Exploding Fans ... how bad is this problem really?

[35nhma]

dont clip a stock blade these 3d cuts are very difficult to get accurate. it will be out of balance, and your cuts have a high chance of creating jagged edges and small cracks that will run. all of the ridged plastics kind of act a bit like cast iron in crack propagation. think gram crackers not toast. i think your making the correct decision in your case staying stock. the diesel fan has been used by many over the years, it might be the most common fan there was alot of crap can e36's produced.


dont forget about the lower plastic mounts that go to the frame rails. the upper clips push down on these, if these wear and move around the entire radiator assembly would lower.

Smart, re balancing the fan. Do you have a part number for the diesel fan? The leading edges being connected sounds brilliant. Curious to look into that.

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You can use a 318i fan or a diesel fan for more clearance. For the 318i, I think you need a different fan clutch. Can’t recall on the diesel blade. I have run both but it has been a long time. I would not clip a stock blade.

For you, it seems best just to buy high quality stock parts. If any upgrades, do the Stewart pump. I bought one in 2006. Still using it.

Thanks. Good ideas!

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Maybe we are not going through Shogun’s 100 point inspection before each drive?

[35nhma]

What I find interesting is that this whole exploding fan situation is almost nonexistent in markets outside US.

I understand that euro cars have different radiators, maybe the mounts are more secure? Are your water pumps garbage too? Maybe the motor mounts are better?

Are you currently living in the EU or the US? Where do you buy parts / research euro part numbers?

[scoobiedoo2029]

I understand that euro cars have different radiators, maybe the mounts are more secure? Are your water pumps garbage too? Maybe the motor mounts are better?

Are you currently living in the EU or the US? Where do you buy parts / research euro part numbers?

realoem.com

then search the part numbers into venders websites or search engines. you can also look up a part numbers applications to see what other cars have parts your looking for. this might become a necessary skill as parts slowly become scarcer.


i think the price of upmarket euro cars and inspection and Maintenace standards in Europe have alot to do with it.



11522243303

Fan 7 blade

D=420MM

From:10/01/1989To:-Weight:0.646 kgPrice:$71.15Part 11522243303 was found on the following vehicles:

• 3' E30   (04/1985 — 05/1993)
• 3' E36   (01/1991 — 08/2000)
• 3' E46   (07/1997 — 09/2001)
• 5' E34   (07/1987 — 06/1996)
• 5' E39   (04/1995 — 12/2003)
• 7' E38   (07/1995 — 07/2001)
• X5 E53   (01/2000 — 09/2003)

[samy01]

I understand that euro cars have different radiators, maybe the mounts are more secure? Are your water pumps garbage too? Maybe the motor mounts are better?

Are you currently living in the EU or the US? Where do you buy parts / research euro part numbers?

Water pumps are mostly ok. I don't think we have that plastic water pump breaking problem to that extent. Or maybe they're all replaced by now so I don't hear about it anymore. I think BMW cut costs in many places that we don't really know about when they sold the e36 in the US. I often check things US owners report to have failed early on their cars, and on my e36 it has often seemed to not be the case.

I live in EU. I only use this website to look for part numbers. I haven't seen anyone here using it and I don't know why. It's in english and it doesn't look like it's from 1993 like realoem.com

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog

[35nhma]

Water pumps are mostly ok. I don't think we have that plastic water pump breaking problem to that extent. Or maybe they're all replaced by now so I don't hear about it anymore. I think BMW cut costs in many places that we don't really know about when they sold the e36 in the US. I often check things US owners report to have failed early on their cars, and on my e36 it has often seemed to not be the case.

I live in EU. I only use this website to look for part numbers. I haven't seen anyone here using it and I don't know why. It's in english and it doesn't look like it's from 1993 like realoem.com

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog

good information! i'm pretty sure realoem doesn't have the euro cars in it's database. the fan and clutch mechanisms are the same for US and EU ... but the water pump isn't even close to similar. this is a diagram for the euro S50B30:

jzx.png

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realoem.com
11522243303 Fan 7 blade

awesome. i'm going to look into this. looks like it's a mod that's reasonably popular. i found this kit at ECS. the fan definitely has a different profile. i wonder how much air it is designed to move. intriguing idea though ....

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble...xoCbpQQAvD_BwE

[35nhma]

Some threads about the euro 7 blade fan:

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...g-cooling-fans
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...uro-Diesel-fan
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...hes-amp-Blades

Many of people speculate about why the closed design is not spec'd on the M3 ... but no one has a real answer. someone gets close by suggesting that the "ducted" fan (closed in a ring) starts to perform worse at high RPM. way beyond my paygrade. however, the 745 & 760 & X5 from early 2000's use a ringed fan: fcpeuro. There also seem to be clearance issues. the slim diesel fan doesn't even get within the radiator shroud, apparently. i have my doubts it draws much from the full radiator core. This raises more questions than it answers, for me. Still leaning toward stock.


Here is a thread which explores the same question i have proposed originally, yet with the 540 V8:
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...g-cooling-fans

[35nhma]

On one of those other threads someone incorrectly suggests the Euro S50 has a different fan from the US S50 ... thanks to Samy01 I can see they are the identical part numbers, at least for this build date.

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...ling#1712058_1
http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...n_fan_coupling

Even at the end of the model run in late 1998 the fan & clutch are the same:
http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...n_fan_coupling

[pbonsalb]

Some threads about the euro 7 blade fan:

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...g-cooling-fans
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...uro-Diesel-fan
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...hes-amp-Blades

Many of people speculate about why the closed design is not spec'd on the M3 ... but no one has a real answer. someone gets close by suggesting that the "ducted" fan (closed in a ring) starts to perform worse at high RPM. way beyond my paygrade. however, the 745 & 760 & X5 from early 2000's use a ringed fan: fcpeuro. There also seem to be clearance issues. the slim diesel fan doesn't even get within the radiator shroud, apparently. i have my doubts it draws much from the full radiator core. This raises more questions than it answers, for me. Still leaning toward stock.


Here is a thread which explores the same question i have proposed originally, yet with the 540 V8:
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...g-cooling-fans

If you need to extend a fan closer to the radiator core, you can either buy a fatter radiator like the Zionsville fat boy or the Mishimoto xline z3 s54m of you can buy a fan extender nut from Dinan or rms. The extender nuts were used with superchargers driven by a 3rd crank pulley.

Obviously there is a lot to think about and actually doing a good job improving flow costs more than most think. Fresh stock parts were fine for a decade when these cars were new.

[scoobiedoo2029]

any wing does wierd stuff at its tips where the low pressure and high pressure areas interact and kinda get in a fight. and flip all over the place., looking at the ring on the 7 blade fan the back edge of the fan blade is not surrounded by the plastic ring. so that ring isnt touching the area where the air is exiting the fan blade. every ducted prop ive ever seen has a giant ring around it makes it look like a airliner.


i think bmw used this part of the crap can models that would be used and abused. but did represent the vast majority of bmw's on the road.

[gc325is]

With such an old car the replacement parts list may be combined by now with US and European parts. Or BMW USA eliminated the known bad parts

This site list 3 types of blades 410 mm 420 mm and a hot climate but it is the same part number now for 2 of them .


http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...16#11521712058

[blckstrm]

RealOEM has always had euro market cars in there. And if you click on a part number it will show you which venal models it was available in, and if you click on that or will tell you in detail (including by market) where it was found.

[shogun]

yes, realoem + bmwfans show all the individual part numbers by country version. my E32 750iL Japan spec has a lot of those parts, hot climate version includes a larger visco fan, different pulley for the fan for higher fan speed, larger engine oil cooler and so on, all is listed under National version Japan L807A , here we go: Search result: L807A National version japan http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...option?s=L807A

[35nhma]

I ended up replacing my fan for the hell of it. I destroyed the old one out of curiousity: you can see it here.

In my opinion, integrity was totally acceptable. I did not compare it to the new part (for obvious reasons) so I have no definitive answer about how much it might have degraded over time.

[gc325is]

35nhma They snap off easier when still on the car. I could press them off with 20 lb of force. Why do you think it is OK when 3 broke in the same stress area right where the fan flexes while spinning? The blades should only bend not crack off.

Here is a BMW design theory.. Why put 11 blades on a fan? .. when one breaks there is no possibly combination or way to remove fans blades to balance it again since they are all off set. The fan is doomed to self destruct if you do not notice the problem, as it will continue to vibrate more until all are broken off. If you never see 5000 rpm on a hot day the explosion may not happen.

I should add for me the water pump also went out or did the water pump go out then the fan exploded by hitting the radiator?

My 2nd fan failure was when one blade broke off and @ 2000 rpm, a noticeable vibration started. Thats when I broke off the remaining blades to keep the car going. They were easy to snap off

[tiMASTER]

I’ve not had a fan explode but thought I’d throw my data into the pool here.

I was replacing my hood struts and doing a typical once-over of “stuff“ under the hood, I found the fan to be wobbly front to back. I installed a new clutch and I sound like a truck taking off from a stop light, so I know it’s working.

But what was odd is that when I went to replace it, the fan checked perfectly fine for front-back “slop”. It seemed fine. BUT, rotating the fan I found the “bad spot” where the fan moved fore-aft easily.

I know motor mounts and water pumps get blame but the clutch may also be a contributor here. And it’s a really neat failure, not behaving the same through 360 degrees.

Note my fan is around 100k miles old, and still had remnants of the sticker in one blade. It was new when I did my engine swap.

[scoobiedoo2029]

you got lucky with storage conditions of your car 35nhma, my storage of my own car didnt turn out as well, and im paying for it now, might have been cheaper to have it stored....... looks like you might have found quite a good car

[35nhma]

you got lucky with storage conditions of your car 35nhma, my storage of my own car didnt turn out as well, and im paying for it now, might have been cheaper to have it stored....... looks like you might have found quite a good car

ha, well that's good to hear ... because i've certainly had my issues.

i bought it sight unseen with no service records (!) i think it sat in a garage for the last ten years and basically didn't move. the fuel system was likely gummed up and all of the hoses were shot. most of the problems didn't develop till i put about 500 miles on it. since then i have about $10-12k into replacing stuff and the list goes on. i've got $600 of bushings for the rear end on their way right now.

paint is all original and clearcoat is in decent shape minus some scratches. no rust.

just gotta keep the squeaks at bay

what problems developed with yours? parts like the fan disintegrating?

-hank

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I’ve not had a fan explode but thought I’d throw my data into the pool here.

But what was odd is that when I went to replace it, the fan checked perfectly fine for front-back “slop”. It seemed fine. BUT, rotating the fan I found the “bad spot” where the fan moved fore-aft easily.

I know motor mounts and water pumps get blame but the clutch may also be a contributor here. And it’s a really neat failure, not behaving the same through 360 degrees.
.

good to know that you need to test the full 360 revolution on the clutch. i just assumed my clutch was ancient because everything on the car was, so i replaced it withouth thinking.

after the new clutch is installed i am cleaning the old part and it turns out it was replaced in 2010 along with the water pump. so maybe they found a fault with the clutch at that point. they replaced almost nothing on the vehicle, so i assume they had a reason.

now i have another decent fan clutch sitting around ...

[tiMASTER]

I should mention I have a Stewart water pump on my engine, so I don't expect that to fail.

[xxxxxxx]

Nearly 20 years over ownership and no explosions yet.

[tiMASTER]

24 for me. I ordered my car in 1998. But, I changed to the S52 in 2001, so that has only been 19 years or so.

[spyderg0d]

I've had several customers cars fans explode. Almost everyone was diagnosed with bad trans or engine mounts, and usually a manual car.

I run a race trans mounts but stock engine mounts, So i opted for the single electric fan conversion on a large volume radiator to possible quall the negative outcomes of the mechanical fan.

[RickZ3]

I have a 2000 2.8 Z3 120,000 miles and the mechanical fan has lost a blade twice now. The first time with the original fan blade while driving. We checked the motor mounts, which although original seem fine and there was no play in the water pump. Put on new fan and fan clutch. Started the car and a blade broke off the new fan, must have hit the shroud / fan housing. Given the discussion above, not sure if replacing the motor mounts and water pump would make a difference. Seems like might be best to remove the mechanical fan and just use the electrical fan (which goes on with the A/C and at higher temps, I think) and maybe install a second electrical fan to the fan housing. Everyone seems to be using a Spal 16" for that purpose. What gets confusing is the wiring of the replacement Spal fan. Any advice appreciated.

[gc325is]

Unfortunately there are a lot more variables in the production of the fan than what we have listed here. Is it EU cars or only US cars? Manual or auto transmission. Maybe it is the build line right drive VS left drive. Maybe it is the installer Clause is left hand while Carl is right. Then Clause uses his hands while torquing the bolt and Carl use a tool to hold the fan. One installer might leaves a micro crack. The US has meter highway entrance ramps during commute hours. Thus 2x a day I am basically doing a 0-60 run to get on the high way because when I drive the road are still flowing at 60 up and it is a short ramp 60 yards. That repetitive high stress can cause the blades to fail faster.

[samy01]

The problem is almost unknown in EU E36 communities. Actually, a lot of things US owners report to fail due to age or wear don't seem to apply for EU e36.

I've always wondered, if an US e36 factory built cars with parts supplied from the US, so the fan would be US, in comparison to a german built e36 which would have a german made fan, or if BMW shipped all parts from the EU to all it's factories, so any e36 should contain the same parts quality.

[tiMASTER]

I doubt it is parts source related. BMW has been global sourcing for decades and they use one part across all cars that share the part.

M3 fan for E36 is the same part number and same supplier(s) globally. It is less expensive to do this than have different suppliers around the globe supplying locally only. US built cars have always had parts from all over the world. Most (if not all) auto manufacturers globally source now.