It Lives! Project thread for Bronzit '87 325is

[Clio320i]

Been posting in the "What did you do to your E30 today?" thread but now that we have successfully started the engine after doing some work on it, I thought we'd dedicate a whole thread so we can document and you can commiserate with us. Or laugh at us!

BTW I really wanted to use the tapatalk app because it appears to be able to post nice big pics, but I just can't get the app to load any pics from my phone at all. Maybe I have too many pics on my phone? Anyway...

Here's the car. It looks great from 30 feet away! Q400 and I scored this thing on December 8, and it arrived via trailer on Dec. 10. We wanted an original, unmolested 325i or is, and that's what this is! Definitely in need of love and attention. Fortunately we have a lot of that to give...

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How about those balloon tires? The rears are bigger than the fronts, too, so if it weren't for the angle of this particular pic, you could see that it's kinda rocking drag racer stance.

When it rolled off the trailer, it did run and drive, but with a massive coolant leak at the water pump, incredibly loud exhaust leaks all over the place (mmm, throatey sound), idle at like 450rpm, and lots of stumbling and/or not-great things happening at higher revs. Oh and the clutch pedal started sticking to the floor, sometimes. Seller claimed that the timing belt was replaced last year with the blue kevlar timing belt from Gates. But with the water pump leaking like a sieve we had to get in there anyway..

Our very first order of parts was quite exciting, but definitely inadequate as (of course) we kept (keep!) finding more stuff to fix (the Bosch stuff is cap & rotor for my Volvo).

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Looking at the cooling system and deciding what to replace, I wanted to assume that the inexpensive and easily replaced water pump would have been done along with the timing belt, so the first plan was do the coolant hoses. Looking at the lower radiator hose, it appeared to not even GO on this car. It was really weirdly squished over and something like the alternator or a bracket in that area was squishing it! I think I asked about that and one of you kind people suggested we inspect engine mounts. Another thank you for that, because they were both sheared in half, and the engine was sitting about 1.5" down and to the left of where it should be!

So we decided to take on replacing the engine and trans mounts first. A really good friend lent us an engine support bar which made the task several hundred times easier than I think it would have been with just the floor jack, which we also used. One trans mount was broken and the other was just about to go. Very squishy!

Once all that was done, we moved on to radiator hoses and other rubber bits, and chasing obvious vacuum leaks. Here's one:

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That's the upper of the two hoses that go from the throttle body to the brake booster. They were just loose in there, flopping around. We epoxied them back in place on advice of someone here (thank you!).

After replacing the three main radiator hoses and a couple other coolant lines, I went to put coolant back in and oh no! Still a big leak. That's when we realized it was the water pump itself. Sigh, okay. More parts on order... Some wonderful soul made a very helpful writeup about doing the timing belt and it proved an excellent guide. We did not do the cam seal, and when it came to replacing the alternator belt, we ended up putting the (decent) existing one back on because we could NOT get the new one over the pulley! Arrgh. Other fun/stupid things: One of the hex bolts holding the dist rotor on was missing on uninstall; on reinstall of new, we figured out why: no threads in that hole! Also I sheared the left (car's left) bolt holding the upper timing belt cover and engine hoist while tightening. I did everything I could and lost a whole day on *not* getting that bolt pulled out. It's okay, we'll get to those refinements in time.

Interestingly, the car did have a Gates timing belt! Looked to be in reasonable condition, but with nothing but the seller's word, no way to date this belt, and a super leaky water pump, we didn't chance it and installed a new Continental belt.

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Actually, can a Gates belt be dated? There is a number on it but no actual date. I looked this up of course, but Gates only mentions putting such info on packaging, not on actual belt.

Ok so after we got all that done, coolant went back in. We had to find the lower half of the air box as well as an air filter because the car came with only the top half of the box. Thank you, whoever that was on ebay. The lower half of the box arrived with only one clip so we had to order new clips, but until they arrived, Q400 made an excellent ring of 6 zipties to hold the thing together and I kind of want to just leave it that way tbh. What else? Oh, we ordered a NEW turn signal switch from Pelican because the orig was completely shattered, and that reminds me of the stupidest thing of all of this: I lost my keys! This relates to the turn signal switch because you need the key to unlock the steering lock and thus remove the steering wheel, which is critical to replacement of that switch.

Confession time: this E30 came with one key. I had been keeping it on my key ring and then somehow I *LOST* my keys! I have turned the house and all the cars upside down several times to no avail. So we called a local mobile locksmith. Just in time, she showed up yesterday and made a key that works for the ignition but not the doors, and one key works for the ignition and the trunk. And somehow now the passenger door is locked and we can't unlock it or get the inside handle to unlock it. By the way this was the case with the gas filler door weeks ago and I just manually moved the locking pin... something is wrong with the central locking I guess? I am so unfamiliar with stuff like this because my other car is an E21 and my other other car is a '79 Volvo 245 and Q400's other car is a 95 Toyota and NONE of them have any kind of central locking! Unfathomable... but we are into demolishing learning curves, so put it on the list!

All right, anyway, at least we now have an ignition key. Turn signal switch/stalk replaced and we have lighting! Hi beams even work! The engine is buttoned up and has coolant so last night, Q400 started her up and it runs!!! Better than before! I wish I could post a video but you'll have to just imagine as I'm sure you can. It's lopey still but idles nicely and solidly without too much hunting right at 600rpm. Smooth until around 4000rpm, at which point there is stumbling. I think the O2 sensor is disconnected so we could try re-connecting or replacing. The whole exhaust system ends right after the cat so it's still loud af but much less loud than it was.

We really really wanted to go for a drive, but as mentioned earlier, we have no clutch pedal. The clutch disc seems fine; it felt good when I drove it last and the locksmith actually accidentally started it in gear - or started to start it - and it lurched forward perfectly in 1st for a second until the e-brake caught it and she backed off immediately also. So obviously next up is clutch hydraulics. Getting the slave cylinder out was a b*tch today and the bolts connecting the hard line from the master to the flex line to the slave are now soaking in PB blaster.

More to come, this car definitely has a lot to teach us! So far we are really having a great time even in all the rain and cold weather. Nothing like a scrappy E30 that needs *everything* to make a girl really fall in love with her E21 again! <3

[Q400]

I can't add much to Clio's wonderful writeup except to say that l'm not a mechanic by any stretch but l'm learning so much abt this car and wrenching in general. Clio's fearlessness is inspiring. Also l got some original BMW sales brochures and it's hilarious to compare what we have with the ad copy. and to picture the car being built by dudes in white lab coats while we're crawling around a wet driveway hitting things w a hammer

[dj Roo]

BTW I really wanted to use the tapatalk app because it appears to be able to post nice big pics, but I just can't get the app to load any pics from my phone at all. Maybe I have too many pics on my phone?

The Tapatalk app requires a subscription in order to post full size pics or to include more than one photo.

Looks like you’ve got your hands full with this project! I’m looking forward to seeing your progress on it.


dj Roo
‘87 325is, ‘06 Z4

[Clio320i]

l'm not a mechanic by any stretch

lies!

This was a particularly good passage; I think you said something to the effect of "those guys haven't had their cars for very long"

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The Tapatalk app requires a subscription in order to post full size pics or to include more than one photo.

Looks like you’ve got your hands full with this project! I’m looking forward to seeing your progress on it.

Ahh ok, I wondered if maybe that was the case with the app. I'll just keep doing this then. And yeah, we *definitely* have our hands full with this one, not to mention the rest of the stable which includes an E21 (mostly stock 1980 320i), a '79 Volvo 245, a '95 Corolla, and as of last night a '90 Volvo 244. Electronic fuel injection!!!

I think maybe we'll change the oil today while we wait for the PB Blaster to do its thing and for the rest of the clutch hydraulic parts to come in. Decided to just replace everything.

[dj Roo]

I think maybe we'll change the oil today while we wait for the PB Blaster to do its thing and for the rest of the clutch hydraulic parts to come in. Decided to just replace everything.

Keep hitting it with that PB Blaster! I can say from personal experience on two different 30+ year olds cars that spending 2-3 days of hitting every nut and bolt a couple of times each day makes the work so much easier. When I would see the tracking update to shipped I would start spraying the parts so when the new bits arrived the bolts came out easy!


dj Roo
‘87 325is, ‘06 Z4

[Q400]

We had a rotten time bleeding the clutch today (pedal stuck to the floor still) so l think we'll wait till the master cylinder comes in and try some alternate methods? Also we have a popup awning now so it will be slightly drier working on it. Still lots of puddles to crawl in, don't worry

[Clio320i]

Still lots of puddles to crawl in, don't worry

Oregon man, well, specifically, western Oregon in winter. Good thing we are washable!

[richardodn]

You can use a pressure bleeder just like you do for the brakes. Fluid reservoir is shared between them.

[Clio320i]

Yeah, richardodn, we'll probably do that after we replace the soft line and the clutch master, thank you!


And btw r&r on the clutch master is definitely my job because I owe Q400 at least that after we rolled around in the rain on really wet driveway for two days under this car, getting really cold and wet and having all kinds of fun stuff drip into our eyes and whatnot... and then I somehow found this in the attic


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A rare moment of sun whichever day I took that. This was our situation prior - the idea being to avoid rain getting into the brake fluid reservoir:

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Coming up in the world! Or something...

So now today I went ahead and did the OBD-1 diagnostic thing as detailed by Jim Levie in the lovely posts he's made here and at R3VLimited. I got one code, repeated infinitely until I gave up and just turned the key off. it was this one:

1222 Oxygen Sensor Lean/Rich Detect (primary)
If the signal from the O2 sensor indicates a very lean or very rich
mixture for more than 10 seconds, then the computer generates this
code. It could mean a faulty O2 sensor, a problem with another
component, or intake leaks.

Which, like, duh? I am 95% sure the O2 sensor was actually disconnected when we got the car; the exhaust manifold gasket situation was mildly frightening and the pipes right after the cat have been cut off. So I figure there is currently no way for the O2 sensor to actually work at all, if it even does. We'll figure on replacing it and checking all electrical connections in its path. But is it weird that it just gave that same 1222 code and repeated it like 12 times before I gave up and shut it down?

So the plan from here is this:
- replace clutch master and soft line, bleed clutch and make it so we can put it in a gear and also shift gears
- put new tires on (we'll paint the wheels in the process since there is almost no paint on them)
- drive the thing over to the muffler shop and see if they can a) determine if cat is functional and go from there and then b) attach the rest of the exhaust from cat back and then c) replace O2 sensor if needed
- go to DMV and get all that paperwork done and get a plate
- list on BaT with $12,000 reserve! Profit!!!

That's how this all works, right? heh

Seriously tho, I'm an E21 guy and k-jet guy and I know nothing about car computers or diagnostics or anything so the OBD stuff is so new and weird to me. Any thoughts on that in particular (or any of the rest of this, we're really new to this E30) are very very welcome <3

[Clio320i]

Changed oil today. My god that filter was hard to get off. Probably been there since 1997 or something, it looked really old. Sprayed it with PB Blaster and impatiently did not let it sit, just jacked the car up, took off the wheel, and put my ̶j̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶h̶a̶n̶d̶l̶e̶ breaker bar on the filter wrench and even then was only able to turn it, with quite a bit of effort, like 1/4-1/2" several times until it started to get easier. Dented the thing, even.

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Nevermind all that crud! It's what's on the inside that counts, right? The oil that was in there wasn't horrible, but I am quite sure that filter was really old. I put the same oil that I use for the M10 which is Castrol 20w50, dinosaur. And dang it, I never can remember to procure new crush washers for the drain plug. I found one that I decided would suffice, and likely better than the almost completely disintegrated not-even-metal something or other that was there, a copper one probably from back in my air-cooled VW days. Seems fine.

[Q400]

IT DRIVES

finally got the clutch system together and bled (god what a pain) and drove it! Clio320i kindly let me do the honors. lt drove nicely, engine pulls well, good brakes, straight steering. What a relief!

[Q400]

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Bavarian pals in the sunshine

[OMGE30]

Y'all are doing great, excellent service to humanity!

If you ever decide what to do about that front valance, I'd love to know the details as my boy has experienced similar growing pains.

[Clio320i]

Y'all are doing great, excellent service to humanity!

If you ever decide what to do about that front valance, I'd love to know the details as my boy has experienced similar growing pains.

Ah, thank you!

There’s a shop in SoCal that makes fiberglass reproduction air dams so we’re doing that, along with brackets from someone who makes those with a 3D printer. Then we get to fight about what color to paint it!

EDIT: Not SoCal, Ukraine! https://www.e30worldshop.com/ is their website, which is currently down, and oh god I hope they're okay....

[82eye]

save all the bronzits .... there's always paint ..
good job

[Clio320i]

So this car just keeps getting better every time we mess with it, like it really *wants* to get out and move!

Remember those balloon tires? Great for tearing along washboardey gravel roads in the desert, but really awful for our purposes. So last Saturday these showed up:

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They are Toyo Eclipse 195/65/14, original spec size and holy wow, what a difference! It is markedly better: ride height makes sense (with the tall tires I kept wanting to make the seat go closer to the floor wtf), the weight distribution between front and rear is appropriate now (old tires were larger in back), and the power steering question has been definitively answered: we both agree that it is absolutely not needed. We really prefer it as-is without p/s, particularly now with these appropriately sized tires. I am also relieved to scratch that off the list of things to try to fix - we can conserve our energy (read: willingness to be frustrated) for the air conditioning.

Here's how the beast looks now:

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Also, the license plate arrived in the mail! So now it's officially an Oregon car. In keeping with that, this morning we drove it about 25 miles or so in the rain with the wipers going, and this shudder that was happening at lower wiper speed (mostly when on intermittent) totally disappeared. Like I said, this thing just needs to get out and MOVE.

Yesterday we adjusted the valves. It should have been a really easy job, but... I totally understand now why some guys just replace all the fasteners/mounting hardware with every R&R job: old stripped studs/nuts/bolts just suck. We ran into a fair amount of that on the valve cover studs/nuts, and after two trips to parts/hardware stores, we got it to "acceptable but not ideal" and decided we'll get back in there when we can as long as it doesn't leak, and so far, it doesn't leak (oil, anyway... we'll see about air after a smoke test upcoming).

Aside from all that bitching I just had to do, the engine is noticeably smoother and it runs a lot better especially at lower rpms! yay for doing something right. It finally feels like it's supposed to and it's very easy to drive! And
we're totally in love with it, I'll spare you any more gushing as I know you guys wouldn't be here if you didn't already know!

Now that we can safely drive it at highway speeds (didn't want to risk it with those old tires), we've found an interesting rumble that starts at around 40mph or so and seems to mostly go away around 55mph. It's not in the steering wheel at all; feels like wheel bearings to me. It's less pronounced on acceleration, and doesn't change when cornering, so I'm looking at rear wheel bearings first I guess, then will move forward from there.

Question:
The temp gauge seems to sit just above the blue. Prolonged period of idling will send it just a bit higher, but I've never seen it get to the center. Now I know it's a different engine but in the E21 (1.8 M10), I had this same deal for quite a while and after a t-stat replacement with one that either a) worked properly or b) had a higher temp rating or c) both, the gauge now sits solidly right in the center and it seems to me that's where it should be for the M20 as well?
I know this temp gauge works at least somewhat, because when we first got the car I drove it with that massive coolant leak, which drained all the coolant in like 10 minutes, and the gauge did go almost to the red as I was looking for a safe place to pull over. I'm thinking of replacing it with one rated 80C, which apparently is what this car would have come with. Thoughts/opinions?

UPDATE: I just went ahead and put in a new 80C tstat. Gauge reads at 11:30 now and 12:00 after idling a while. Seems to be less rich, too. It's not boggy at low rpms at all anymore! Dang this thing drives easy... don't even have to think about it.

[Q400]

We have decided that when it comes time for paint we will repaint in Polaris Metallic. l've always wanted a silver car! Sorry bronzit fans.

[82eye]

silver is cool. bronzit can look silver in some light. my e30 is lachsilber. i wouldn't mind a color change either. can't afford it at all though.

[Clio320i]

silver is cool. bronzit can look silver in some light. my e30 is lachsilber. i wouldn't mind a color change either. can't afford it at all though.

Lachssilber is a great color too! That would actually be more correct for our 87 - looks like Polaris ended at 1986. F*ck it I love Polaris. And yeah, paint's expensive af, it'll be a while!

[82eye]

Lachssilber is a great color too! That would actually be more correct for our 87 - looks like Polaris ended at 1986. F*ck it I love Polaris. And yeah, paint's expensive af, it'll be a while!

paint it polaris if you like it. actually any color from the bmw palette would work. i've seen cars wearing both updated or backdated paint that looked really well.

[Q400]

215 mile drive today! PDX-Astoria and home via an alternate route. A caravan trip this time with Clio320i's e21, we switched cars a few times. Both cars in peak form except a rough idle on the e30 which we will chase down next. What a treat to have 2 awesome cars running well! Completely different driving experiences but both very satisfying.

[Q400]

Very puzzling phenomenon here: it idles a bit rough and lopey but smooth enough, and is nice and smooth and powerful under throttle, gets decent gas mileage. BUT it appears to be running on 5 cylinders only! l just drove around the block with #3 spark wire disconnected and it ran as it normally does. We've driven it all over like that with great satisfaction, like 1000 miles. Obviously the next step is to look at the injectors, but why does it run so well?

[Q400]

welp

[Q400]

how did this car run at all. how

[dj Roo]

Holy fuel guacamole! That is some nasty accumulated gunk. Might want to look at replacing the fuel filter as well while getting the system cleaned up. I ran a bottle of fuel system cleaner after a filter replacement and it helped get rid of a bog on cold starts and take-off before the engine warmed up. Have to imagine it’s been a long time since your system has been cleaned or serviced with the injectors looking like that.


dj Roo
‘87 325is, ‘06 Z4