumfang: Man unterscheidet Basis- und Luxusversion. Die Luxusversion ist an den Modellen E32 735i und 750i verbaut.
Lichtkreis..................................Basis. ........Luxus

Abblendlicht..........................warm/kalt.......warm/kalt
Standlicht vorne........................warm............warm/kalt
Ruecklicht.................................warm... .........warm/kalt
Kennzeichenbeleuchtung............warm............ warm
Nebelscheinwerfer......................keine...... ......warm/kalt
Nebelschlussleuchte...................keine....... .....warm/kalt
Bei der Laenderausfuehrung USA/Japan sind keine Nebelschlussleuchten verbaut.

Bremslicht: Fuer die Funktionsueberwachung des Bremslichtes ist ein zusaetzlicher Bremslichtschalter vorhanden. Der Testschalter wird kurz nach Betaetigen des Bremslichtschalters durch das Bremspedal eingeschaltet. Er schaltet Masse zum Check Control Modul. Solange der Testschalter eingeschaltet ist, wird der Schaltkreis des Bremslichts einschliesslich des Bremslichtschalters auf Fehler ueberwacht. Ein Fehler wird in der Kombi-Anzeigeeinheit angezeigt.
Die Laenderausfuehrung USA enthaelt eine zusaetzliche dritte Bremsleuchte, die ebenfalls ueberwacht wird.

Standlicht Kaltabfrage Relais: Die Kaltabfrage eines Lichtkreises ist nur dann moeglich, wenn das Licht ueber ein Relais geschaltet wird. Aus diesem Grund werden bei den Modellen E32 735i und 750i Standlicht und Ruecklicht ueber das Standlicht kaltabfrage relais (Relais K7) geschaltet. Beim 730i ist anstelle des Relais eine Bruecke verbaut. 61311378052 Relais Standlicht Kaltabfrage
===============================
Functional description Lamp control module (LKM) : The lamp control module (LKM) contains the relays for:
-dipped beam
-high beam
-rear fog lights
- front fog lights

In addition, the LKM monitors the light circuits for failure of bulbs and cable interruptions. If a fault occurs in the circuit, the LKM reports this condition to the check control module (CCM) via data lines. The CCM = check control module also passes on the message to the instrument cluster via data lines. A message text in the instrument cluster (instrument cluster display) informs the driver about the light failure.

Hot/cold monitoring: The monitoring of the light circuits is carried out by special electronic components, so-called comparators. A distinction is made between hot and cold monitoring.

Hot monitoring: The circuit is checked when the light in question is switched on.
Cold monitoring: The circuit is also monitored when the light is switched off.
Scope of monitoring: A distinction is made between basic and deluxe versions. The luxury version is installed on the E32 735i and 750i models.
Light circuit..................................Basic. ........Luxury

Low beam..........................warm/cold.......warm/cold
Front parking light...................warm............warm/cold
Tail light.................................warm... .........warm/cold
License plate light....................warm............ warm
Fog light.................................none...... ......warm/cold
Rear fog light..........................none....... .....warm/cold
No rear fog lights are installed on the USA/Japan country version.

Brake light: For the function control of the brake light an additional brake light switch is available. The test switch is switched on shortly after the brake light switch is activated by the brake pedal. It switches ground to the check control module. As long as the test switch is switched on, the circuit of the brake light including the brake light switch is monitored for errors. A fault is indicated in the combination display unit. The USA version includes an additional third brake light, which is also monitored.

Parking light cold sensing relay: Cold sensing of a light circuit is only possible if the light is switched by a relay. For this reason, on the E32 735i and 750i models, the parking light and rear light are switched via the parking light cold sensing relay (relay K7). The 730i has a bridge instead of the relay. 61311378052 Relay parking light cold inquiry.


I doubt, that your car has real daytime running lights, it is a German spec car, and that was not used in those days in Germany, but in other countries like U.K.. German cars had parking lights, in the front headlights there are small bulbs installed, and the rear / taillights are used. Accdg to German regulations the parking lights had to be switched on when the car was parked on streets outside town.
WBAHD61080BK11716 ,Code / Type E34 / HD61, Chassis Sedan (4 Doors), Market Europe (left Steering), Engine M50 (2.50 l / 141 kW), Drivetrain Rear-Wheel Drive, Transmission automatic, Color: Bronzit-beige (139), Upholstery (0272), Manufacturer BMW AG / Dingolfing, Germany, Production Date:1990-07-16
option codes ordered: 85 Light alloy Wheels BMW Styling, 401 Sliding/vent Roof, Electric, 410 Window Lifts, Electric at Front, 428 Warning triangle, 494 Seat heating for driver + front passenger, 510 Headlight Beam-throw Control For Low Beam = automatic headlight aim motors, 520 Fog lights, 553 On-board Computer IV With Remote Control , 571 Boosted Power Supply = larger alternator, 653 High Definition Radio, 801 German version.
======================
additional info:
if LKM-B is installed then just a relay with some bridges is installed = dummy relay.
61311378052 Relais Standlicht Kaltabfrage = relay parking light cold and warm check
61311378525 Verbindungsstecker/connector Standlicht / parking light, only used in e32 730iM30 and some E34.
Alle LKM-L haben Kaltlichtabfrage, dafür ist das K7 fuer Standlicht und Ruecklicht zustaendig. Bei LKM-B ist anstatt dem K7 ein Gehaeuse mit lauter Bruecken drin, und es fehlt der Stift 31 (Masse).
= all LKM-L have cold light check for parking light and taillight. LKM-B has instead of the K7 a relay housing with bridges only = no relays, and pin 31 ground is missing/not there.
compare the pinout of the relays 61311378525 and 61311378052 with google search for pictures, then you see the differences.

[devid M50]

Congratulations, you have a lot of experience, you amaze me


I am sorry
I am disappointed
So far I don't know what to put here

pic2.jpg

[shogun]

check once more in the E34 wiring diagrams, at the end there are always component location charts. The pic of the location of the SKM / mustard relay relay in the fuse box is from an E32, not E34. So better double check.
But here it is also shown in the fuse box https://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Maint...trical/LKM.htm
If connecting between (A and B) the headlights work as they should and there is no other problem, just make a wire bridge.

DRL = daytime running lights
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...bly-simple-DIY!

[devid M50]

Hello
This is my fuse box,
0.jpg


And here is the wired bridge,
1.jpg


Here is the key to this situation,
2.jpg


And here the lights work,
3.jpg


I couldn't find this in my car, so I doubt they put it here and no one has used it before me.
6.jpg


But in the end I must follow what you tell me, you have many experiences and skills

[shogun]

let's wait if one of the electric specialists for the E34 can chime in and help /has some comments. But if it works with the bridge, fine.
Here is another E34 wiring diagram for E34 which you can check, and that seems to be a EURO spec from the engines listed : 5 Series - E34 (518i, 520i, 525td, 525tds, incl. touring) Schematics Model year 1994
that includes all lights and even Daytime light coding diodes, V4 *6300.0 , probably U.K. version
https://download.bmwland.ru/valera/E...0.0/index.html

headlights/foglights diagrams https://download.bmwland.ru/valera/E...2.0/index.html

relay box details https://download.bmwland.ru/valera/E...0.0/index.html
component location views https://download.bmwland.ru/valera/E...0.0/index.html
https://download.bmwland.ru/valera/E...w_ETM/E34.html

[devid M50]

There is a note
When the wire bridge is put on, the LKM module turns on and then the lights,


Well, we will wait for the specialists and the electricians,
I hope they find a solution
I'm very frustrated and the plans are very complicated

[devid M50]

Hello again
Look for the reference of these pins, where can I find them?

Image8.jpg

[shogun]

61311378052 7-pins relay, A1, A2, A3, A4, E1, E2, 31 used with LKM-L for cold and warm light checking parking light and taillight
61311378525 connector parking light, only used in e32 730iM30 and some E34 with LKM-B for warm light checking = when lights are switched on , 6-pins A1, A2, A3, A4, E1, E2, NOT 31 = ground is missing

edit: I contacted a electr. expert and he explained to me: Mustard Relay is K7 Parking Light Monitor Relay page 6314-00. It has 7 pins, as shown in photo.
31 = pin 7, Ground, E1, E2 = pins 4 and 6, 12V switched by light switch S8, A1, A2, A3, A4 = pins 2, 5, 6, 9 which are Normally Open relay contacts. These lines feed through A3 LKM to power the Front and Rear Park Lights E15, E16, E17, E19. The function of K7 is a bit obscure - it opens (floats) the circuits to A3 X12 pins 7, 26, 27 and 28 when the light switch S8 is OFF. This must assist the A3 functionality.
In the latter years, BMW simply deleted K7 and powered A3 X12 pins 7, 26, 27 and 28 directly from the light switch S8! So K7 Mustard was just a bad idea.

all terminals you can find in the ETM, but it is time consuming for us non eletr. specialists, so study them https://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e34/
explanations on functions check here
WIRING TERMINAL DESIGNATIONS, Terminal Definition http://www.e38.org/understanding%20e...20diagrams.pdf
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ean-DIN-Wiring
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_72552
https://www.hagerty.com/media/mainte...relays-part-2/
https://www.swe-check.com.au/editori...ing_relays.php
http://www.kfz.josefscholz.de/Klemmenbezeichnung.html
https://www.kfztech.de/kfztechnik/el...eichnungen.htm

or google search for example: What is A1 and A2 on a relay

translated from a German site: A1/A2: coil; .../A3: plus center tap for bipolar coil; for a DC contactor, A1 or A+ must be connected to the more positive potential and A2 or A- to the more negative potential; an AC contactor has a diode internally and can be functionally connected in any way: usually A1 to an outer conductor L, L1, L2 or L3 and A2 to the center conductor N

[devid M50]

Welcome .. shogun
I'm still frustrated about using the light in daytime mode.
But you told me that in my car (remote control).
Where can I find this device? I looked under the back seat and couldn't find anything.
I also looked under the steering wheel and found nothing.
Where can I find it, thank you

[shogun]

your car was built in 1990 in German spec, and at that time Germany had no day time running lights.
keyless entry/remote control looks like this http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/remo...e_locking.html maybe your car does not have it, it was optional extra
upgrade http://bmwe32.masscom.net/ivo/remote...e_install.html
if you want to install a remote control, cheapest is a aftermarket remote control, search the internet
example http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Upgrade/KeylessEntry.htm

this is how your car was delivered:

VIN WBAHD61080BK11716
Code / Type E34 / HD61
Chassis Sedan (4 Doors)
Market Europe (left Steering)
Engine M50 (2.50 l / 141 kW)
Drivetrain Rear-Wheel Drive
Transmission automatic
Color Bronzit-beige (139)
Upholstery (0272)
Manufacturer BMW AG / Dingolfing, Germany
Production Date 1990-07-16
options ordered
285 Lt/alloy Wheels Bmw Styling Lm Raeder/bmw Styling
401 Sliding/vent Roof, Electric Schiebe-hebedach, Elektrisch
410 Window Lifts, Electric At Front Fensterheber, Elektrisch Vorn
428 Warning triangle Warndreieck
494 Seat heating for driver and front passenger Sitzheizung für Fahrer und Beifahrer
510 Headlight Beam-throw Controll for Low Beam Leuchtweitenregelung Abblendlicht
520 Fog lights Nebelscheinwerfer
553 On-board Computer IV Wih Remote Control Bordcomputer Iv Mit Fernbedienung
571 Boosted Power Supply Staerkere Stromversorgung Plus
653 High Definition Radio High Definition Radio
801 German version Deutschland-Ausführung

[E32FAN]

The factory headlamp wiring is quite simple, and there is no reason for a complex new relay added under the dash.

Maybe it was an amateur modification to try to add Daytime Running Lights (DRL)?

It should be cut out and thrown away, and the (simple) factory wiring restored.

If DRL is needed, I can help with that. (Canada was among the first to mandate DRL.) I added DRL to my 1988 E32 by bringing a new wire out of the LKM to a fuse tap.

[devid M50]

shogun

Thank you

- - - Updated - - -

E32FAN

Yes I was trying to run DRL
If you have any help, it's welcome

[E32FAN]

Yes I was trying to run DRL
If you have any help, it's welcome

LKM is module A3 on page 6301.0-03. 12V current feeds from F2 thru S8 Light Switch X503 pin 3 when Headlights are on, and this pulls in the low beam relay.

I cut a 1 mm break thru this X12 pin 3 trace on the top side of the LKM circuit board, so Pin 3 no longer feeds to the low beam relay coil.

Now solder a new thin insulated wire to the trace at LKM X12 pin 6 (shown on page 6301.0-00. It is fed from F15 Hot in Accy, Run and Start. Solder the other end of this new wire to the relay coil at the trace you just cut.

This will power the low beam headlight relay coil in Accy, Run and Start, regardless of the light switch position. Too bad about Accy, since it will drain your battery faster with no engine running. So don't do that!

(If you don't cut the pin 3 trace as described, then F2 and F15 will be connected together, and this is a BAD idea.)