Hard to get into gear at a stop light

[ewrjontan]

So I replaced my clutch (f1 racing and saves flywheel) along with my tranny detent pins over 2 years ago on my 95 M3. It’s a track car so I rarely drive it outside of a few nice days and a few track events. Anyways, it runs great other than the fact that sometimes it’s hard to get in gear.

This happens sometimes on start up; if I am in gear it’s kind of hard to get into neutral or if I am in neutral it is kind of difficult to get into 1st or reverse. Once I get going everything shifts perfectly fine. However if I pull up to a stop light, I can push the clutch in and get into gear, go to neutral etc. however, if I release the clutch (in neutral, still stopped) then push the clutch in and try to go into first to get going again, I am met with some resistance. Sometimes I can get into gear if I just keep wiggling and pushing but usually I have to release the clutch and keep trying.

The car has been doing this since I changed the clutch. I have noticed that while st a stop light, clutch out and in neutral, if I push the clutch in, then give a little rev, I can go into gear just fine and get going.

Any ideas? Transmission fluid is fresh, clutch as far as I know is bled properly (done it multiple times) and I don’t see any leaks. Could my slave be failing? I believe it is original and the car has 155K.

Thanks.

edit:
I always forget to mention, that this issue also occurs when say I am moving and approaching a stop light. I will start pressing on the brakes and eventually clutch-in. Once I get closer to the light and come to a complete stop, I will try to shift into neutral and sometimes (more often then not) it will be difficult to shift out of gear and into neutral. It doesn't take much force, but definitely more resistance than normal. Once I do get into neutral, it is easy to go back into gear without releasing the clutch pedal. If I go into neutral, release the clutch, then clutch back in, the problem comes back and it's difficult to shift into gear.

I also noticed today that upon starting my car on my lunch break (parked in gear, in reverse) it took a lot of force to get into neutral. This happens sometimes, really not that often, but definitely happens; happens in first gear too.

[Braymond141]

Aftermarket clutch stop? Remove it.

I don’t see any mention of the NECESSARY wear items during a clutch job. Pivot pin, fork and guide tube. All of these are critical must-do when replacing a clutch. The fork and pin directly affect mechanical travel and the guide tube ensures smoothness of the throwout bearing sliding action.

[ewrjontan]

Sorry. All of that stuff was replaced as well. Brand new sachs throw out bearing, genuine bmw fork and guide as well as an aftermarket stainless steel pivot pin from I believe rally road iirc.

No after market clutch stop. I got one from uuc when I first got the car ten years ago and it didn’t fit my car at all so I never actually installed it.

[jayjaya29]

Brass pivot pin is most likely the cause. Brass is not the right material for the application. Stock plastic or steel only.

[aeronaut]

Brass pivot pin is most likely the cause. Brass is not the right material for the application. Stock plastic or steel only.

Yep. Here's mine after only a few years of track only use (low miles).

Screenshot from 2022-04-11 07-44-19.png

[samy01]

fork must-do when replacing a clutch

Why does the fork need replacement?

[ewrjontan]

so I actually just looked through my maintenance records and it turns out it’s a stainless pin, not brass thank god. So we can rule that out.

[zellamay]

" The car has been doing this since I changed the clutch. " So, it's not pin-wear, no matter the pin material. I assume you have a SS clutch line, (stock would produce those exact symptoms). With all you have done you wouldn't miss that one. My guess is that it was never bled properly.

[ewrjontan]

Haha. Actually yeah it’s the stock line 🤡 I was planning on replacing it if I replace the slave.

[jayjaya29]

Change the line and do a good bleed. Should fix the issue.

[RBNetEngr]

I’m not sure if this is a problem with E36, but on my E30, I had two occasions where something like what you describe would happen. I suspected air in the clutch hydraulic circuit, or a faulty clutch cylinder, but replacing them and flushing fluid didn’t correct the issue.

But what DID cause it was the release bearing being shifted into an angled position in the clutch fork, so it didn’t release the clutch properly when depressing the clutch pedal.

It happened twice during my 12 years of driving it. I don’t know if the release bearing was too soft, or if the clutch fork problems, but both times the repair shop said they replaced parts with Genuine BMW parts.

The shop was a well-known quality independent shop (BMW ExcluService in Rockville, MD), and did great work for me.

-rb

[ewrjontan]

I’m not sure if this is a problem with E36, but on my E30, I had two occasions where something like what you describe would happen. I suspected air in the clutch hydraulic circuit, or a faulty clutch cylinder, but replacing them and flushing fluid didn’t correct the issue.

But what DID cause it was the release bearing being shifted into an angled position in the clutch fork, so it didn’t release the clutch properly when depressing the clutch pedal.

It happened twice during my 12 years of driving it. I don’t know if the release bearing was too soft, or if the clutch fork problems, but both times the repair shop said they replaced parts with Genuine BMW parts.

The shop was a well-known quality independent shop (BMW ExcluService in Rockville, MD), and did great work for me.

-rb

Hmmm. Interesting. When this did happen, did you immediately go to get it fixed? Could you not go into gear at all? I would think if it was shifted then it would not work at all until remedied?

[RBNetEngr]

It was a long time ago. It varied in how much it affected the rotation of the transmission at a stop. At times I could press the clutch, wait 5 seconds, and the input shaft would still be turning. It never prevented me from engaging a gear from a stop, but sure made it difficult and concerning (Am I permanently damaging something?)

I think that when it happened, if I depressed the clutch and engaged 2nd or 3rd gear (and keep the clutch pedal pressed) it would stop the shaft spinning and then I could engage 1st gear.

Again, it’s been a long time (20+ years), and my brain is like a cassette tape that sat near a strong magnet for too long…


-rb

[KeysCoupe]

I’ll agree with post #8 and #10 regarding the slave hose and a proper and thourough bleeding of the line. In my case, I had to unbolt the slave from the trans and reposition it to aide in getting the last of the air out.
All the symptoms you have show the clutch is not fully releasing, putting a lot more work on the syncros.
-Donny

[ewrjontan]

Cool, I'll grab a new line and probably just replace the slave anyways.

[aeronaut]

Yep, the bleed is important. You have to bleed the slave removed from the transmission with the slave in the right orientation so the air can escape during the bleed, and it has to be captured so the piston and rod don't shoot across the room on the first pump of the pedal during the bleed. There's of course a special tool you can buy, but I rig up some sort of carpenters clamp or something.

[blckstrm]

so I actually just looked through my maintenance records and it turns out it’s a stainless pin, not brass thank god. So we can rule that out.

I used a factory stainless pivot pin and it didn't fare any better than the brass pin I used. I was shocked to see how mushroomed it was when I did my tranny swap. It had less than 20k on it at the time.

I wouldn't rule it out by any measure.

This is the stainless pin with 18k-ish miles next to a factory plastic pin with 100k.

[aeronaut]

That's kind of amazing and good to know. Glad I used an OEM plastic one a few weeks ago.

[jayjaya29]

Weird, I just looked at my stainless pin and it had no wear after 20k miles.

[ewrjontan]

Yep, the bleed is important. You have to bleed the slave removed from the transmission with the slave in the right orientation so the air can escape during the bleed, and it has to be captured so the piston and rod don't shoot across the room on the first pump of the pedal during the bleed. There's of course a special tool you can buy, but I rig up some sort of carpenters clamp or something.

What's the proper orientation? Bleeder valve facing upwards? I've bled during my brake bleed process with my power bleeder and also tried reverse bleeding (pumping fluid up from the bleeder screw).

[blckstrm]

What's the proper orientation? Bleeder valve facing upwards? I've bled during my brake bleed process with my power bleeder and also tried reverse bleeding (pumping fluid up from the bleeder screw).

I did everything you're doing and more when my brass pivot pin failed. I'd get a cheap borescope from Amazon and see what's going on inside the bell housing. Especially given the wear I saw on my stainless pivot pin. It's far from a cure-all.

[aeronaut]

What's the proper orientation? Bleeder valve facing upwards? I've bled during my brake bleed process with my power bleeder and also tried reverse bleeding (pumping fluid up from the bleeder screw).

Yep, bleeder valve up.

Also, the bentley process is:

(With slave cylinder installed.)
Pressure bleed from the reservoir. (Open bleed valve on slave.)
Close bleed valve on slave, and slowly pump pedal ~10 times.
Remove slave from transmission, point bleed valve up, open, and compress the pushrod fully closed, close bleed valve, and release pushrod.
Repeat until no air.

[ewrjontan]

Awesome, just looked up the whole process; it's been a while and I totally forgot about the bentley manual. Might try to reverse bleed again as well.

[RBNetEngr]

I’ve never removed the slave cylinder to bleed the clutch hydraulic circuit, so it is not necessary to do that.

And even though I use a pressure bleeder for the brakes, I use the two person method to bleed the clutch.


-rb

[Smknkeyz]

I did a reverse bleed on my slave when i recently changed it, using a phoenix systems reverse bleeder. Worked great! Highly recommend.