Help: Removing intake manifold [Starter]

[GraphitE21]

Howdy-

The job is to replace the starter on the stock M10 (1981 320i).

With my understanding, and seeing how things look after starting this job, it seems like the best way to go is to remove the intake manifold.

The biggest box I've checked so far is loosening the two nuts to the bolts that secures the starter to the bell housing. Airbox was removed and the WUR has been detached from it's mounting point, hoping that would be all that is needed to be removed as far as having enough space to complete the job. But I'm now seeing how difficult it would be to detach the bracket connected to the front of the starter and imagine it won't get any easier with the removal and replacement of the starter with the current layout.

Since this will be the first time I will be removing the intake manifold, I would appreciate any tips or any words of caution in executing the task. Ideally, this would get done with the least amount of (re)moving parts.

One question I have to begin with is will it be necessary to detach any radiator/water hoses?

Kind regards,
Shawn

[HappyE21]

I don't think its necessary to remove the intake manifold to remove the starter. Its only held in with three bolts, two go through the bell housing and the other bolts into the block. You may get better access at it from underneath the car, there's also a couple electrical connections going to the starter (duh) pretty simple to remove. Radiator should be able to stay in place, although there are some coolant hoses that go into the throttle body, along with vacuum hoses. Try avoiding removing the manifold if you can, its not the easiest thing to do. I just stripped everything out of my engine bay like 3 months ago so its pretty fresh in my head.

I've got a bunch of pictures of how to take everything apart in the engine bay. LMK if you need to see anything else.

image_67223809.jpg
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image_67217665 (1).jpg
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[GraphitE21]

I don't think its necessary to remove the intake manifold to remove the starter. Its only held in with three bolts, two go through the bell housing and the other bolts into the block. You may get better access at it from underneath the car...Try avoiding removing the manifold if you can, its not the easiest thing to do.

Thanks for this perspective, HappyE21! The first pic (image_67223809) you shared is super helpful because it makes it clear how the bracket is situated, which I wasn't clear on because of all the wires, hoses, harnesses and lines underneath the intake manifold obstructing the access/view to the front of the starter. I will take another look and see if I can get better access to the bracket from underneath.

Thanks again for the help!!

Kind regards,
Shawn

[cgifool]

Also don't forget to disconnect the negative battery cable.

[cgifool]

While you're at it, you might want to consider replacing it with the e30 m3 starter, SR440x. It's smaller (and more powerful), much easier to reinstall. I also think you can dispense with the front bracket as well.

[320iAman]

Take the bracket off, remove the 2 bolts to the bell housing ,detach the the Big Air Boot from the intake mainfold, remove the two m6 nuts holding the fuel distributor assembly to the alternator bracket, then loosen the nut on the bottom of the fuel distributor assembly, disconnect the top fuel lines to fuel distributor, now the fuel distributor assembly can be pulled back out of the holes in the alternator bracket and moved forward a couple of inches--the starter can be removed and installed now, as CGI said there are other starters that fit the M10 motor with more power and easier to remove and install.

Here is some picture for reference on a Fuel Distributor assembly I rebuilt a new.

IMG_20220527_085613_972.jpgBig air boot IMG_20220527_091859_752.jpgAssembly very front the bolts attaching to the alternator bracket , Underneath securing nut and bolt of FD AssemblyIMG_20220527_091919_270.jpg


Randy

[DavidF]

Good luck with that "big air boot"...such a PITA to put back in place. Anyone have any tricks to make it easier.

[GraphitE21]

The wife got sick so this job has been put on ice.

Also don't forget to disconnect the negative battery cable.

Yes, I didn't originally mention it but that was the first thing I did. Thanks!

...might want to consider replacing it with the e30 m3 starter...

I did but it was a difficult to find at the time I made the purchase (S38 starter for the E34 M5). Cheers!

Take the bracket off, remove the 2 bolts to the bell housing ,detach the the Big Air Boot from the intake mainfold...

Hey Randy, appreciate you looking out. Thank you for these instructions and the photos. I'll definitely make good use of them. Cheers!

Good luck with that "big air boot"...such a PITA to put back in place. Anyone have any tricks to make it easier.

Thanks for the warning. Hopefully the gods will spare me the pain lol. Cheers!



Thanks again everyone for your help so far!

Shawn

[320iAman]

Big air boot is not that tuff to deal with, put the bottom on first on the fuel distributor assembly then rotate the air boot counterclockwise while pushing down on the side hitting the butterfly valve assemble-the throttle assembly to get it more or less centered, then take a pick or small flat tool like a pick in a " L shape " ( bent it to L shape if you have too) and put in between the upper rubber boot the metal throttle assembly then simply pull it around the round throttle assembly while rotating the whole air boot- a couple of minutes and installed top and bottom, then tightened up the clamps..

Randy

[GraphitE21]

Bracket attaching starter to the block has been removed completely. The difficult part in this was accessing 1 of the 2 10mm nut (one nearest to the block). I picked up a new 10mm ratchet that needed to be longer than 7" so the nut can be removed through the top of the manifold. And thank heavens for having a magnetic pick-up tool for this job!

Next step, to make room to get the old starter out, it appears I will need to follow Randy's advice to loosen the Fuel Distributor Assembly (Fuel Volume Air Flow Sensor 0438120148).

Take the bracket off, remove the 2 bolts to the bell housing ,detach the the Big Air Boot from the intake mainfold, remove the two m6 nuts holding the fuel distributor assembly to the alternator bracket, then loosen the nut on the bottom of the fuel distributor assembly, disconnect the top fuel lines to fuel distributor, now the fuel distributor assembly can be pulled back out of the holes in the alternator bracket and moved forward a couple of inches--the starter can be removed and installed now

Randy,

Any tips when it comes to disconnecting the fuel lines. Messing with fuel lines without much reference makes me nervous. Thanks!

Shawn

[320iAman]

Have a rag handy and use 1/4 ratchet with 10 mm socket or 10 mm open end wrench on the top 4 fuel lines going to the fuel injectors-turn wrench counterclockwise and remove the banjo bolt-there is is copper sealing washer on each fuel line-1 top and 1 bottom of the fuel line-keep these and put back in when done-as you untwist the banjo bolt-use the rag to sop up the fuel in the line-the banjo bolts are all identical.. No worries doing this, I've done this a hundred times..

Randy

[GraphitE21]

Have a rag handy and use 1/4 ratchet with 10 mm socket or 10 mm open end wrench on the top 4 fuel lines going to the fuel injectors-turn wrench counterclockwise and remove the banjo bolt-there is is copper sealing washer on each fuel line-1 top and 1 bottom of the fuel line-keep these and put back in when done-as you untwist the banjo bolt-use the rag to sop up the fuel in the line-the banjo bolts are all identical.. No worries doing this, I've done this a hundred times..

Randy

Awesome - you the man, Randy.

Cheers,
Shawn

[GraphitE21]

704638[/ATTACH]Assembly very front the bolts attaching to the alternator bracket , Underneath securing nut and bolt of FD AssemblyIMG_20220527_091919_270.jpg


Randy

2507108D-5130-4034-8E6D-974C37445286.jpeg

How do you access the underneath securing hardware for the fuel air flow assembly?! Is it by removing the big boot that allows access under the manifold?

Cheers!
Shawn

[320iAman]

Remove the air filter box assembly to get at it, use 10 mm wrench to loosen the nut and then take off with fingers.

Randy

[GraphitE21]

Remove the air filter box assembly to get at it, use 10 mm wrench to loosen the nut and then take off with fingers.

Randy

Yes, air box assembly was one of the first things I removed. Initially it seemed extremely difficult to access the 10mm nut but ended up not being too bad with ratchet wrench. But man, with that tight space, it’s gonna be tough getting that nut back on. Anyway, still working on moving the air flow assembly out of the way. Thanks Randy.

Cheers!
Shawn

[320iAman]

Put the nut back on and unscrew it till its at the very end of the threaded bolt, I believe it fits in a V or U shaped piece and drops in once the front two threaded bolts are inserted into the alternator bracket, then tighten it up. You may have to insert the front two threaded bolts just barely in the alternator bracket holes to get the threaded bolt with nut at the end to drop in precisely.

Randy

[epmedia]

Good luck with that "big air boot"...such a PITA to put back in place. Anyone have any tricks to make it easier.

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[GraphitE21]

Starter is in (SR441X). I ended up deciding on loosening the intake manifold to help ease the task of moving the fuel air flow assembly. Some coolant leaked out of the port that shares the same gasket piece with the intake mani. Nonetheless, when it came time to pull out the original starter, I found myself needing to lift the manifold an inch or two to get enough clearance, so in my experience, it seemed it only made sense to loosen it. Extensions and a U joint adapter are key; so is the unsung hero in the magnetic pick up tool. The pick up tool was super helpful in putting back on the nut and washer to the top bolt that holds the starter to the block.
IMG_2631.jpg

I am now in the middle of troubleshooting the wiring for the new starter. I made the mistake of assuming the wiring from the original starter would be the same for the new one. With the start signal wire connected to the male spade connector on Terminal 30, I went to start it up for the first time, and the starter ended up producing a whining/winding up sound resulting in no start. With some research between here and bmw2002faq, it appears i will need to create an adapter that will allow me to connect the original start signal (black yellow wire) that has a female spade connector to Terminal 50's round eyelet connector on the SR441X. Randy happened to cite this information here: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...=sr441x+wiring
There is actually a male spade connector at Terminal 50 which I tried but it did not produce any kind of results.
IMG_2636_edited.jpg
One thing I didn't notice any discussion or any references to, is whether the two electrical cables (one of which is red) that shared the same post/connector on the original starter's solenoid are supposed to be handled any differently for the SR441X. All photos I've come across of the SR441X on a M10 have only one electrical cable attached to the solenoid. I am currently assuming they are supposed to share Terminal 30 on the SR441X.

[320iAman]

Battery wire(red +) goes to start solenoid top bolt

Battery red wire goes to the top bolt and nut( wire 30),,,Wire 50 goes to the S terminal,, R terminal is generally not used with electronic ignition. S terminal(wire 50) is larger than R terminal on solenoids
59e8cd1218352_SR-441xconnections.jpg.b593a45691b128675a4d7a1b4de62782.jpg on 2002IMG_6191-1147x860.jpg S terminal #50 start wire is on the bottom,, 2 wire hookup, none are shared.

Randy

[GraphitE21]

Battery wire(red +) goes to start solenoid top bolt

Battery red wire goes to the top bolt and nut( wire 30),,,Wire 50 goes to the S terminal,, R terminal is generally not used with electronic ignition. S terminal(wire 50) is larger than R terminal on solenoids

Randy

Hey Randy,
Apologies if I wasn't clear about the 'two electrical cables' in question.
Here is the original setup:
IMG_2793.jpg
What is the cable that shares the same post as the Battery wire(red +)? I assume they are supposed to go the same way on the new starter...

Here is the new starter setup when I tried to start for the first time which resulted in only getting a winding noise from the starter. I discovered afterwards the start signal wire (in this pic) is on the wrong connector:
IMG_2788.jpg

As mentioned above, I will be creating an adapter that will allow me to connect the original start signal (black yellow wire) that has a female spade connector to Terminal 50's round eyelet connector on the SR441X

Cheers,
Shawn

[GraphitE21]

Hey Randy,
Apologies if I wasn't clear about the 'two electrical cables' in question.
Here is the original setup:
IMG_2793.jpg
What is the cable that shares the same post as the Battery wire(red +)? I assume they are supposed to go the same way on the new starter...

I believe I got my answer from here: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-Starter-Motor

Going to connect the new adapter tomorrow. Fingers crossed!

Cheers!
Shawn

[320iAman]

Yes the start wire no 50 goes on the S terminal,, the bottom connector in the picture.IMG_6191-1147x860.jpg, the top connector is the R terminal-generally for points and ballast resistor ignition systems, yet they still have wire no 50 to connect up as well.

The bottom S side on some of these starters have a male spade connector that fits the 6.3mm female spade connector on wire no. 50 so its just plug it in.

Randy

[GraphitE21]

Still no start. No sound, nothing.

I created a male spade to eyelet adapter to connect the start wire to the Terminal 50 post but still no go. Now I am wondering a few things: was it the starter to begin with? did I damage the new starter (solenoid) by initially having the start wire connected to incorrect terminal (where it made a whining/winding up noise)?
But the old starter was exhibiting all the signs that it was dying so I am pretty sure it was the issue.
Anyway, since I am on time constraint now, I may have to take the E21 to the specialist after this weekend.
I will research how to test the solenoid/starter to see if the new one installed is not working.

[320iAman]

It could be the start solenoid is toast, I was reading about these on 2002 forums and someone else hooked it up wrong and the solenoid got cooked, put in a new solenoid and worked like a charm.

Randy

[GraphitE21]

Thanks Randy.

Ordered new bosch solenoid. Still annoyed with myself for ruining a perfectly good one. I haven't looked into yet, but I am hoping I can replace the solenoid without having to remove the starter (from the engine). If so, I will be even more annoyed about my haphazard mistake.

Cheers,
Shawn