Trans help?..vibration after overnight trans fluid leak mean torque converter damage?

[jair24611]

Hello all,




I'm looking for an opinion from someone with in-depth auto trans A4S310R (GM 4L60E)) knowledge or who has had the same experience.

I just refreshed the cooling system (for the second time) on my 155k '97 328ic (back-up vehicle), and after a few test-drives, monitoring temps and checking for leaks, felt it was good to go. My wife's car needed wirj, so she took the 328 for her 200mile errand day. 50miles in, she noticed a bit of a vibration.. I guessed the bad roads and aging steering/suspension might have been what she was picking up on. I told her it was probably fine, as I checked over everything not long ago and the components were solid, but to baby it and if whatever she was hearing/feeling got worse to pull over and have it towed home. I didn't hear anything more from her.

When I got home, I test-drove it and very clearly noticed the below:
1. some slight delay in low end torque, almost like trans barely slipping
2. a bit of a different note hum noise when gaining speed (from 20mph onward)
3. a strong vibration through frame and steering, along with a louder coinciding noise when under load above 30mph that quickly got stronger with more speed above 35mph even when coasting.

I brought it home quickly, jacked it up and saw trans fluid had lightly coated (from highway wind) the entire underside of the car from the trans cooler all the way back to the exhaust (by the transmission). I cleaned it up in order to pinpoint the leak and eventually found it was the cooler itself. I went to check the level of the trans fluid to check how much had been lost but the hex head "fill plug" bolt was stripping. I had major shoulder surgery the next morning, so that's where I've stopped.

My question is: Do you think that driving the car, (which only gets driven gently) 150 miles at highway speed, with that issue would have caused damage to the trans/torque converter? Before I buy and install the replacement trans cooler, refill kit (fluid, filters, gaskets, etc...), and deal with the fill plug, I'd like an educated guess on whether I'll be wasting time and money if the trans also needs to be replaced. I know the typical symptoms of low trans fluid are slippage and hard (or no) shifts, which aren't really happening, but I still strongly feel that the vibration has to be related to the trans. I've driven the car regularly prior to the cooling system refresh, with no drivetrain noises/issues, except for a clang from the diff's nonexistent mount bushing when shifting between P,R,and D.

Thanks in advance for the input and taking the time to read! The car is a beaut with the hardtop and I've put some good time into her.

[jair24611]

Hello all,




I'm looking for an opinion from someone with in-depth auto trans A4S310R (GM 4L60E)) knowledge or who has had the same experience.

I just refreshed the cooling system (for the second time) on my 155k '97 328ic (back-up vehicle), and after a few test-drives, monitoring temps and checking for leaks, felt it was good to go. My wife's car needed wirj, so she took the 328 for her 200mile errand day. 50miles in, she noticed a bit of a vibration.. I guessed the bad roads and aging steering/suspension might have been what she was picking up on. I told her it was probably fine, as I checked over everything not long ago and the components were solid, but to baby it and if whatever she was hearing/feeling got worse to pull over and have it towed home. I didn't hear anything more from her.

When I got home, I test-drove it and very clearly noticed the below:
1. some slight delay in low end torque, almost like trans barely slipping
2. a bit of a different note hum noise when gaining speed (from 20mph onward)
3. a strong vibration through frame and steering, along with a louder coinciding noise when under load above 30mph that quickly got stronger with more speed above 35mph even when coasting.

I brought it home quickly, jacked it up and saw trans fluid had lightly coated (from highway wind) the entire underside of the car from the trans cooler all the way back to the exhaust (by the transmission). I cleaned it up in order to pinpoint the leak and eventually found it was the cooler itself. I went to check the level of the trans fluid to check how much had been lost but the hex head "fill plug" bolt was stripping. I had major shoulder surgery the next morning, so that's where I've stopped.

My question is: Do you think that driving the car, (which only gets driven gently) 150 miles at highway speed, with that issue would have caused damage to the trans/torque converter? Before I buy and install the replacement trans cooler, refill kit (fluid, filters, gaskets, etc...), and deal with the fill plug, I'd like an educated guess on whether I'll be wasting time and money if the trans also needs to be replaced. I know the typical symptoms of low trans fluid are slippage and hard (or no) shifts, which aren't really happening, but I still strongly feel that the vibration has to be related to the trans. I've driven the car regularly prior to the cooling system refresh, with no drivetrain noises/issues, except for a clang from the diff's nonexistent mount bushing when shifting between P,R,and D.

Thanks in advance for the input and taking the time to read! The car is a beaut with the hardtop and I've put some good time into her.

[Eric93se]

No ones going to be able to tell you everything is going to be OK lol.

Do the repairs and hope for the best. The trans filter is an envelope so you may have to drill out some rivets to look for excess metal. Be sure to raise the car level when doing the service (I use a bubble on the trans pan).

[shogun]

moved from 1991 - 1999 (E36) E36 Common Problems and DIY Fixes to E36 forum

[jair24611]

-Rephrasing to simplify the question: Has anyone had their automatic trans' (4S310R's/GM 4L60E) torque converter fail on them, and what were the symptoms? My automatic 328ic lost a good bit of trans fluid (amount still unknown), and a vibration that feels drivetrain related then started when getting up past 35mph and under heavy load.

I'm trying to figure out that: if the torque converter is causing a vibration and has been run for a ~100 miles in that state, is it probable that it has been damaged?

[jair24611]

I'm not looking for that.. just trying to put together a best guess.

Here, will rephrase to simplify the question: Has anyone had their automatic trans' (4S310R's/GM 4L60E) torque converter fail on them, and what were the symptoms?

My automatic 328ic lost a good bit of trans fluid (amount still unknown), and a vibration that feels drivetrain related then started when getting up past 35mph and under heavy load. So I'm trying to figure out if the torque converter is causing a vibration and has been run for a ~100 miles in that state, is it probable that it has been damaged?

[shogun]

Signs of a Failing Torque Converter

Loss of Acceleration.

Slipping Between Gears

Vehicle Won’t Shift at All

Transmission is Overheating

Transmission Fluid Leak: Torque converter seals can be damaged easily or get worn out with time, so they are a common source of transmission fluid leaks.

Bad Transmission Fluid: If you check your transmission fluid and notice that it is dark, burnt, milky or filled with debris like metal shavings, then you’ll want to get your transmission serviced.

First of all check the trans fluid level the correct way: http://www.europeantransmission.com/...ansService.pdf

[XnWarden]

I never knew they used a 4L60e in these cars. You can try scanning the code to see if any trans related codes are stored. But unfortunately the only way to pinpoint most transmission failures is to take the transmission apart.

Just my 2 cents but i think your symptom is probably related to something else. No evidence for this, just a gut feeling.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[shogun]

accdg to ETK: 1997 318i E36 Cabrio USA with M44 engine has a Automatic transmission A4S270/310R and that is a GM 4L30-E.

First of all as I already said, check the transmission fluid level, and that the correct way at the correct temperature as per my link above.
Then report back.

[jair24611]

Two months after shoulder repair, finally was able to replace the trans fluid cooler and check/fill the fluid. Then played around and tested some more without being paranoid that I was damaging the trans from low fluid...

Was not too surprised to find out that the strong humming/vibration were not caused by the trans. It seems to be coming from somewhere further back in the driveline.

Two clear symptoms:

1. Loud clang from driveshaft area (hard to see above heat-shield) when shifting into Drive from P-R-N-->

2. The vibration and loud, subwoofer-like hum start at around 40mph... within a half-second of letting off the throttle at a speed higher than 40mph, the vibration disappears only for a split second and then returns. In this case, it seems like the load put on the driveshaft by the engine/trans is causing the initial vibration, and then after letting off the throttle, there's a split-second of smoothness (from torque-free, spinning?) and then the vibration returns (as the diff starts to put torque on the driveshaft from the still rolling wheels @ >40mph?). That sound right?

It is probably one of the common wear items. From the descriptions, anybody know what specifically? ...guibo, center support bearing, u-joint? The car is up at my parents' place, and I'd like to get the part ordered and on the way so I can pull it apart and fix it on the same day I go up there.

Thanks in advance!

[shogun]

to get the complete driveline again into level position, and if the parts were never changed before, I would start with engine mounts>>>giubo>>>center mount>>trans mounts
http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...ension_damper/
http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...iversal_joint/
http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...ox_suspension/
I have seen engine mounts ripped apart, giubo ripped, same with the other parts. These are all wear parts.
Double check the part numbers with your VIN. Check FCP EURO, they have quality parts and maybe sets and lifetime warranty. Alternatives: autohausaz, Pelican Parts, rockauto etc.
CSB pre loading https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...center+bearing

[jair24611]

Thanks for taking the time with all the input; I'll drop the exhaust and heat shield this weekend to get an actual look at the components and report back.

[jair24611]

I dropped the exhaust, pulled the heat-shield, and had my wife shift through gears while I was monitoring the drivetrain from underneath. The guibo and support bearing appeared to be in decent enough shape..felt firm as I pushed on both of them to check for obvious play. Same thing with the U-joints..a bit rusty but not play or signs of major wear.

I did notice a good bit of weeping fluid coming from the diff's driver-side output flange. Also, the very loud clang when shifting from P-R-N-->D seemed like it was coming from the diff as well. I couldn't tell how it was making the noise. Almost thought some bushing was worn to nothing so it would clang against whatever is above it when it absorbed the tension from the driveshaft shifting into Drive. But I couldn't really see anything above it that would generate that noise. Thought maybe something inside?... I can upload the video with the noise if that would help.

Apart from checking the diff fluid, any other suggestions/guesses/ideas on what might be going wrong?

[Eric93se]

99% your diff is super low on fluid. I would do a fluid change, if you have LSD you should use heavier weight oil. Read up on doing the job the bolt is super tight and you need new crush washers.

[whiskychaser]

Late to the party. But the answer to your original question is yes. Driving 150 miles at highway speed when your ATF is low could kill a trans. They don't like heat. But as we don't know if your ATF or diff oil is low, that is going to be a starting point. You also mentioned in your original post that a diff mount is shot so that needs to be ruled out. You have not mentioned wheels bearings but I imagine you have checked them?

[Mike WW]

Same thing with the U-joints..a bit rusty but not play or signs of major wear.

Typically BMW U joints get stiff and notchy long before looseness from wear, and when so worn create vibration, generally more in the lower gears at least early on. The only way to really check them is for the D/S to be disconnected and rotate the joint thru it's range of motion. Ideally it should be smooth, some notchyness is typical, but it shouldn't be very notchy. Hard to describe verbally just how much is too much, just that play is not the usual symptom of worn U joints.

Now I'm not saying it is the D/S, all the other things brought up are valid, especially simply checking fluid levels, just that a cursory inspection of the joints is not a good test.

[jair24611]

Final conclusion: the rear u-joint had a notchy point. It might have appeared to be in decent shape with no play in the bearings or any visible wear/rust/etc, but when removed there was a clear single point where the notching would occur. The used test driveshaft I grabbed looked all rusty but the u-joint was in better/decent condition. The loud clunk when shifting P - R - D, the heavy vibration and noise when above 20mph and that showed up overnight one day, and the drag when cruising at low rpms that had been there for the last ~20k miles are all gone

Thanks for all the help fellas!