The E36 wiring diagrams may be close, but not close enough to tell him what fuses or relays to check on the E39. They will give only a rough idea of how the general schematics should look, but given that Jason is halfway across the country from me, I want to be able to help him know what to look for specifically. ie. "check this fuse, check this relay"
Wedophones as you indicate does not have the E39 diagram for this engine
And TIS only has diagrams for MS42 and MS43 whereas Jason's car is an MS41
I am not arguing either I just want to help him sort this out. I have helped him diagnostically get to this stage and told him to get INPA setup to check for codes, but now with INPA not communicating with this car (and the weird fast flashing CEL) this failure to communicate to the DME seems to me to be the biggest red flag. The car was running at some point - but also of note, at some point the OBD2 connector was communicating properly and he was able to read codes through it although now he can no longer do so
All I really want is the diagram for the DME power supply - perhaps you could share that portion of it, or possibly just tell him what fuses and/or relays to check to verify the DME is getting proper power. It may be a faulty DME, but for me the first step will be to verify it is getting power especially given the fact that it has communicated intermittently. That to me is what is most odd, is that it did run at some point and also communicated at some point but is not doing so now. To me that is the first question to be solved
However I could be way off base so if it would help you assist us further then Jason by all means please pull a plug and test it with the method dirtracer has described
Going into my TENTH YEAR of providing high quality reproduction BMW fabrics!
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lol , I need all the help I can get ! lol
Both of you guys are awesome and I soooooo appreciate the awesome help !
I’ve been digging for wiring diagrams .
I also have been on my own , diagnosing spark or anything on this car , unfortunately .
This car is meant to be my son’s first car , but he has no interest in helping , unfortunately . ☹️
Same kind of goes for my daughter and definitely my wife . lol
This electric stuff is new to me , obviously . lol
Thank you !
Last edited by Jason5driver; 05-17-2022 at 12:20 AM.
Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner
At least you chose a 5 series so when it leaves your son stranded he will be comfortable when waiting for a tow truck
Going into my TENTH YEAR of providing high quality reproduction BMW fabrics!
PRICE CUT on ALL FABRICS
Offering the best prices on the best quality reproduction fabrics!
From Alldata:
Ignition switch powers fuse 5 in engine fuse carrier (in E-box at right rear of engine compartment). This powers the coils.
Fuse 1 (full time hot) in same fuse carrier powers pin 86 (activation side) of DME relay
Fuses 2,3,4 in this fuse carrier also go to DME
Fuse 109 (in trunk, right side) 80Amp, powers pin 30 of the DME relay
DME relay has one red/white wire, two red wires and one brown
Fuse 107 powers the secondary air relay. WARNING: DO NOT SWAP ANY OTHER RELAY INTO THIS POSITION!
Fuel pump relay (right side of luggage compartment) uses a red/white wire, a black/violet wire, a red/violet wire, and a white/blue (output to fuel pump)
Fuse 14 goes to a pin marked "ignition" on the DME diagram
Last edited by bmwdirtracer; 05-17-2022 at 09:49 AM.
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
Looks like I have some homework to do ... lol . Thank you so much !
One thing I noticed last night , I disconnected and re-connected the wire harness under the cabin filter (DME box) .
I also removed the round pin port cap by the abs module , and reinstalled that as well , just to make sure everything was in-place correctly .
I thought I would try , yet again , to read the codes with my simple code reader on the OBD2 port under the dash .
I tried putting the key in position 2 , but the key spun backwards 1 full rotation , then I felt the key engage correctly to put it in position 2.
I noticed the Check-Engine-Light was consistently illuminated (on all the time) when the reader was plugged in , and I was able to get the the reader to work , without saying "Error" .
The reader showed no codes .
So , I tried starting the car , but it only cranked .
I am wondering if there's a loose connection somewhere ?
Or , there's a short somewhere ?
Or , could the a bad ignition switch be causing no power to the DME to communicate ?
Last edited by Jason5driver; 05-17-2022 at 02:43 PM.
Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner
The ignition switch is definitely a known failure item on this car and other BMWs of this era. It does feed fuse 5, which powers the coils.
However: check for spark. This is pretty much step 1 in diagnosing a crank/no start.
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
Was there a post deleted , that had the DME diagram ?
Also , I don’t see fuse 109 in the trunk …
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...lDbWNuRmVRWVl3
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...lDbWNuRmVRWVl3
Last edited by Jason5driver; 05-17-2022 at 08:32 PM.
Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner
And ….. there’s NO spark …. lol
EF7494F8-D317-45BE-B41D-F3E86A6C17E5.jpg
Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner
I'd be concerned with the missing DME signal and potentially it not being booted up.
Is the fusible link intact?
-Abel
- E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
- 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
- 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
- 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
- 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
- 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
- 2016 Mini Cooper S
Last edited by Jason5driver; 05-18-2022 at 01:29 PM.
Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner
fuse 109 is an 80 amp mega fuse. It will live in the green plastic box with the white cover in the right rear of the trunk. Open the side panel cover, and look forward towards the wheelwell.
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
That is the E-box. The five fuse panel holds 1-5 mentioned above. I can't tell for sure, but it looks suspiciously like water has been in that e-box. I'd open up the latch on the DME and see how the pins look on both sides. Any of them green or corroded or missing? Also look down into the e-box and see whether there's evidence of water below.
Now that you know you have no spark, you can quit worrying about the fuel. The DME isn't trying to start the car.
(To open the DME plug/latch, pull upwards on the silver metal hinge/clasp which will rotate and pull the plug upwards.
Last edited by bmwdirtracer; 05-18-2022 at 02:42 PM.
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
Last edited by Jason5driver; 05-18-2022 at 08:32 PM.
Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner
If Abel or BimmerBreaker have additional suggestions, absolutely follow them.
Meanwhile, though: Put a battery charger or maintainer on the car, so we don't end up draining the battery while looking for the answer.
Then, turn the ignition, and then proceed to test both sides of those five fuses in the ebox relay pack. (Make sure both ends of all five fuses are showing 12+ volts)
Then, shut off the ignition.
See all those red wires in the ebox? They're pretty much all 12 volts....which means you can't accidentally hit them with a tool while working in this area - unless you disconnect the negative cable of the battery, first. Might be a good idea? Disconnect your charger before doing this.
Then, go undo the latch on the DME main plug, as mentioned above, and pull the plug upwards. Look for signs of moisture or corrosion or green. (The transmission computer also lives there; it will have a thinner plug and less pins than the DME) Wouldn't hurt to check that plug too - both sides, also.
Look down deep into that e-box: See any signs of water having been there before?
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
I got INPA to work !
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMm_VKwRKFynmWhAiwie_g2CFBzWo0UeqpBiW-Tb5aDqmm5mEOF39H03ADpRyJ9ig/photo/AF1QipMR2v9NQTTbY9-yKLIR0InpReJ8wsp9pUrwUXU4?key=aFQ4WXFJMENVZUZhU0g3 QVZDSmlDbWNuRmVRWVl3
C5725C34-F69D-4045-9209-7E446B46ABE9.jpg5A7CA4AD-EF5E-4935-B8FF-8A03B4E9736E.jpgC4A64C7E-A4D1-403B-A49B-F8390FCFA472.jpg04284744-E372-41AA-A98A-89F648DDB960.jpg5F384D92-2DB0-4974-9B28-3875FB52B5A8.jpg
Last edited by Jason5driver; 05-19-2022 at 01:54 AM.
Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner
Last edited by Jason5driver; 05-19-2022 at 01:59 AM.
Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner
Since you have DME booted and loaded, then it's not a power supply issue.
Check engine rpm as you crank the starter. If it stays at 0 in diag, replace then crankshaft position sensor with a good brand sensor.
-Abel
- E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
- 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
- 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
- 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
- 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
- 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
- 2016 Mini Cooper S
Your alternator is toast! It might have killed something important, when the system was running at over 18 volts.
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
Looks like it saw 21V at one point... ouch
Going into my TENTH YEAR of providing high quality reproduction BMW fabrics!
PRICE CUT on ALL FABRICS
Offering the best prices on the best quality reproduction fabrics!
Your alternator is toast! It might have killed something important, when the system was running at over 18 volts.
That said,yes, absolutely see whether you see rpms on INPA when cranking.
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
I was out of town for the past few days , sorry .
The battery was drained quite a bit , so I hooked up a charger .
So , that means there’s a draw somewhere …
I have no idea how to find it .
I couldn’t check the rpm’s on Inpa , because no power .
The alternator is a Bosch , but I can only find the OEM bmw regulator for $450 . lol
7ACADDA1-D196-4F70-ACBB-CDE01C70D8B1.jpg
I did find some suspicious wiring out back by the tail light ..
I looks like water was getting in through the tail light gasket ?
I also pulled the relay bracket , to see what wires go to the back of each relay .
I think the first relay (left in the picture) is for the fuel pump , because of the white/purple wire , which is the same as on the fuel pump plug .
Last edited by Jason5driver; 05-24-2022 at 01:56 PM.
Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner
Full tilt list price for a brand new Bosch alternator for your car is $480; any shop can order one from WorldPac. FCP Euro has thia alternator, brand new, for $286.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-alternator-al0703n
That said, you need to find the electrical drain issue, and there's only about a 5% chance it's the alternator.
Tracing an electrical drain is difficult, especially without a precision amp-clamp, and experience, and preferably a friend.
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
Thanks Chris !
I will try to just replace the voltage regulator , depending on the condition of the bearings .
Usually that's what fails on these alternators .
Finding someone to help is another issue ...
Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner
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