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Similar to quite a few on here, no, no IG or FB for me. So I guess we won't be doing business.
Member
^^^^^^^^^^^ This!Originally Posted by aeronaut
An email with some pictures is not hard or time consuming.
[IMG][/IMG]
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I answer emails, phone calls, hand written letters…not a problem, again I make myself available to all, even people that have no intention of purchasing anything. Really interested in setting records and furthering the platform. Zemaestro@aol.com..pm for phone info.
GDM ENGINEERING
Member
FYI, I reached out to GDM via email, and got no useful info.
Member
Did you try a handwritten letter?
Member
Hilarious!
googling for "GDM carrier pigion service" now.
Member
...WOW...this is the equivalent of watching my grandfather yelling at kids to get off his lawn...
Member
LOL.
FYI, I eventually had a few email exchanges with GDM.
Member
And the out come?
Member
I hope I get this right, some of this is from memory....He's basically selling a different ATI damper (for GM engines I believe) mounted on his custom adapter for S52/50 engines. A few hundred bucks cheaper than the ATI damper, but requires some custom fitting of his adapter. He does say more options are available, like undersize pulley, and says his setup is good for "9000 rpm and 1200hp".
I passed.
I now believe these engines are sensitive to flywheel and damper changes, and there are combinations that make things better and some that make things worse. I'm not convinced "a" damper works with all flywheels. This comes from discussions from multiple race-engine builders, and limited personal experience or knowledge on torsional harmonics.
In other words, F*K if I know.
📷: @nholmes74
I think that was a smart move. You don't want to be that guy's personal QC tester. It's hard to argue with all of the time and money BMW has for research and engineering.
Member
I think some high power turbo builds use the GDM. Different from track use, though. I have the VAC damper on my built turbo S52. No issues, but I had none with the stock damper. No track use, 7200 rpm limiter, 264/252 Schricks.
Member
Providing the feedback I have thus far. I've now ran the GDM race damper setup on my S52 powered endurance racecar to 8000-8300 rpm shifts for about 20 hours total of track time. I make power up there with my s52, so I rev it out (s54 itbs, 275/275 cat cams, etc...). No issues thus far.
I'll be putting another one on this car/engine too, since its been working well thus far for the endurance racecar and others. It's a S52 e36 racecar, I plan on spinning to 9000rpm on track, maybe more if the engine continues to make power and not fall off much. I'll plan to report back on any issues, failures, and successes I may have. Hopefully, we can add some more empirical data to this discussion.
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Last edited by Talperian; 01-01-2024 at 11:29 PM.
Member
Repeated spins over 8000 on an S52 crank? That's supposed to be IMPOSSIBLE!
What's your peak HP and TQ?
What flywheel are you running?
I know your engine cost more than an S54, but very oool!
|m| (-.-) |m|
BMW E36 M3 Expert
It's not impossible ... we ran our M54 (same crank as s52) to over 8000 for many races. ATI damper. The actual iron block S52 we had after the M54s did fail with rod bearings though (same damper). Maybe in the M564 the slightly lower mass pistons make a difference, I dunno.
Member
Cool info. That's exactly what Fisher (Fisher Made Horsepower) told me the failure mode was for a high rev S52; rod bearings.
Member
Impossible according to who?
300whp/230wtq.
I can't remember the specific flywheel, it's a chromoly one that weighs 14lbs or so.
Cost more than an s54? That would depend on the S54. The engine pictured is going to make over 400whp SAE on a dynojet, naturally aspirated, according to my predictions. That isn't a stock junkyard S54, if those even exist anymore.
Given the M54 is using the same crank and connecting rod/bearing combination, I am curious what the mode of failure was. Can you provide any more data? Oil pressure of each engine, bearing type, main and rod bearing clearance of the m54's vs. S52's?
I've spent some time getting the reciprocating mass down, I have no real data as to whether it will actually make a difference. As we tested for 3 days straight on the dyno an s52 that ran 315g pistons and 135mm/530g rods to 9000rpm+ (also GDM/ATI damper equipped S52, then autocross and street driving to 8500rpm. Here is a video from one of the runs/days.
The piston/pin/rod setup in my 400whp S52 engine, which I will be firing up within the next couple of weeks, is a bit lighter than stock, about 13% lighter. 300g 87mm piston (large positive dome,14.6:1 CR mind you), 86g pin, 459g rod (not a bmw rod).2024-01-02 16_04_33-Window.png2024-01-02 16_04_48-Window.png2024-01-02 16_04_58-Window.png
I assume you meant Fletcher...so the same failures as an S54?
Last edited by Talperian; 01-02-2024 at 08:02 PM.
Member
Yea, sorry, Fletcher. "Same" rod bearing failure as S54, I have no idea.
Member
Any additional info on what caused the rod bearings to fail on these high revving s52s built by Fletcher?
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Member
Nope, I asked a casual question about the S52 crank and rpm limits, and he said the rod bearings are what fails. I didn't get details of root cause.
I'm not even sure the failures were his builds.
EDIT: clarity for future searches. Fletcher was talking about running any S52 crank consistenly over ~7400rpm.
Last edited by aeronaut; 01-02-2024 at 08:36 PM.
Member
Out of curiosity, which oil pump are you using and what oil pressure are you using/seeing?
Last edited by bluptgm3; 01-02-2024 at 11:14 PM.
Member
What fuel is being used on the 14.6:1 CR S52? Expensive race gas or E85? 400 rwhp is expensive but that is a fully built —top and bottom end — motor with solid lifted conversion and probably radical cams. Are the cams strretable? I am trying to figure out whether this incredibly high power S52 should be compared to an S54 or not — you can have a 93 pump gas stock block S54 make close to 350 rwhp with cams that are streetable thanks to dual vanos.
Member
I'm not an expert on S54's, but im not aware of any stock block S54's making 400rwhp on pump gas, or being "streetable" engines. So it wouldn't be a valid comparison.
What would be, is a pump gas vs. pump gas engine comparison. I've been thinking about putting together a "street" s52 with select components, including the above cylinder head package. Once I get a few more tests completed regarding camshaft timing and tuning.
As far as the cams being streetable, we've already determined cams such as the cat 298/290 12.5mm/12mm to be relatively tame on the street. We will be doing some testing with the single vanos soon.
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Last edited by Talperian; 01-03-2024 at 11:02 AM.
|m| (-.-) |m|
BMW E36 M3 Expert
I posted my specs many times before.
The m54 uses 138mm rods and custom 13.5:1 pistons 84.5mm. On sunoco 98 octane, 290whp, 310 on elf 110. Eagle rods, supertech springs, custom cams, etc. Oil pump is a 6 bolt custom, ~90psi max. Bearings are all just basic KBs, standard size.
The s52 had 135mm eagle rods, 12.5:1 pistons 86.5mm. 307 rwhp on 98 octane. Same Cat cams as you, locked vanos. Stock oil pump (shimmed to ~90psi). Bearings again just OEM.
10w60 liquimoly or 5w50 redline in the motors.
We used to run ACL bearings, but haven't really bothered lately ... if everything else is working well, then stock bearings are perfectly adequate, though of course race and coated bearings will provide some additional protection.
Member
Sorry I should have clarified. I meant the s52 that had the rod bearing failure. Did you have more information on how or why the bearing(s?) failed. Any pictures? Spun? Was it just one cylinder or multiple showing wear? Lack of oil pressure?
Main and rod bearing clearances?
We've probably talked about it before...last we spoke the engine was pushing oil and you thought you had cracked ringlands?
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