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Thread: Finally My Own Boost Story: The E30 M30 Turbo

  1. #1
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    e30, e34, e36, Cherokee

    Finally My Own Boost Story: The E30 M30 Turbo

    Hello all and welcome to my E30 turbo build thread. Building a boosted BMW is something I have been wanting for at least 15 years, but life and other projects have delayed it.

    About 4 years ago I was given a Holset he351 from a 2006 dodge cummins, 65k miles on it and nothing wrong the owner just upgraded. This started the process of acquiring parts and prepping my e34 535i (click for more history) for boost. But then in fall 2019 the e34 was t-boned and overall it was in pretty poor cosmetic shape, also ended up blowing up the clutch among other things so out came the engine and the car was scrapped.

    In 2020 The clutch on my e30 started slipping and the plan was to put the m30 engine in with the turbo, but again life and covid delayed things. Now in July 2022 the engine is in, boosting and moving, there is still much to be done. For the history of the e30 and general stuff done, rebuild after hitting a deer and some race pics to it click here.

    This is a work in progress thread and build so I will start by listing parts and basic info and the status of where its at now. More pics, videos and updates will follow including sharing my tune file, once its decent.

    Ok onto some info:

    The Car is a 1986 325es manual
    - Facelift euro front clip with euro grilles blacked out kidny and DEPO smoked euro crosshair ellipsoid headlights, H&R sports/Bilstein sports, Revshift M3 poly FCAB's and poly rear subframe bushings, Garagistic X brace and front/rear strut brace, z3 1.9L steering rack 2.7 ratio with Sikky manufacturing steering shaft, z3 oem short shifter, Hart drilled/slotted rotors with Hawk hps pads, Enkei RPF1 15x8 wheels with 245 BFG Rivals on 20mm bolt on stud style spacers. Yes I need sway bars bad its on the list...


    As for the engine
    it is an m30b35 from a 1989 535i (originally from my old automatic one before in my last e34) and has around 200k miles. The Bottom end is stock, it does have new oil pump chain/guide and timing chain/guides and tensioner. The head had a recent surface and valve job, Ireland engineering 284 cam, HD rockers and rocker locks. I am using ARP head studs with a stock Elring composite head gasket.


    The turbo build and m30 swap components:

    Drivline/swap:
    Garagistic motor mounts and poly motor/transmission mounts, CaTuned drive shaft adapter (allows me to use stock e30 drive shaft with 78mm guibo flange and mate to the 96mm guibo on the m30 getrag).
    I am using a JB Racing lightweight flywheel and e28 M5 sachs clutch (yes I know this will need upgraded)

    Cooling:
    E36 m3 all aluminum radiator (ebay) using e34 lower hose with a few inches at radiator end cut off, e28 upper hose also with few inches at radiator cut off (heater core not plumbed in yet) using the e30 expansion tank hose with an aluminum facelift style e30 expansion tank (ebay) and a SPAL 14" pusher fan at the front of the radiator. So far after a drive on 80* day I have not seen it go over 188* but the hood was still off.

    Oiling:
    VAC motorsports oil filter adapter plate with 8an lines to a remote filter housing using a standard WIX spin on filter (51515 I think) and I plan to add a oil cooler soon. Using a 36" feed line with an adapter at the turbo The turbo oil feed comes off an adapter after the filter (and after the oil cooler when its there) so turbo only gets nice clean cool oil. The drain was a hassle due to the tight clearance between the turbo and manifold. I ended up using a extra long turbo drain tube (ironically for a dodge truck) bent and shaped that then used a section of 12an rubber hose to a barbed an fitting at the 12an bulkhead fitting on the oil pan. Ugly but seems to be working ok.

    Turbo:

    Holset he351 with internal wastegate welded shut, Team2Fast from Germany (I see there is china copies now) turbo manifold, turbo smart 44mm wastegate, Tial Q series 50mm v band blow off valve, 2.5" intercooler piping (ebay), EMUSA intercooler (ebay).

    Tuning/fuel:

    For tuning I am using Megasquirt MS2PNP, 42lb Bosch injectors, Bosch 044 inline fuel pump (replaced factory outside tank pump), Sytec AD-18 fuel rail adapter to run an Aeromotive adjustable 1:1 fuel pressure regulator, Innovate AFR gauge Bosch LSU 4.9 wideband, also an oil pressure and boost gauge ("dynoracing" ebay), using GM air intake temp sensor, e36 throttle position sensor with adapter.

    Other mods to make this work:
    I had a plate welded onto the otherside of the intake manifold for the throttle body relocation.
    Made a custom bracket to hold the throttle cable which is from a e34 525i m50.
    My intake was touching the factory brake booster, so I used a booster from a VW MK1 Rabbit (had to cut and weld to shorten threaded rod end) with a e32 750i master cylinder and did ABS delete.
    I had to cut up the front valence a bit to make it fit over the intercooler as well as cut out holes for the piping.
    Of course the necessary firewall massaging which I think I over did but theres plenty of room now.
    I am using the old style plate shifter support mounted solidly at the rear and tapped the holes on the e34 transmission to bolt to and using the old style wide selector joint. This is not perfect, it sits a bit far down in the center console and 1st/3rd/5th sit basically where neutral used to sit so angle is not quite right. Though I almost like the new position as its actually more comfortable, I plan to get an adjustable DSSR and use the new style selector rod joint.

    I got lucky on the wiring and both my cars had the round style connector and the engine harness just mated to my e30 and ran.


    Ok thats all I can think of if I forgot anything I will add it later also I would be happy to answer any questions.


    Onto Some pics.


    Reinforcing the subframe and clearancing tunnel.
    20220424_150420.jpg 20220424_153840.jpg 20220424_153923.jpg 20220424_162709.jpg 20220424_183625.jpg
    Last edited by darknezz7; 07-18-2022 at 07:24 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Dropping it in
    20220501_132519.jpg

    Oil filter setup
    20220617_183734.jpg

    Drive shaft adapter
    20220617_203416.jpg

    Progress
    20220501_164535.jpg
    Last edited by darknezz7; 07-16-2022 at 03:00 PM.
    Slowly climbing the ladder. But never reach the top.
    Click Car 4 Build!
    '86 325es-Turbo m30!
    '94 325iA-Clean DD
    '94 530i
    -6 Spd swp
    '89 Cherokee 4x4-4.7L stroker
    '97 Eclipse Spyder-4g64/63 stroker Turbo.
    '89 535is-RIP 2020, engine now in e30!
    '84 318is-RIP 2016.

    '89 535iA-Parted 2012
    94' 530iA-RIP 2004, engine in new 530i
    '78 530ia-first car RIP 2005

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    e30, e34, e36, Cherokee
    Throttle body accelerator cable setup
    20220617_183755.jpg 20220617_183809.jpg

    Fuel rail adapter
    20220617_183841.jpg

    Like the little air filter?
    20220617_183705.jpg


    Progress
    20220603_203044.jpg



    Very first start
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3JYAyZ80IHE
    Last edited by darknezz7; 07-08-2022 at 02:06 AM.
    Slowly climbing the ladder. But never reach the top.
    Click Car 4 Build!
    '86 325es-Turbo m30!
    '94 325iA-Clean DD
    '94 530i
    -6 Spd swp
    '89 Cherokee 4x4-4.7L stroker
    '97 Eclipse Spyder-4g64/63 stroker Turbo.
    '89 535is-RIP 2020, engine now in e30!
    '84 318is-RIP 2016.

    '89 535iA-Parted 2012
    94' 530iA-RIP 2004, engine in new 530i
    '78 530ia-first car RIP 2005

  4. #4
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    ABS delete, I'm going to redo the copper line as its a bit kinked. Let me tell you doing the inverted bubble flare on the factory hard line in the car SUCKS. It took me many practice tries to get it right and seal even using a good German Hazet flare tool kit. With the VW MK1 booster and 750i master my brakes are super firm with very little travel and can stop on a dime and if I really push hard lock them up but its predictable.
    20220621_203019.jpg


    Heres my turbo drain, honestly it was one of the more frustrating parts of the whole build! I just couldn't find something in 12an that was solid metal or fittings with braided line to pass the manifold and frame rail. I have like 3 different adapters and drain setups I abandoned and finally ended up with this. If anyone knows a nice universal drain tube let me know, I'm thinking like a factory VW drain with metal end and metal flex tube.
    20220701_203507.jpg

    Seriously there is zero clearance to cram a fan and everything in this chassis. The e34 would have had soooo much more room and I love that body. But the e30 is way lighter, nimble and sought after.
    20220701_203253.jpg

    20220701_203444.jpg



    And a vid after just a few adjustments
    Last edited by darknezz7; 07-08-2022 at 02:20 AM.
    Slowly climbing the ladder. But never reach the top.
    Click Car 4 Build!
    '86 325es-Turbo m30!
    '94 325iA-Clean DD
    '94 530i
    -6 Spd swp
    '89 Cherokee 4x4-4.7L stroker
    '97 Eclipse Spyder-4g64/63 stroker Turbo.
    '89 535is-RIP 2020, engine now in e30!
    '84 318is-RIP 2016.

    '89 535iA-Parted 2012
    94' 530iA-RIP 2004, engine in new 530i
    '78 530ia-first car RIP 2005

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Here it is basically today except I did put the grill back on and adjust the headlights (cause that driver side outer was waaaaaay off)
    20220703_143114.jpg

    20220703_143023.jpg

    I cut out the firewall opening for the DME harness from a O to more of a D to fit the factory e34 rubber grommet (with a bit of trimming). I think it is fairly water proof and certainly "good enough". Megasquirt is mounted in the factory DME location and I am quite proud of the bracket and everything. Creativity of custom mounting/fabbing things is not my strong point. I ran a 4 gauge wire from the factory e30 post at front right firewall into the glovebox for the DME and fuel pump relays. Then I added a relay for my AFR and other gauges using the dme relay power trigger wire, 12v off the 4 gauge bulkhead wire and ground to chassis. I get minimal difference for wideband readings between the Innovate gauge and tuner studio as I have seen others get up to a whole 1.0 discrepancy.



    Pics of MS2 mounting and a whole lot more to come, dun dun DUNNNN.....

    Currently have covid again for like the 50th time and cant go back to work where the car is at the moment. I feel like had I not been sick half the time last 2 years this would have been done much sooner and ready for racing this year. Oh well I hope todo the fall enduro event in Medford OR.

    Still need to fab the WHOLE exhaust and waste gate dump situation then I can put my cross bracing back on. Tons of clean up inside and in engine bay. Also I have a Corbeau FX-1 racing seat to install as the driver and the cheap driver seat will go to the passenger to replace the gross old factory cloth seat that was never supposed to be in the car this long...
    Slowly climbing the ladder. But never reach the top.
    Click Car 4 Build!
    '86 325es-Turbo m30!
    '94 325iA-Clean DD
    '94 530i
    -6 Spd swp
    '89 Cherokee 4x4-4.7L stroker
    '97 Eclipse Spyder-4g64/63 stroker Turbo.
    '89 535is-RIP 2020, engine now in e30!
    '84 318is-RIP 2016.

    '89 535iA-Parted 2012
    94' 530iA-RIP 2004, engine in new 530i
    '78 530ia-first car RIP 2005

  6. #6
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    Nice dude. As a fellow 325e owner, I envy your plastic bumpers.

  7. #7
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    Hey thanks Jon. I have followed your builds for so many years you are definitely an inspiration to my build, I'm just at the very beginning stages hah.

    I'm trying to learn tuning and megasquirt, without hurting the car.

    I got it running good on a m30 base tune map but ofc changed injector size and required fuel. But that was not made for boost so I scaled the fuel and timing maps to to 105 kpa of boost (205 on MS) and drove but I now have waaaaay too much timing.

    I then downloaded from efi analytics a m20 turbo tune that is similar to my build and adjusted settings for engine size ect then added fuel across the map.

    Got this to idle decent but it breaks up on revs and tried driving it bucks under light throttle and not right.

    My next step is to basically copy the ignition map from the m20 turbo tune to my m30 base tune modified for boost and go from there?

    If anyone has timing table they would like to share also that would be great to get an idea of what todo. I am aiming for 14 psi boost ultimately but right now just going off the 9psi WG spring.

    Any comments/advice is highly appreciated.
    Slowly climbing the ladder. But never reach the top.
    Click Car 4 Build!
    '86 325es-Turbo m30!
    '94 325iA-Clean DD
    '94 530i
    -6 Spd swp
    '89 Cherokee 4x4-4.7L stroker
    '97 Eclipse Spyder-4g64/63 stroker Turbo.
    '89 535is-RIP 2020, engine now in e30!
    '84 318is-RIP 2016.

    '89 535iA-Parted 2012
    94' 530iA-RIP 2004, engine in new 530i
    '78 530ia-first car RIP 2005

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by darknezz7 View Post
    Hey thanks Jon. I have followed your builds for so many years you are definitely an inspiration to my build, I'm just at the very beginning stages hah.

    I'm trying to learn tuning and megasquirt, without hurting the car.

    I got it running good on a m30 base tune map but ofc changed injector size and required fuel. But that was not made for boost so I scaled the fuel and timing maps to to 105 kpa of boost (205 on MS) and drove but I now have waaaaay too much timing.

    I then downloaded from efi analytics a m20 turbo tune that is similar to my build and adjusted settings for engine size ect then added fuel across the map.

    Got this to idle decent but it breaks up on revs and tried driving it bucks under light throttle and not right.

    My next step is to basically copy the ignition map from the m20 turbo tune to my m30 base tune modified for boost and go from there?

    If anyone has timing table they would like to share also that would be great to get an idea of what todo. I am aiming for 14 psi boost ultimately but right now just going off the 9psi WG spring.

    Any comments/advice is highly appreciated.
    Nice!

    My suggestion would be to look at other maps. It's been a while since I messed with 2v stuff but the basics are to decide what your boost level will be and frame out your kPa and RPM range of course. You can, for now, setup the kPa up to be linear meaning if you want to run 1 bar of boost, go from like 20 kPa to 200 kPa with like 16 kPa increments or whatever. Later, if you find you need more resolution (or lesss) in areas, you can adjust.

    Don't go crazy with timing and such yet if you are getting it running. If it's breaking up under part throttle you PROBABLY have an electrical/signal issue unless its horribly under-fueled. I would set your timing in and around idle to like 16 - 18 degrees on a stock M30 and fuel it properly there. Then, set EVERY timing bin to like 25 degrees outside of idle. It won't drive great, but it won't break either and you'll also not be battling anything timing based.

    Also do yourself a favor and actually check your timing advance. If you set your timing to multiples of 6 you can use a timing light and mark a tooth for 6, 12, 18 deg advance and make sure your timing is actually what you expect it to me. Set the whole map to 12 -18 deg and strobe the crank pulley, etc.

    If it's breaking up at that point part throttle, make sure your AFR is anywhere 11 - 15:1. If that's true, and breaking up, you've got signal issues. That's another thing all together so start there.

  9. #9
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    Hey thanks great suggestions.

    It was running great with the m30 base tune that i scaled for 15psi boost, then when I loaded the m20 turbo tune it ran bad, went back to other tune and ok. So its in the tune not a signal/interference or physical issue.

    I will adjust the timing on my m30 tune and go from there since it seems to run its just at the top is like 37* !!! and I heard it ping so backed off and returned to shop.

    Basically I think the timing map on the turbo m20 tune I have is good but the fuel map is waaaay off cause it was going super lean. So I am going to basically copy over the timing map to the m30 tune.

    I'll post a pic later of my maps.

    My AFR is probably not real accurate either as I just have that short dump tube after the turbo and the sensor is in that, hopefully exhaust will get built this weekend.

    Also does having a open dump WG affect AFR?
    Last edited by darknezz7; 07-13-2022 at 12:21 PM.
    Slowly climbing the ladder. But never reach the top.
    Click Car 4 Build!
    '86 325es-Turbo m30!
    '94 325iA-Clean DD
    '94 530i
    -6 Spd swp
    '89 Cherokee 4x4-4.7L stroker
    '97 Eclipse Spyder-4g64/63 stroker Turbo.
    '89 535is-RIP 2020, engine now in e30!
    '84 318is-RIP 2016.

    '89 535iA-Parted 2012
    94' 530iA-RIP 2004, engine in new 530i
    '78 530ia-first car RIP 2005

  10. #10
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    Here is a pic of my current maps, I know the timing map is still mess lots of smoothing out to be done.
    fuel timing maps.jpg

    My biggest question right now is: How do I tell when too much timing is too much when I do not have a knock sensor? Should I add a sensor or something else?
    Both my friends with MS on super charged miata and MR2 have knock sensors to help pull timing.

    Basically I went back to the m30 base tune with added fuel and reduced timing across areas to make it look more like the m20 boost map I downloaded that the car obviously did not like.

    Its now running really good actually, just going of the 9psi waste gate spring for now, AFR is between 11 and 12 during boost and 14 at idle and cruise. Ive turned auto tune on a few times too but its only been driven about 8 miles.

    I have played with the timing a lot at idle to get the most vacuum and this is where it is most happy. My car lives in the 40-50kpa (14 to 15 inhg vacuum) range between 700 and 1000rpm. Its not much but remember I have a mild cam and it may get better with a full exhaust.

    Here is the mega squirt mounting, still gotta clean up the replay wiring.
    20220716_131315.jpg

    I got the down pipe section of the exhaust done over the weekend. My welding is not the best but it did get better toward the end... On the part you cant see from the hood ofc, oh well it will all get wrapped up to cut down on heat and protect components.

    I wanted the top section to be easily removable from the top of the car for access, then there will be another v band a bit further down the second pipe just after the trans brace area. The wideband o2 sensor is in the top 90* joint.

    20220716_174407.jpg

    My best welds, at the end...
    20220716_174416.jpg

    I thought my flex pipe sections where stainless but turns out they were not but I just wanted to make some progress and used them anyway. I plan to but some silver exhaust paint on just the flex pipe section to protect the welds and the whole this is gonna get wrapped.

    Hmm guess I did not get a pic of it in car yet.

    Theres no room for the waste gate pipe to go down only up at and angle towards the wheel arch, not sure what I am going todo about that.

    Anyway once I have the exhaust done I can do some more driving and tuning woo!

    Last edited by darknezz7; 07-18-2022 at 07:34 PM.
    Slowly climbing the ladder. But never reach the top.
    Click Car 4 Build!
    '86 325es-Turbo m30!
    '94 325iA-Clean DD
    '94 530i
    -6 Spd swp
    '89 Cherokee 4x4-4.7L stroker
    '97 Eclipse Spyder-4g64/63 stroker Turbo.
    '89 535is-RIP 2020, engine now in e30!
    '84 318is-RIP 2016.

    '89 535iA-Parted 2012
    94' 530iA-RIP 2004, engine in new 530i
    '78 530ia-first car RIP 2005

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by darknezz7 View Post
    Here is a pic of my current maps, I know the timing map is still mess lots of smoothing out to be done.
    fuel timing maps.jpg

    My biggest question right now is: How do I tell when too much timing is too much when I do not have a knock sensor? Should I add a sensor or something else?
    You will need a dyno or some other sort of knock sensing added to the motor to know when you're knocking - in the mean time if you know how to read plugs then you can do that as well to see how happy the motor is and how close you are on the fueling and timing curves when done right.

    Both my friends with MS on super charged miata and MR2 have knock sensors to help pull timing.
    KS are there to help you after you've correctly mapped the car - however with most aftermarket systems you will need a tool to correctly configure and verify that the KS setup is actually doing what it is supposed to do, when it's supposed to do it otherwise you can really get into trouble.

  12. #12
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    I'm using a knock sense unit with my ms2. It uses stock m30 ks's. It has to be tuned, with a sensitivity screw on the pcb. I really like it. I have the led light mounted in the a pillar gauge pods, so it blinds me, and I lift immediately. It still hasn't stopped me from popping hg's, but now I know when I did it.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the replies! I think I am going to get in there and drill/tap the boss's so I too can have knock sensors. Looking at my boss/shop owners m30 with the 745i head (not together yet but crazy forged build for 20psi of super charger! Im jealous of his block.) today I see the spots for the ks's which are already threaded on his head.

    I should not have said "both my friends have knock sensors to pull timing" more like they used the ks on a dyno to up timing until hitting that threshold then backed off some and so theoretically should never be pinging but its added insurance.

    Looking at the plugs is how I "tuned" my Jeep, modified distributor so it could be moved, added a pot to the map sensor for fine adjustment and adjusted tps til it was all happy. Considering nothing is really stock anymore and it runs as good as it does on the factory Renix dme is impressive to me.


    Right now regardless of choppy and retarded timing its running pretty damn good and pulling hard.

    I need todo some definite heat management between the exhaust and the spark wires though it gets freaken hot!!! Thinking header wrap, plug wire insulator boots and some kinda of heat shield. At the same time I want to ditch the stock ignition system and do 3 msd wasted spark coils.

    Sooo much still todo to make this thing safe for longer drives/track.

    Quick pic in the sun. Yes ignition coil wire is disconnected cause after this last drive I was afraid it was gonna melt where it was add, basically I need to make it longer and reroute.
    20220719_182508.jpg
    Last edited by darknezz7; 07-20-2022 at 01:29 AM.
    Slowly climbing the ladder. But never reach the top.
    Click Car 4 Build!
    '86 325es-Turbo m30!
    '94 325iA-Clean DD
    '94 530i
    -6 Spd swp
    '89 Cherokee 4x4-4.7L stroker
    '97 Eclipse Spyder-4g64/63 stroker Turbo.
    '89 535is-RIP 2020, engine now in e30!
    '84 318is-RIP 2016.

    '89 535iA-Parted 2012
    94' 530iA-RIP 2004, engine in new 530i
    '78 530ia-first car RIP 2005

  14. #14
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    Aaaahhhhhh the good old E30 M30 turbo swap……
    I remember the days……fun times and driving…….

    Looking very nice.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by e34biturbo View Post
    Aaaahhhhhh the good old E30 M30 turbo swap……
    I remember the days……fun times and driving…….

    Looking very nice.

    Hey thanks! I've also followed your builds for many years another true inspiration. I went this route because well I had the whole engine transplant with mods, PNP megasquirt, and the turbo was given to me after I put a bigger one on a guys truck


    The car is currently driving good! It was 100* here for a week and not much got done on it for a bit but the exhaust is all done, not all the welds are so pretty but could be ground down later.
    My new driver seat is in and moved driver one to pass side finally got rid of that old factory ugly cloth seat.

    20220806_200454.jpg
    Its a Corbeau fx1 seat, super comfortable, hard mounted.

    I had todo some serious heat management and wrapped all my ignition wires plus the heat shield boots, seems to be working.

    20220730_150854.jpg

    Here it is as of now.
    I now have a dump tube on the wastegate and when shifting it shoots flames! Looks awesome haha, its SOOO damn loud though I didnt think about how loud a WG would be. Its going to get plumbed into exhaust at some point but I might have to notch the frame or something to make it pass by the manifold.

    20220806_200402.jpg 20220806_200343.jpg

    The other day we had 4 (including mine) e30's at the shop, I didnt get a chance to line them all up and take a pic but heres one of em we just did a bunch of work too.

    20220731_182528.jpg
    Last edited by darknezz7; 08-11-2022 at 07:20 PM.
    Slowly climbing the ladder. But never reach the top.
    Click Car 4 Build!
    '86 325es-Turbo m30!
    '94 325iA-Clean DD
    '94 530i
    -6 Spd swp
    '89 Cherokee 4x4-4.7L stroker
    '97 Eclipse Spyder-4g64/63 stroker Turbo.
    '89 535is-RIP 2020, engine now in e30!
    '84 318is-RIP 2016.

    '89 535iA-Parted 2012
    94' 530iA-RIP 2004, engine in new 530i
    '78 530ia-first car RIP 2005

  16. #16
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    Here is the exhaust

    20220730_152536.jpg

    In this pic the resonator is not clocked right at the vband so looks goofy.
    20220730_152553.jpg

    20220730_194649.jpg

    20220730_194707.jpg

    Its not the prettiest and I crushed it abit too much at the rear subframe but it does not scrape the ground, does not move around (lots of solid rubber bushing hangers) does not leak and sounds great!
    Plus its in 3 sections with vband so individually removable, like the top piece todo plugs, get to wastegate, ect.



    aannd just for lawls

    20220730_194923.jpg

    Left over pipe fit right into the muffler heh.
    Last edited by darknezz7; 08-11-2022 at 07:18 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Now on to some actual questions I have and advice on tune.

    Ive been logging and after my most recent tune where I found a similar build who shared their conservative ignition table (which I basically copied but went another 2* lower in each field) the car felt super amazing. Ive still only been taking short 4 mile trips down the straight test road and when I Looked at the log I made almost 19 psi at one point.... It was after a take off and I was spinning tires not really meaning too. The wastegate spring is SUPPOSED to be 9 psi but I have not opened it to confirm.

    Here is that high boost section of log, note how my afrs suddenly started to rise to mid 12s at higher boost thats where my fuel table scaling cut off and it was just guessing.
    too much boost log.png

    My friends say waste gates are known to be inaccurate and go way over boost. Its a turbo smart 44mm wg.

    So I put my turbo smart manual boost controller in line between the compressor and wg vac line, turned it all the way down and now its making around 15 psi which is what I was ultimately shooting for.

    Why am I making so much boost is there something wrong with my waste gate or was it sent with an incorrect spring possibly? Before my tuning it was only making about 11 psi so I assume because its running so much better its making more boost.


    Here is my ignition timing map now, again copied a similar but went down 2* in boost areas.

    current timing map 8.11.22jpg.jpg

    Please tell me what you think. Its very conservative and I'm going to try and setup knock sensors using the knock sense kit.


    Here is a highlighted WOT section from the log with the current tune.
    log wot section.png

    My AFRS have been great, between 11 and 12 under boost, 14 at idle and cruise and I'm getting 16-17 inhg vacuum now with more timing at idle. Starts and idles on cold a bit lopey but smooths out after about 30 seconds.


    The only other concern I have at the moment is during a wide open throttle pull I "think" I feel little hicups like very tiny misfires.
    Im wondering if I could be maxing out the stock ignition system or spark blowout? My plugs are ngk copper 2 step colder gapped to .028, I believe anyway, I should pull them and see how they look...

    Thanks for any advice, praise and criticism.



    Oh and heres a video driving on the road! This was on the old tune and did maybe no wide open throttle yet and is with just the down pipe piece installed so dumping just past the control arm bushing. Now that the exhaust is built and car is tuned more Im working on a new vid show casing the whole thing off more stay "tuned".

    Last edited by darknezz7; 08-11-2022 at 09:06 PM.
    Slowly climbing the ladder. But never reach the top.
    Click Car 4 Build!
    '86 325es-Turbo m30!
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    '84 318is-RIP 2016.

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by darknezz7 View Post
    Now on to some actual questions I have and advice on tune.

    The wastegate spring is SUPPOSED to be 9 psi but I have not opened it to confirm.

    My friends say waste gates are known to be inaccurate and go way over boost. Its a turbo smart 44mm wg.
    Your friend is wrong - this has everything to do with the turbo manifold and bad placement of the WG tube. Unfortunately it's quite common place for people to make manifolds that have bad WG placements (like yours does).

    TS Wastegates are very good and the spring ratings are accurate. Another reason for more can be (extremely) retarded ignition tables causing an almost anti-lag type of situation, and pushing a lot of heat into the manifold (and therefore turbo) so you removing timing can also add to this.

    The only other concern I have at the moment is during a wide open throttle pull I "think" I feel little hicups like very tiny misfires.
    Im wondering if I could be maxing out the stock ignition system or spark blowout? My plugs are ngk copper 2 step colder gapped to .028, I believe anyway, I should pull them and see how they look...
    Just gap the plugs down to 0.022 and see if the misfire goes away - if it does you know you're just at the limit of your ign. system. Nothing wrong with running a smaller gap either way.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    Your friend is wrong - this has everything to do with the turbo manifold and bad placement of the WG tube. Unfortunately it's quite common place for people to make manifolds that have bad WG placements (like yours does).

    TS Wastegates are very good and the spring ratings are accurate. Another reason for more can be (extremely) retarded ignition tables causing an almost anti-lag type of situation, and pushing a lot of heat into the manifold (and therefore turbo) so you removing timing can also add to this.

    [B]

    Just gap the plugs down to 0.022 and see if the misfire goes away - if it does you know you're just at the limit of your ign. system. Nothing wrong with running a smaller gap either way.





    Thanks for the advice I will gap down the plugs and see if that helps.


    So should I raise my timing to basically the map I found? We only get 91 octane here at most stations and Im trying to keep it on pump. I just dont know how much timing I can run and without KS I dont have any reference other than feeling pinging and Id rather avoid that.

    Here is a comparison of my current timing and the map I based it off of which was a m30 similar mods as mine 15 psi on pump gas. Mine is on the top.
    current map and comparison.jpg


    As far as the WG thing goes, its a rapidspool manifold from Germany, basically the only style available and I thought it was the best? I can see tho since the WG pipe just comes off the collector at a 90* angle how exhaust would not want to flow through it and out the gate.

    So I guess there is not much I can do about that. It seems to be around 15 psi with the boost controller inline now and I turned on over boost protection at 220kpa (17.4 psi).
    Last edited by darknezz7; 08-12-2022 at 08:00 PM.
    Slowly climbing the ladder. But never reach the top.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by darknezz7 View Post
    Thanks for the advice I will gap down the plugs and see if that helps.


    So should I raise my timing to basically the map I found? We only get 91 octane here at most stations and Im trying to keep it on pump. I just dont know how much timing I can run and without KS I dont have any reference other than feeling pinging and Id rather avoid that.

    Here is a comparison of my current timing and the map I based it off of which was a m30 similar mods as mine 15 psi on pump gas. Mine is on the top.
    current map and comparison.jpg
    At some point you will simply just have to actually tune it (or have it tuned) - no one can tell you anything about your setup and tuning or where you are with it over the internet.


    As far as the WG thing goes, its a rapidspool manifold from Germany, basically the only style available and I thought it was the best? I can see tho since the WG pipe just comes off the collector at a 90* angle how exhaust would not want to flow through it and out the gate.

    So I guess there is not much I can do about that. It seems to be around 15 psi with the boost controller inline now and I turned on over boost protection at 220kpa (17.4 psi).
    Rapidspool manifolds just aren't great manifolds - From what I understand they're an Otis designed manifold made/produced in China. They're heavy, they crack, and most have bad WG priority/placement. Not unique to Rapidspool manifolds or this platform actually. Most manifold designers get this part wrong (sometimes due to constraints) unfortunately. The one upside to boost creep is that if you can keep it within a level that works for you and your setup you get a naturally rising TQ curve which means more power and a very linear delivery which generally means a fast car.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    Rapidspool manifolds just aren't great manifolds - From what I understand they're an Otis designed manifold made/produced in China. They're heavy, they crack, and most have bad WG priority/placement. Not unique to Rapidspool manifolds or this platform actually. Most manifold designers get this part wrong (sometimes due to constraints) unfortunately.
    Got to say that having had an M50 RS mani in my hands, there was just no way I was going to use it...

    I built my own 6-1 tube mani that I took great care to craft the best merge that I could. No funny angles, no weld dags, no steps. Then I went and bored a hole close up under the T3 flange and expected it to work. The lads here on this forum told me that it would boost creep like an SOB, and they were right. I ended up closing up the hole and then boring a hole for the WG off the scroll of the turbine housing, and that worked perfectly.

    My take on it: Gasses in the merge collector are high speed, low pressure. Gasses in the turbine volute are high pressure, low speed. The gas in the collector has basically f'all reason to want to take a 90 degree turn and head on down the WG, and this is bourne out in the terrible boost creep.

    Even with a 90 degree port off the side of the volute, the same Turbosmart WG has zero problem running a solid 9psi on spring only. Placement matters!
    1989 E30 - M50B28 Turbo - ZF 8 Speed

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutzy View Post
    Got to say that having had an M50 RS mani in my hands, there was just no way I was going to use it...

    I built my own 6-1 tube mani that I took great care to craft the best merge that I could. No funny angles, no weld dags, no steps. Then I went and bored a hole close up under the T3 flange and expected it to work. The lads here on this forum told me that it would boost creep like an SOB, and they were right. I ended up closing up the hole and then boring a hole for the WG off the scroll of the turbine housing, and that worked perfectly.

    My take on it: Gasses in the merge collector are high speed, low pressure. Gasses in the turbine volute are high pressure, low speed. The gas in the collector has basically f'all reason to want to take a 90 degree turn and head on down the WG, and this is bourne out in the terrible boost creep.

    Even with a 90 degree port off the side of the volute, the same Turbosmart WG has zero problem running a solid 9psi on spring only. Placement matters!

    I got the brand wrong its not a rapidspools It is a Team2Fast manifold and it WAS from Germany I remember the postage stamp on the box. It is the same design but quality looked amazing great welds in and out, thick flange and it was all smoothly ground down at the collector and flange, it was also purchased over 3 years ago before I saw the china copies that are out now.

    Regardless I totally understand about the exhaust not wanting to take a 90* turn that all makes perfect sense on whats going on.

    But yes spool is great and looking at logs it builds up nice and is very linear until certain situations usually end of 2nd or 3rd gear pulls from a stop above 5500 rpm the boost starts quickly rising then hits boost cut and flames come out WG dump... Thats probably not good to let happen I suppose but it looks really cool haha...

    Speaking of boost cut, should I be cutting timing AND fuel? Right now its just timing cause I didnt want to go lean but If I cut fuel too then it should not do the flames right?

    My rev limit right now is set to 6200 hard timing and fuel cut but it starts a soft timing cut at 6000 and so far the highest revs I have logged was 6081. The WG is SO DAMN LOUD at that point I want to shift just to save my ears...

    Other than all that after driving ~130 miles I tightened up all the exhaust manifold nuts, checked over all the drive train hardware and just thoroughly looked over everything and it all seems to be ok so far and its running great!


    Also I pulled my spark plugs and they were already gapped to .024 so I just left them alone. Here is a pic of one, they all looked the same, I realize now the pic is not very good but the color on the strap was almost down to where its welded on so I could have a bit more timing I think and the ceramic was white at least half way down the plug (I dont have a way to cut the plug apart) so seems to be about right AFR.
    20220820_151159.jpg


    At this point I plan to cut and weld a fitting onto the exhaust turbine housing for the WG as that seems the best solution for controllable boost. Does anyone have anymore pics of it being done like I am not sure how to cut into the housing?

    Also if I had built my motor up more I could just boost to the moon.... $$$$

    Thanks everyone! I need all the help I can get on this its been quite a project!
    Last edited by darknezz7; 08-21-2022 at 03:53 PM.
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  23. #23
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    Don't cut fuel! You need a wideband, and data logging to properly tune the car. An afr of about 11.5 is generally safe for moderate boost. A knock sensor light also helps to tune to avoid detonation, the death of many a turbo headgasket.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc79euro635 View Post
    Don't cut fuel! You need a wideband, and data logging to properly tune the car. An afr of about 11.5 is generally safe for moderate boost. A knock sensor light also helps to tune to avoid detonation, the death of many a turbo headgasket.

    Innovate wideband and megasquirt. I log every time I drive, AFRs are fine.

    Im using both spark AND fuel cut now for rev limit and over boost, its no longer shooting flames but now on WOT pull shifts it puffs a quick flame ball. I was also messing with fuel table and think I made it too rich.

    Currently Im working on building the auto tune AFR table.

    How bad am I hurting it with the flames? Also whose got bets on how long the engine will last hitting 17 psi haha (ARP studs with factory composite gasket)

    If its not already damaged...
    Slowly climbing the ladder. But never reach the top.
    Click Car 4 Build!
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    '94 325iA-Clean DD
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    '89 Cherokee 4x4-4.7L stroker
    '97 Eclipse Spyder-4g64/63 stroker Turbo.
    '89 535is-RIP 2020, engine now in e30!
    '84 318is-RIP 2016.

    '89 535iA-Parted 2012
    94' 530iA-RIP 2004, engine in new 530i
    '78 530ia-first car RIP 2005

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by darknezz7 View Post
    Innovate wideband and megasquirt. I log every time I drive, AFRs are fine.

    Im using both spark AND fuel cut now for rev limit and over boost, its no longer shooting flames but now on WOT pull shifts it puffs a quick flame ball. I was also messing with fuel table and think I made it too rich.

    Currently Im working on building the auto tune AFR table.

    How bad am I hurting it with the flames? Also whose got bets on how long the engine will last hitting 17 psi haha (ARP studs with factory composite gasket)

    If its not already damaged...

    Lots of questions above, we'd love to try and help. Thanks for doing killer stuff with our products man!

    I see questions about ignition timing, fuel enrichment, flames , open dump wastegates, optional sensors, etc.... but I couldn't tell what you've had answered and what you haven't in many cases. Except for obviously your most recent post:

    -Flames out of the exhaust are caused by fuel that's still unburnt and/or burning as it exits the exhaust valves. It'll burn in the exhaust pipe, and can still be burning when it exits the exhaust pipe. Why is it in there instead of burning in the cylinders? Typically either just too much fuel to completely burn, or ignition that's a bit on the retarded side (or a lot) that starts the burn process later in the engine cycle leaving it uncomplete when the exhaust valve opens. Too rich AND ignition retarded is the combo that'll make it happen the most. And yes-- It can be hard on exhaust valves, turbos, cats, etc.


    I'll try and drop back by, but for your questions in general- we have a book that I co-wrote that might help: Performance Fuel Injection Systems

    Also check out this series I'm writing now that is a work in process, but will likely help a lot as it comes together: The EFI Tuners Guide - Learn how to install/configure/tune EFI

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, and hit our team up at support@diyautotune.com if we can help! I'll try and monitor this forum as well, sometimes I'll be able to respond quickly, sometimes maybe not... but the team mans that email every day!
    Jerry a.k.a. 'FoundSoul'
    http://www.DIYAutoTune.com

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