Convertible top guru needed

[Grtrnd1]

Not sure where my last post went, so I'll try again. My son purchased a 05 BMW 330ci. The top wont go down. No red light blinking unless the trunk is open. The underneath motor will run, pull the arm back, click and then the windshield lock motor will start spinning and just spin forever if you hold the button down. You can't manually raise the front or back of the top. Even manually releasing the motor under the seat will not release the back of the top from the deck lid. Cant even manually spin the windshiel lock because it will just spin till your arm falls off and doesn't seem to be doing anything.. Can't seem to find a way to access the windshield lock motor because the plastic trim cover won't come off. Took 4 screws out and I don't want to break it. Any other things to try? Boys 19 and wants this top working. First BMW and it's a really nice car. Thanks for any help.

[E39 Newbie]

First, the most obvious. Is the "luggage space enhancer" in the trunk pulled down? If it's up the top won't go down for love, nor money, as Mom used to say.

[fumigator]

+1 for luggage space lever. exercise it to ensure proper reading. mine can get dodgy sometimes.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[Grtrnd1]

Yes the luggage thing is down. I've moved it up and down several times. I'm not understanding why the windshield lock motor, even in manual mode with the supplied Allen wrench, just spins and does nothing. I think the gear is broke but I can't even get it released from the windshield to fold it part way back to fix it.

[E39 Newbie]

Yes the luggage thing is down. I've moved it up and down several times. I'm not understanding why the windshield lock motor, even in manual mode with the supplied Allen wrench, just spins and does nothing. I think the gear is broke but I can't even get it released from the windshield to fold it part way back to fix it.

I get the feeling you got a "really good deal" on this car. I, too, have a 'vert but I've never had to work on the roof. It seems to be the only part of the car the PO actually maintained.

[All2kool]

First, the most obvious. Is the "luggage space enhancer" in the trunk pulled down? If it's up the top won't go down for love, nor money, as Mom used to say.

The convertible roof does nothing whatsoever if the trunk is in 'full luggage' mode. The OP said he hears something whirring - that indicates the trunk is NOT in 'full luggage' mode.

[Grtrnd1]

Yes he did get a good deal on this car but still doesn't mean we can't try to get the top fixed. It's the only thing on the car that doesn't work.

[All2kool]

YI'm not understanding why the windshield lock motor, even in manual mode with the supplied Allen wrench, just spins and does nothing. I think the gear is broke but I can't even get it released from the windshield to fold it part way back to fix it.

Your assessment is likely spot-on. The plastic gears in the roof latch are prone to breakage after many years. I've read on other forums that the solution requires a reciprocating saw.

[Grtrnd1]

Yes sir, the underneath motor will spin, pull 2 cables tight, click, then the windshield lock motor will just free spin till you run the battery dead if you wanted to hold the button that long. I think it's the windshield motor gear but how in the heck would you release the lock from the windshield if you can't access it.

[Grtrnd1]

Reciprocating saw? Lol. Damn. I was hoping for an easier solution. Push comes to shove, though, I will use it, if that's the last resort.

[E39 Newbie]

Yes he did get a good deal on this car but still doesn't mean we can't try to get the top fixed. It's the only thing on the car that doesn't work.

That goes without saying. Of course you have to fix it, there's no point to having a 'vert if you can't open the top. My point was that the PO knew about this, knew how difficult the fix was going to be, and passed it on to somebody else, knowing that the car was worth substantially less than whatever was paid for it, all the while stressing what a great deal the buyer was getting.

I guess that's what irritates me the most about these cars - the idiot and/or dishonest owners. They neglect the crap out of their car until the problems pile up, then fob it off on some unsuspecting mark. (I'm not referring to you). I'm in another group, and some poor sap paid $3K for what he though was a clean E46 sedan. First BMW, pride of ownership, cool car, etc. The head gasket failed in the first week. It's things like this that really put a burr under my saddle. I'm very sorry your son got rooked on this deal.

[E39 Newbie]

Your assessment is likely spot-on. The plastic gears in the roof latch are prone to breakage after many years. I've read on other forums that the solution requires a reciprocating saw.

Along those lines, what are the symptoms of a failing gear? I know other parts, like the window regulators, often make a cracking noise some time before the pulleys disintegrate. Any signs of failing gears before they completely come apart?

[Grtrnd1]

We knew the top didn't work, that was the first thing they told us. They said they used to put it down manually but haven't yet this year. I can't get my son to leave the car home long enough today to look at anything else. Lol.

[E39 Newbie]

We knew the top didn't work, that was the first thing they told us. They said they used to put it down manually but haven't yet this year. I can't get my son to leave the car home long enough today to look at anything else. Lol.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not criticizing you. A seller can't hide the fact that a convertible top doesn't work. We used to put it down manually but we just haven't this year. Right. Because we tried and found the top is FUBAR and we don't want to spend to fix it. But he lets on like it's fine in manual mode. I've been screwed by seller's lies of omission, too.

I don't blame your kid. I remember what it was like to have your first car and the freedom that brought. You can overlook a lot of stuff that an adult might not. I realize it's his first BMW, not his first car, but I get it.

Please keep us posted on your saga. I'm interested because I hope to avoid the same problem.

[All2kool]

Along those lines, what are the symptoms of a failing gear?

The inability to open the front using the Hex wrench is a dead giveaway for that.

[E39 Newbie]

The inability to open the front using the Hex wrench is a dead giveaway for that.

LOL. Thanks. I was hoping for a clue to failing gears somewhere between operational and total failure.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Hey OP, I posted a long post about this, and about my adventures of swapping out the frame on my 2001 330 on your other thread about this. To be clear, have you gotten to turn the latches manually yet? If you can hear your motor up front turning, than it is the BS plastic housing on the latches that are all cracked up at this age. Mine were like that, but still working. I COATED THEM WITH JBWeld and fiberglass to keep them together.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

From your other thread:

Originally Posted by ConvGeorge
Sounds like something is stripped in the windshield lock mechanism, and you're right it is a PITA to get in there. The cables in the back just lock down the lid. However, the lid can't open until the windshield locks release and the front rises up a bit. The next step (that you aren't getting to) is the rear of the top will lift up to a vertical position, and then the rear lid will rise up, and then the top will fold down into it's compartment. Finally the lid will come back down and the cables will pull the latches tight, holding it into place. To rehash, the way the linkages in the top work, the back can't lift up until the windshield locks are released and the front of the top rises up.



Hey guys, Snotty here from the E39 pages, I bought a 2001 330ci convertible back in December 2021, first BMW I have gotten that wasn’t a 5 series, got it for a good price because as usual, it had some issues. I concentrated on the mechanical issues first, valve cover gasket, was leaking out some oil, and causing misfires, that’s all done, got a cam sensor code, it was the intake, I went ahead and replaced both intake, and exhaust sensors, engine runs like a champ now, replaced the tie rods, and everything else is in excellent condition, suspension wise. Car has 85,000 on the clock, and is in Topas Blue, absolutely love the car. But I did get it as a flipper, I like my E39 wagons!

Anyway, reason I’m blabbing over here, the main reason I got the car for a steal, the convertible top’s frame was all screwed up. The frame had 2 spars that were all mangled up on the drivers side, right where the linkages all converge aft of the rear quarter window. The paint on the quarter is not factory, I think the car got a new quarter, and the body shop didn’t place the roof back on properly lined up. I asked the old owner about this, he admitted that the car did get hit, and the shop did replace the whole quarter. So they pulled the roof up on that one side, cut the quarter out and welded a new one in. The roof mangled itself three years after the repair. So that whole time, it was working, but stressing itself out until one day, the two links mangled themselves up. The fellow I bought it from, had picked up a good used frame for $300, and realized he was in way over his head. When the local BMW shop out here in Arlington quoted him $3500 to swap it all over, he decided to sell the car. I know all those guys at that independent shop, they gave him that crazy price because they really did not want to tackle the swap.

I saw his ad, gave him a call and asked what was wrong with the car….. when I checked the car out, the Topas Blue had me look past all the issues, and bought it. Car came with all kinds of extras, car cover, the windscreen that you set up behind the front seats so your hairdo doesn’t go bananas, a cabin cloth cover in case you are too lazy to press the button and put the top back up, the cover is a pain to put on, you might as well press the stupid button…., and a Bentley shop book.

So as summer rolled in, I decided to rip the old frame out. I had never done the roof on one of these convertibles, so it was an eye opening experience. I am not a noob, I have been working on cars, motorcycles, and even airplanes for a very long time, have all the tools one would ever need, so yeah, the roof didn’t scare me off. Don’t get me wrong, it was a total pain in the butt, but in the end, I have a pretty nice 330ci convertible with a working top.

ConvGeorge has it right. The front locks have to let go and lift the front of the top up a few inches before the rear section can unlock and lift up. The box under the rear seat is the latch release mechanism for the latches that lock the tonneau down. So if the front section is not releasing, nothing will move in the rear.

Op, if you are still dealing with this, the problem you have is that the two latch locks up in the front of the tops frame are metal worm drives on each side of the front end, turned by a single motor in the middle. The problem is, the metal wormdrive latches are molded over with ABS plastic, which then holds the latches in place. The ABS plastic they used is most probably all cracked up, and is now binding up. Mine were like that too, although they were working fine. When I saw the cracks, I knew they were currently still ok, but not if you started working the top again, I coated them up with JB weld and fiberglass tape to keep it all in one piece, and in place, properly. If that is not why your latches are releasing, maybe the motor is bad, or the fuse is blown, might be something stupid as that. But for everyone reading this, if you have an E46 convertible, with the front of the roof released, pull the header panel off and inspect your latches. I’m betting my left nut, every E46 convertibles latches have the cracked ABS housings at this age. Inspect yours, when you see the cracked plastic, do what I did with JBWeld and some fiberglass to keep it together.
I checked those latches out on eBay, all the set being sold had the same stress cracks, some were worse than mine.

I had to strip the old roof down to save everything but the old frame, transfer everything over into the used new one. Thats everything as in all the hydraulic lines, the wiring harnesses, the two position sensors, the hydraulic rams, the cloth top, and the headliner. As I got done, I was a little low on hydraulic fluid, turns out, I didn’t have to run to the store, they use Pentosin CHF11S, same as in the power steering on all my cars. I have cycled the top at least 30-40 times by now, and all is good. Now the sad part, time to list it and say goodbye. I will be listing it locally, here in the Northern Virginia area. Good luck with yours!

[sgtfury40]

What happens is there are two motors in the top that run the latch mechanism. The plastic gears are prone to, and will eventually, crack and break. Once that happens, the latch has nothing to to bite on to open and close the latch. I replaced mine about 6 months ago.